Cloud vs Squall

Started by SpadeKing41 pages

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
lulz, are you referring to Squall's party which he abandoned to go to Esthar and search for Ellone? You make it seem as if he ordered them to come with him. Had it not been a coincidence that Edea needed escorts to go see dr. Odine, Squall would have preferred to go solo...wait, which he did in the first place...

besides, I meant SeeDs such as Xu et al, not Squall's party...

The same party he abandoned to go to Esthar that was still in fact following him in Esthar then, yes. 😐

Don't really see what you're proving, you only proved what I said about him being a loner and wanting to get things done without getting anyone else involved and that there were in fact SeeD and Squall's party in Esthar regardless.

Xu? Then who would've been left as 3rd in command on the garden? She was pretty much like an overseer there, as far as I can tell, she seemed pretty much in charge whenever Squall is absent.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
Irvine is not a SeeD...

and clearly you are once again misinterpreting stuff, where did I say that Squall's party are not SeeDs? i was referring to the other SeeDs back in the garden, I wasn't saying that there are no SeeDs in Squall's party...

Forgot to type him out, didn't really think about him since he actually came in with a real important role in the group.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No.
Only Squad Captains and that stuff (Like Seifer during the Field Exam).

So they just made up that position then and there for Squall. So it must not have been very hard to get into, if they just made it up with you in mind.

Originally posted by TacDavey
So they just made up that position then and there for Squall. So it must not have been very hard to get into, if they just made it up with you in mind.

Well, we don't have to use the term "made up". Squall by fact earned that Rank. And no, it must have been hard, just like those "made up" SOLDIER Ranks that are awarded for those who reach each Rank.

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Well, we don't have to use the term "made up". Squall by fact earned that Rank. And no, it must have been hard, just like those "made up" SOLDIER Ranks that are awarded for those who reach each Rank.

No, the soldier ranks are all legit. They are made before hand and people work their way up into them. It seems Squall's rank was created just for him, as there never was a commander before him. So obviously, it wasn't very hard for Squall to get into that rank, since it was made just for him.

Putting the title of "commander" on Squall means nothing. I could think up 600 titles for myself, but placing them on me wouldn't mean a thing, because I created them for myself.

Originally posted by TacDavey
No, the soldier ranks are all legit. They are made before hand and people work their way up into them. It seems Squall's rank was created just for him, as there never was a commander before him. So obviously, it wasn't very hard for Squall to get into that rank, since it was made just for him.

Putting the title of "commander" on Squall means nothing. I could think up 600 titles for myself, but placing them on me wouldn't mean a thing, because I created them for myself.

That makes perfect sense 😐

"We jus made up a rankz fur ju considerin ju dun nuttin" < Thats what I got from it.

Considering Cid was talking about the need for a qualified leader before he appointed Squall, he obviously did something to get that rank and even if they named his rank crap, he was still the highest ranking SeeD operative and yes he was still SeeD as he continued to refer to himself as SeeD, not garden commander or headmaster v 2.0

Originally posted by TacDavey
No, the soldier ranks are all legit. They are made before hand and people work their way up into them. It seems Squall's rank was created just for him, as there never was a commander before him. So obviously, it wasn't very hard for Squall to get into that rank, since it was made just for him.

You are downplaying.

You are also biased. SeeD Ranks are also legit, they are also made for students and SeeD candidates to work their way up to them. Actually, Squall has work his way up to earn that Rank. It's still the highest SeeD Rank on the Garden. Yes, it was awarded for him, due of his achievements, merits in battle, military operations and capabilities in combat with GFs, High Level of Para-Magic, etc. SeeD are special forces.

Originally posted by TacDavey
Putting the title of "commander" on Squall means nothing. I could think up 600 titles for myself

See? That's downplaying.

Also what SpadeKing said. 😐

considering that Angeal, Genesis, Sephiroth, Zack, Nero, and Weiss were all elite class, the SOLDIER ranks are very legit...

and Squall being the strongest SeeD deserved the promotion, it's just that the fact that Cid was a wuss when push came to shove was also a factor...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
considering that Angeal, Genesis, Sephiroth, Zack, Nero, and Weiss were all elite class, the SOLDIER ranks are very legit...

and Squall being the strongest SeeD deserved the promotion, it's just that the fact that Cid was a wuss when push came to shove was also a factor...

No one has said they aren't. 😐
SeeDs are also Elite...

1st Class SOLDIERs take the most dangerous missions, just as High Ranked SeeD as Squall and his party does. 😐

I was talking to Tac. 😐

No one said SeeDs are not elite. 😐

Oh and I should quote his post but it's too much work on the iPhone...

*sorry for the double post*

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
I was talking to Tac. 😐

No one said SeeDs are not elite. 😐

My apologies, sir. 😐 😐 😐 😐 😐

Originally posted by SpadeKing
That makes perfect sense 😐

"We jus made up a rankz fur ju considerin ju dun nuttin" < Thats what I got from it.

Considering Cid was talking about the need for a qualified leader before he appointed Squall, he obviously did something to get that rank and even if they named his rank crap, he was still the highest ranking SeeD operative and yes he was still SeeD as he continued to refer to himself as SeeD, not garden commander or headmaster v 2.0

I never said he didn't do anything to earn the title, but the title itself means nothing because it was created just for him. Now, if you have someone who is a Soldier first class, it says something about them because everyone knows what it takes to become a Soldier first class, so to become one you can guess just how powerful someone is. But with Squalls title, you don't get that, since it was made just for him. So to say, "Squall is awesome because he's a SeeD commander" doesn't actually say anything about Squall at all. Since the title of "commander" is one for him and only him. It's the same as saying "Squall is awesome because he's Squall."

Originally posted by GrieverSquall
You are downplaying.

You are also biased. SeeD Ranks are also legit, they are also made for students and SeeD candidates to work their way up to them. Actually, Squall has work his way up to earn that Rank. It's still the highest SeeD Rank on the Garden. Yes, it was awarded for him, due of his achievements, merits in battle, military operations and capabilities in combat with GFs, High Level of Para-Magic, etc. SeeD are special forces.

See? That's downplaying.

Also what SpadeKing said. 😐

I'm not biased at all. The Soldier classes have prerequisites for being in them, so you can rationally tell how powerful someone is if they are Soldier first class. But the same can't be said about Squall's rank, read above.

Also, aren't the SeeD ranks just a game mechanic they put in for a side thing to make money or something? Didn't Indridcold say you could technically be the lowest ranked SeeD and still be Squalls strength if you did nothing to raise your rank?

Originally posted by TacDavey
I never said he didn't do anything to earn the title but the title itself means nothing because it was created just for him. Now, if you have someone who is a Soldier first class, it says something about them because everyone knows what it takes to become a Soldier first class, so to become one you can guess just how powerful someone is. But with Squalls title, you don't get that, since it was made just for him. So to say, "Squall is awesome because he's a SeeD commander" doesn't actually say anything about Squall at all. Since the title of "commander" is one for him and only him. It's the same as saying "Squall is awesome because he's Squall

You admit Squall did worked to gain that spot, then. When it comes down to it, he did actually worked the whole time when taking his missions as a SeeD and he permanently grew stronger through the course of the story. You make it sound like since the Commander Rank was awarded for him, it means it holds nothing of relevance, it does, actually, pretty much. Cid knows very well his warriors, as he has founded the Gardens, if he saw Squall as the best, then he is in fact the best, thus the perfect one to take all the responsabilities. Squall is the strongest SeeD.

Also, Squall's Rank is a SeeD Rank, because Squall IS a SeeD.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I'm not biased at all. The Soldier classes have prerequisites for being in them, so you can rationally tell how powerful someone is if they are Soldier first class.

Can you swear that to me...?
It's the same with SeeDs. 😐

Originally posted by TacDavey
Also, aren't the SeeD ranks just a game mechanic they put in for a side thing to make money or something? Didn't Indridcold say you could technically be the lowest ranked SeeD and still be Squalls strength if you did nothing to raise your rank?

No, that's something to raise the Gil you earn. But story-wise, SeeD Ranks are judged by several prerequisites, Conduct, Judgment, Attack, Spirit, Attitude. SeeDs are an Elite special force. I don't know what you mean by "didn't indridcold say...", you know, he may be wrong, which in fact, he was, lol. He did not say anything about "Squall's strength" either, Squall is Squall. I suggest you to read my posts, if not I'll have to repeat the same to you now.

actually the prerequisites you mentioned such as conduct etc, that's only for the INITIAL SeeD rank you gain once you complete the field/final exam...

succeeding ranks are only attained via gameplay through academic exams accessed in the tutorial section of the menu..

I forgot, but there are also exclusive portions during gameplay that can affect SeeD rank, such as The Timber train mission and escaping from the Tomb of the Unknown King among others...

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
actually the prerequisites you mentioned such as conduct etc, that's only for the INITIAL SeeD rank you gain once you complete the field/final exam...

succeeding ranks are only attained via gameplay through academic exams accessed in the tutorial section of the menu..

I forgot, but there are also exclusive portions during gameplay that can affect SeeD rank, such as The Timber train mission and escaping from the Tomb of the Unknown King among others...

No, incorrect, once you pass the Field Exam you can keep climbing Ranks.

That's for Gameplay purposes. Those are some tests and questions that you can answer, which are purely related to Gameplay, game mechanics and some quizzes about the story of the game, it is just to earn more Gil, nothing more, it does not affect the story-wise aspect of it. Besides, it is optional for each player. That has nothing to do with anything.

I agree with your last paragraph. Except that those can be considered part of the story. Depending how well you fare, the SeeD Rank goes up, or down. Just like Squall's prerequisite in order to participate in the Field Exam, he had to defeat Ifrit first. Also if you run away from battles your SeeD Rank goes down, etc.

My friend Tac just tries to downplay everything based on Indridcold's lack of knowledge about the game in its totality. 😆

Originally posted by TacDavey
I never said he didn't do anything to earn the title, but the title itself means nothing because it was created just for him. Now, if you have someone who is a Soldier first class, it says something about them because everyone knows what it takes to become a Soldier first class, so to become one you can guess just how powerful someone is. But with Squalls title, you don't get that, since it was made just for him. So to say, "Squall is awesome because he's a SeeD commander" doesn't actually say anything about Squall at all. Since the title of "commander" is one for him and only him. It's the same as saying "Squall is awesome because he's Squall."
Originally posted by TacDavey
They are made before hand and people work their way up into them. It seems Squall's rank was created just for him, as there never was a commander before him. So obviously, it wasn't very hard for Squall to get into that rank, since it was made just for him.

Well trust me, it is well indicated that you meant he basically did nothing.

Getting into SOLDIER is just mainly a matter of surviving and the body reacting correctly to the mako infusion.
Getting into SeeD was a matter of training, tests, taking on a pre-requisite mission for the exam and then passing battle field exams. From there on they pretty much grow the same for rank except for SeeD is also measured on multiple other things aside from just accomplishing the mission.

So far it seems harder just to get into SeeD, then rise in the ranks.

Once again Squall got the rank due to his prior accomplishments in the little time he has been in SeeD, there are probably some rank A, 1, 2, 3, etc... SeeD running around somewhere or in the garden but, Cid chose Squall so obviously he was the most powerful out of all of them otherwise he would've called up another class A which I am guessing Xu and Quistis probably achieved. Besides he told anyone who had a problem with it they could go speak to Cid, as far as we see no one spoke with Cid and no one in the garden questioned it.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I'm not biased at all. The Soldier classes have prerequisites for being in them, so you can rationally tell how powerful someone is if they are Soldier first class. But the same can't be said about Squall's rank, read above.

Also, aren't the SeeD ranks just a game mechanic they put in for a side thing to make money or something? Didn't Indridcold say you could technically be the lowest ranked SeeD and still be Squalls strength if you did nothing to raise your rank?

Pre-requisite to get into SOLDIER, train some and pass the mako infusion, which is the only thing you really need. After that the pre-requisites for raising in the ranks aren't much different from SeeD.

SOLDIER just have to complete the mission.
SeeD have to finish the mission and are still graded by their field conduct.

That is a nice contradiction on the last paragraph. The SeeD ranks are real, how they are earned after the exam is nearly all game mechanic. Besides if you wanted to say Squall is the lowest ranked SeeD that is just saying a lot about all the other SeeD in skill then, anyway it is hard to stay the lowest rank SeeD you would have to run out of every battle yet still after one boss fight you pretty much guaranteed a rise from rank 30. Canon wise he was more than likely up at the top 5 at the least in rank, once again you wouldn't name a rank 30 SeeD as commander cause Cid would've still had multiple other better choices as the SeeD commander.

Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
actually the prerequisites you mentioned such as conduct etc, that's only for the INITIAL SeeD rank you gain once you complete the field/final exam...

succeeding ranks are only attained via gameplay through academic exams accessed in the tutorial section of the menu..

He was speaking of obtaining the ranks canonically I believe. They continue raising the same way canonically. During gameplay they raise through the academic exams (to a certain point) and doing multiple battles and summoning GFs less before your next paycheck.

so basically all succeeding ranks after your initial SeeD rank is tied to gameplay...

The half part.

are you referring to the field exam as the first half, which the maximum is 10 I believe?...