Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Any SeeD member or student are far stronger than any G-Soldier, check their Scan, it reveals they are nowhere as strong as any of the SeeD members. The Galbadian Soldiers kicked the Dollet's army asses. Seifer took several G-Soldiers by himself and they were running away near the Communication Tower, no to mention that is the first Disc of the game. Squall is by far the strongest of all the SeeDs. So Indridcold's argument sounds pretty much plausible to me. Squall could take armies by himself.Zack couldn't take an army by himself, if I recall correctly, he was beaten, and it was at the end of Crisis Core.
No, that alone isn't enough to claim Squall can take armies. The simple fact that Seifer fought off a few soldiers, there scans are higher and Squall is a top ranked SeeD does NOT jump to Squall takes out armies by himself. It just doesn't.
Also, Zack technically lost, but he killed everyone except three soldiers.
Originally posted by IndridCold
Say what you want, it is not an unfair assessment. Let me explain a little further. If Cid felt comfortable letting 8 or 9 initiates stop the invasion, it's fair to say it would could have taken less actual SeeD's to do it, say 3 or 4. Concidering Squall is the best of the best bar none, it is not illogical to assume Squall could probably do it himself. I don't see how that's an unfair assessment at all.I'll give you the fact that it is an assumption, however assuming Squall can't do it merely because it has never happened is a bit naive given his track record. That would be like me standing in front of a speeding train and you assuming I'm going to live through it because it's never happened before.
Poor example I know, but I think you understand my point.
You are just guessing with those numbers though. That fight was the last test before becoming a SeeD, right? So I would think that the members were just about as strong as full fledged SeeDs, I mean they were about to become SeeDs right after the fight. I don't think that one mission jumped their strength significantly.
Also, I wasn't assuming Squall couldn't do it because it didn't happen, I was simply asking you to back up your claim. I think the argument of Squall can take out armies should be based on a little more than assumptions.
Originally posted by IndridCold
If I rode their dicks as much as your on Cloud's I'd probably talk about cum all day like you too 😄
Do not make comments like this. That is a warning.
FFVII Zack Fair, since you've been openly hostile since you first joined, you are going to be serving a ban for your behaviour.
I expect this childish and vulgar bullshit to stop, now.
Originally posted by TacDavey
No, that alone isn't enough to claim Squall can take armies. The simple fact that Seifer fought off a few soldiers, there scans are higher and Squall is a top ranked SeeD does NOT jump to Squall takes out armies by himself. It just doesn't.Also, Zack technically lost, but he killed everyone except three soldiers
But yes an army.
Their Scan reveals they are NOWHERE near as ANY SeeD member.
Squall's by far da best of them.
Seifer took some soldiers by himself without breaking a sweat.
Zell beat two G-Soldiers in the D-District Prison without breaking a sweat as well, also he fought through everything from that place to recover the weapons. So the Scan is correct.
Also, Tac, elaborate. Just denying points without a logical explanation won't work for your case.
Then Zack couldn't take an army by himself, it seems.
Originally posted by TacDavey
You are just guessing with those numbers though. That fight was the last test before becoming a SeeD, right? So I would think that the members were just about as strong as full fledged SeeDs, I mean they were about to become SeeDs right after the fight. I don't think that one mission jumped their strength significantly.
That's not quite right. The rest of the "already" SeeDs are more experienced and stronger than the candidates. Let's recall they were just students at that point, and were trying to become SeeDs. Only a few passed the test.
Originally posted by TacDaveyYou make a good point and I do agree. It is just a guess. But because it makes specific mention that the "Galbadian Army" is occupying Dollet one would presume that the number is probably immense. Also in case the 8 or 9 SeeD initiates had failed, 3 to 4 regular SeeDs were dispatched to finish the job because in quote "They always get the job done." If 3 to 4 regular SeeDs can do it, I don't see why Squall can't.
You are just guessing with those numbers though. That fight was the last test before becoming a SeeD, right? So I would think that the members were just about as strong as full fledged SeeDs, I mean they were about to become SeeDs right after the fight. I don't think that one mission jumped their strength significantly.Also, I wasn't assuming Squall couldn't do it because it didn't happen, I was simply asking you to back up your claim. I think the argument of Squall can take out armies should be based on a little more than assumptions.
Originally posted by IndridCold
You make a good point and I do agree. It is just a guess. But because it makes specific mention that the "Galbadian Army" is occupying Dollet one would presume that the number is probably immense. Also in case the 8 or 9 SeeD initiates had failed, 3 to 4 regular SeeDs were dispatched to finish the job because in quote "They always get the job done." If 3 to 4 regular SeeDs can do it, I don't see why Squall can't.
Yes, besides, only 4 passed the test. Look at Seifer's Scan, he's one of the top fighters on the Garden, I assume the others would be Fujin and Raijin. Dollet was reorganizing their troops because they got their asses kicked, so that tells everything. According to Xu, the G-Army is MOPPING the Dollet troops, so you can imagine.
Not only that, Seifer and his arrogancy made Squall and Zell to follow him through the entire city and to reach the Communication Tower, which wasn't in plans. Seifer says that eliminating soldiers sounds BORING and called them cowards after beating some of them, they were escaping because they got their asses kicked. Let's remember this is in the VERY BEGINNING of the game.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
But yes an army.Their Scan reveals they are NOWHERE near as ANY SeeD member.
Squall's by far da best of them.Seifer took some soldiers by himself without breaking a sweat.
Zell beat two G-Soldiers in the D-District Prison without breaking a sweat as well, also he fought through everything from that place to recover the weapons. So the Scan is correct.Also, Tac, elaborate. Just denying points without a logical explanation won't work for your case.
Then Zack couldn't take an army by himself, it seems.
That's not quite right. The rest of the "already" SeeDs are more experienced and stronger than the candidates. Let's recall they were just students at that point, and were trying to become SeeDs. Only a few passed the test.
Two soldiers is not the same as an army, GreiverSquall.
I'm not just denying points. I'm looking for the defense of your points. If you claim the sun is blue, I'm not going to just accept it until I see your defense for your claim. If you want to say Squall can take out armies by himself, you are going to have to support that claim. I'm not completely convinced he can yet.
Practically an army, including two helicopters. Even though he didn't technically do it, leaving three soldiers alive is still an impressive display of power, and might I remind you Cloud is stronger than Zack.
But this was the last step to becoming a SeeD, right? So after they were done, they were SeeDs, just like the others. Maybe not AS experienced, but SeeD material. I don't think there was a massive leap in strength after this mission. So they were, for the most part, SeeD strength on that mission.
Originally posted by IndridCold
You make a good point and I do agree. It is just a guess. But because it makes specific mention that the "Galbadian Army" is occupying Dollet one would presume that the number is probably immense. Also in case the 8 or 9 SeeD initiates had failed, 3 to 4 regular SeeDs were dispatched to finish the job because in quote "They always get the job done." If 3 to 4 regular SeeDs can do it, I don't see why Squall can't.
Maybe, but 3 to 4 SeeDs come in to finish it, or help if something goes wrong. Not necessarily do it all themselves. And like I said earlier, those 8 - 9 initiates couldn't have been THAT much weaker than the average SeeD, this was the end of their training after all. An argument could be made based off this line of reasoning, but I'm not convinced it proves anything conclusively.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Practically an army, including two helicopters. Even though he didn't technically do it, leaving three soldiers alive is still an impressive display of power, and might I remind you Cloud is stronger than Zack.But this was the last step to becoming a SeeD, right? So after they were done, they were SeeDs, just like the others. Maybe not AS experienced, but SeeD material. I don't think there was a massive leap in strength after this mission. So they were, for the most part, SeeD strength on that mission.
Maybe, but 3 to 4 SeeDs come in to finish it, or help if something goes wrong. Not necessarily do it all themselves. And like I said earlier, those 8 - 9 initiates couldn't have been THAT much weaker than the average SeeD, this was the end of their training after all. An argument could be made based off this line of reasoning, but I'm not convinced it proves anything conclusively.
It wasn't even enough to be considered a whole battalion ermm
And probably as they do with SOLDIER, the stronger the SeeD become the tougher the jobs (there are 31 ranks). They gave Squall a simple first job.
Originally posted by TacDaveyFair enough, agree to disagree then. It's just common sense that Squall is much stronger than 8 or 9 initiates so it's fairly logical to me.
Maybe, but 3 to 4 SeeDs come in to finish it, or help if something goes wrong. Not necessarily do it all themselves. And like I said earlier, those 8 - 9 initiates couldn't have been THAT much weaker than the average SeeD, this was the end of their training after all. An argument could be made based off this line of reasoning, but I'm not convinced it proves anything conclusively.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Two soldiers is not the same as an army, GreiverSquall.I'm not just denying points. I'm looking for the defense of your points. If you claim the sun is blue, I'm not going to just accept it until I see your defense for your claim. If you want to say Squall can take out armies by himself, you are going to have to support that claim. I'm not completely convinced he can yet.
Practically an army, including two helicopters. Even though he didn't technically do it, leaving three soldiers alive is still an impressive display of power, and might I remind you Cloud is stronger than Zack.
O RLY????
Of course, if I claim something, I am the one with the burden of proof, logically. But if you offer no refutation, then it means nothing if you acknowledge my defense. It's not like I have to convince you either, no one is going to change minds here, you should know that already, lol.
Anyway. As far as I know you don't have to destroy any helicopter, just the soldiers and they were around 100. Zack died, so he can't take an army by himself, that wasn't any army by the way, it was a troop of the Shin-Ra Infantry. I thought the same before, but... I am not sure now, why is Cloud stronger than Zack? Zack couldn't take a troop at the end of Crisis Core, and we are talking about the very beginning of Final Fantasy VIII where some students took an army.
Originally posted by TacDavey
But this was the last step to becoming a SeeD, right? So after they were done, they were SeeDs, just like the others. Maybe not AS experienced, but SeeD material. I don't think there was a massive leap in strength after this mission. So they were, for the most part, SeeD strength on that mission.Maybe, but 3 to 4 SeeDs come in to finish it, or help if something goes wrong. Not necessarily do it all themselves. And like I said earlier, those 8 - 9 initiates couldn't have been THAT much weaker than the average SeeD, this was the end of their training after all. An argument could be made based off this line of reasoning, but I'm not convinced it proves anything conclusively.
It's a field exam.
Squall had to take Ifrit by himself, just with a little support from Quistis (who has been a SeeD for 3 years) before heading to Dollet, so yeah, there are SeeDs a lot more experienced than the candidates. No, only the ones that passes the exam can become SeeDs, so if they were 9, only 4 of them did. They have their first real missions afterwards. Actually, those SeeDs were stronger at that point, yes, they are there to support (if needed) the candidates. Of course that later in the story Squall grows stronger, but we are talking about the very beginning of the game and in the very beginning of the game any of the G-Soldiers are as strong as ANY SeeD member.
Once again, for Seifer eliminating soldiers is just boring, and I assume he amuses himself while doing it seeing as how he call them cowards. A SeeD candidate is far stronger than any G-Soldier, so that SeeD candidate could take many soldiers alone, I can't tell numbers though, but many. A regular but more experienced SeeD (like Quistis or Xu) could take even more soldiers by themselves. Seifer is one of the top fighters in the Garden, so he could take even more by himself, seeing as how he take them without breaking a sweat, Squall is stronger than Seifer and the strongest of all the SeeDs, so yeah, Squall taking an army sounds plausible to me.
Originally posted by GrieverSquallYep totally agree, it may not convince some of these Cloud guys, but the logic behind what I'm saying should make sense to anyone(be it Cloud fanboy or Squall fanboy). Maybe I've made a breakthru maybe not. We shall see lol
Yes, besides, only 4 passed the test. Look at Seifer's Scan, he's one of the top fighters on the Garden, I assume the others would be Fujin and Raijin. Dollet was reorganizing their troops because they got their asses kicked, so that tells everything. According to Xu, the G-Army is MOPPING the Dollet troops, so you can imagine.Not only that, Seifer and his arrogancy made Squall and Zell to follow him through the entire city and to reach the Communication Tower, which wasn't in plans. Seifer says that eliminating soldiers sounds BORING and called them cowards after beating some of them, they were escaping because they got their asses kicked. Let's remember this is in the VERY BEGINNING of the game.
Originally posted by IndridCold
Yep totally agree, it may not convince some of these Cloud guys, but the logic behind what I'm saying should make sense to anyone(be it Cloud fanboy or Squall fanboy). Maybe I've made a breakthru maybe not. We shall see lol
Don't worry, I have you covered.
Read above, lol.
Originally posted by TacDaveyFirst off where's your proof for Cloud being stronger than Zack? Isn't that pretty much the question of questions pertaining to those two. I see people argueing about that all the time lol, and arguably speaking, I've seen most side with Zack. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure there's no mention of that anywhere other than people's opinions. But whatever....that's another arguement in itself.
Two soldiers is not the same as an army, GreiverSquall.I'm not just denying points. I'm looking for the defense of your points. If you claim the sun is blue, I'm not going to just accept it until I see your defense for your claim. If you want to say Squall can take out armies by himself, you are going to have to support that claim. I'm not completely convinced he can yet.
Practically an army, including two helicopters. Even though he didn't technically do it, leaving three soldiers alive is still an impressive display of power, and might I remind you Cloud is stronger than Zack.
But this was the last step to becoming a SeeD, right? So after they were done, they were SeeDs, just like the others. Maybe not AS experienced, but SeeD material. I don't think there was a massive leap in strength after this mission. So they were, for the most part, SeeD strength on that mission.
Maybe, but 3 to 4 SeeDs come in to finish it, or help if something goes wrong. Not necessarily do it all themselves. And like I said earlier, those 8 - 9 initiates couldn't have been THAT much weaker than the average SeeD, this was the end of their training after all. An argument could be made based off this line of reasoning, but I'm not convinced it proves anything conclusively.
Secondly, I understand what your trying to say about the SeeD initiates becoming full fledged SeeDs after passing the exam, but I'm almost positive your logic is wrong. Hear me out. In SOLDIER there are several classes right? Once someone makes it into SOLDIER it isn't like they are directly promoted to SOLDIER 1st class. To say that the SeeD initiates would automatically be as powerful as any SeeD upon completing their final task is probably a huge over-statement.
Also there are some people who don't realize this, but there is a ranking system in SeeD. It starts off at 1 and ends at A. 1 being the lowest rank and A the highest rank with a total of 31 ranks in all. (1, 2, 3...29, 30, A... Etc Etc.) The top rank any SeeD can get upon completing their final exam is 10, but most only get between a 4 and 6. Regardless, they still have at least 21 ranks to climb. Although it doesn't prove much, it does suggest that there are much stronger SeeDs out there, especially stronger that any initiate completing their final exam could be.
Again sorry for the double posts, work sucks 😛
Originally posted by Raelene
😑 wow....what exactly is this argument about? I'm getting a little dizzy here 😛Someone please update me instead of me reading all the previous posts lol which would probably take maybe....1 week? 😖hifty:
Um, what? 😕
Oh yeah, we are discussing about "armies" now. Squall is capable in taking out an army by himself, we are backing that up. (Start reading from at least page number 25 and you'll understand).
Although, if you have some good argument to support Squall, you're welcome to do so!