How many Colossuses(is that correct?) does it take to beat a Juggernaut?

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
In Marvel though, telepathy is like a form of electrical control. Magneto has a limited degree of telepathy and people with magnetic or electrical powers have a higher resistance to it. It directly manipulates the brain patterns.

I don't there's ever been a comic where it specifically states that only telepathy and magic can affect Juggernaut. Ears are sensitive and pain doesn't always equal damage.

All energy is transferable. Sound (as you know) is a form of energy, it just requires a medium to travel through.

Ill the arguement with Nimrod is mute in only that Marvel itself says if he had his shield up the attack wuold basically have no effect.

Where is this stated, and what is it referring to? In the comic, Juggernaut is wearing his protective skull cap that has the same psionic blocking properties as his helmet and he is still effected.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I disagree.

The premise of Juggernaut has always been that that he is physically invulnerable, but certain attacks, be they magical or mental, effect him.

People are confusing the effects of sonics; sonics are not simply a concussive attack. The properties of sonics are multi-faceted.

There are soundwaves of such a magnitude that they can shatter matter and cause shockwaves for miles, and there's also the sensory stimuli of sonics that directly effect the brain and central nervous system of people in the effected area.

A thunderclap in the real world can both shake a city and cause people and objects to fall over, as well as deafen a person and cause sensory overload. Multi-faceted effects.

Comparing sonics to other energy attacks is a lost cause. All energy attacks have different properties.

What I was saying is that Cain has been shown stated not to need these same systems to function in that no muscles or brain to move muscles or no need of food or air. If that is the case then attacking those systems would in turn have no effect on Cain sense he would not need them.
Now this creates a paradox where Cain has shown he can be effected Nimrod and another instance where it shows suh attacks are mute via no flash or organs. This means that normally that higher feat is taken in the lower one thrown away. Unless it is an example of a character doing something that is completely beyond their power set but this isn't one of those.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Where is this stated, and what is it referring to? In the comic, Juggernaut is wearing his protective skull cap that has the same psionic blocking properties as his helmet and he is still effected.

"Probably"?

Thats' not very conclusive.

Originally posted by newjak86
I wasn't comparing sonics to other energy attacks I was stating that sonics as you have pointed out can effect someone physically by attacking systems withing the body.

What I was saying is that Cain has been shown stated not to need these same systems to function in that no muscles or brain to move muscles or no need of food or air. If that is the case then attacking those systems would in turn have no effect on Cain sense he would not need them.
Now this creates a paradox where Cain has shown he can be effected Nimrod and another instance where it shows suh attacks are mute via no flash or organs. This means that normally that higher feat is taken in the lower one thrown away. Unless it is an example of a character doing something that is completely beyond their power set but this isn't one of those.

Using that train of thought, telepathy shouldn't work either, because Juggernaut doesn't need a brain, but we both know the answer to that.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Using that train of thought, telepathy shouldn't work either, because Juggernaut doesn't need a brain, but we both know the answer to that.

Originally posted by newjak86
Why not because as i stated before in Marvel it seems the actual TP seems more a non-physical power as in it seems. Just look at some of things TP users can do go the the Astral Plane and most magic users and Cosmic beings have TP.

Telepathy is an energy attack, just as sonics are. Telepathy is also an extra sensory ability. Sonics are a sensory stimuli.

In order for telepathy to work, certain sensory implements in a person's brain and stimuli need to be used. Some alien races in Marvel are immune to telepathy because they do not have the physical implements necessary in their brains for the stimuli to take effect.

Thought is simply a form of energy at a certain frequency.

As for ascending to the Astral Plane, that really has no precedence in the argument.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Telepathy is an energy attack, just as sonics are. Telepathy is also an extra sensory ability. Sonics are a sensory stimuli.

In order for telepathy to work, certain sensory implements in a person's brain and stimuli need to be used. Some alien races in Marvel are immune to telepathy because they do not have the physical implements necessary in their brains for the stimuli to take effect.

Thought is simply a form of energy at a certain frequency.

As for ascending to the Astral Plane, that really has no precedence in the argument.

Magic and cosmic power are energy attacks but they can effect Cain thus your argument has no precedence one form of energy can work but others can't.

The Astral Plane I used to highlight a point that TP is often not associated with just effecting the brain. Now people can still effect the brain and have TP-like abilities but don't have true TP. Magneto is one he can effect people's brains by messing with the nervous system but can not read people's minds or go to the Astral Plane why. Because with TP users they seem to effect something else the mind which is different from the brain.

The brain is the organ the mind is like a par of the soul that is used to house everything now the mechanics and ideas behind it are more theoretical than fact but in Marvel alot of theoretical stuff happens this seems to be one of them. True Tp users seem to possess the power to read minds and go the Astral Plane.
Another point adding to this notion that TP simply isn't a force just effecting the mind quite a few TP users seem that power rooted in magic or cosmic power.

This is just my opinion and is subject to criticism but there is evidence to supprt as I've stated.

colossus does alright grabbing him there. but juggy throws his ass down after that. so yah id say it does take mrore than one for sure

Thats the cartoon, meaning it's not cannon.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Where is this stated, and what is it referring to? In the comic, Juggernaut is wearing his protective skull cap that has the same psionic blocking properties as his helmet and he is still effected.

It doesn't have the same properties. It offers some resistance, but doesn't come close to his normal helmet, and is made of different material.

And I don't get why the whole "sensory overload" thing is still being disputed. Y'all are talking like all those "Colossi" are gonna come at Juggernaut with tuning forks or something.

Originally posted by Tron
It doesn't have the same properties. It offers some resistance, but doesn't come close to his normal helmet, and is made of different material.

And I don't get why the whole "sensory overload" thing is still being disputed. Y'all are talking like all those "Colossi" are gonna come at Juggernaut with tuning forks or something.

From Marvel.com

Paraphernalia
The Juggernaut wears a helmet fashioned from an unknown mystical metal found in the Crimson Cosmos dimension of Cyttorak. The Juggernaut subsequently fashioned a skullcap from scraps of the metal used to construct the helmet. The Juggernaut originally wore a suit of armor that he could summon around himself at will from the Crimson Cosmos. After being stripped of his powers, the Juggernaut took to wearing a suit of armor that resembles his original but is fashioned from unstable molecules.

Without his helmet and skullcap, the Juggernaut is vulnerable to psionic attacks against his mind.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Juggernaut_%28Cain_Marko%29

It's composed of the same material brotha.

Originally posted by newjak86
Heat is an energy attack that doesn't effect Cain

Magic and cosmic power are energy attacks but they can effect Cain thus your argument has no precedence one form of energy can work but others can't.

The Astral Plane I used to highlight a point that TP is often not associated with just effecting the brain. Now people can still effect the brain and have TP-like abilities but don't have true TP. Magneto is one he can effect people's brains by messing with the nervous system but can not read people's minds or go to the Astral Plane why. Because with TP users they seem to effect something else the mind which is different from the brain.

The brain is the organ the mind is like a par of the soul that is used to house everything now the mechanics and ideas behind it are more theoretical than fact but in Marvel alot of theoretical stuff happens this seems to be one of them. True Tp users seem to possess the power to read minds and go the Astral Plane.
Another point adding to this notion that TP simply isn't a force just effecting the mind quite a few TP users seem that power rooted in magic or cosmic power.

This is just my opinion and is subject to criticism but there is evidence to supprt as I've stated.

Heat is also energy, but it doesn't effect you the way high frequency sonics do, which I'm sure you know.

They (sonics) have already been shown to work.

So have physical means(Onslaught saga) does that mean that it was written or portrayed correctly?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Heat is also energy, but it doesn't effect you the way high frequency sonics do, which I'm sure you know.

They (sonics) have already been shown to work.

You know what's wild? What's truly wild?

Both heat and sound are vibrations... sound is larger things vibrating, like compounds, heat is smaller things like molecular or atomic vibration.

Originally posted by Soujaboy
So have physical means(Onslaught saga) does that mean that it was written or portrayed correctly?

Originally posted by Creshosk
You know what's wild? What's truly wild?

Both heat and sound are vibrations... sound is larger things vibrating, like compounds, heat is smaller things like molecular or atomic vibration.

If you want I can work on some BS explination ... such as starting off looking at what onslaught was, what he was composed of ... you know? What the heck was onslaught's armor made out of?

I know full well who Onslaught was, was made of, and his power set. That still doesn't mean he should be able to physically harm Cain. Yes, he could easily defeat Cain with his TP, but by no means should that automatically give Onslaught the ability to physically damage him. Juggernaut took the god blast without so much as a scratch, yet he can just be physically damaged by a punch? If you think about it, it doesn't add up.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Heat is also energy, but it doesn't effect you the way high frequency sonics do, which I'm sure you know.

They (sonics) have already been shown to work.

Which as I stated before being the higher feat is the one that is to be used.

Originally posted by newjak86
As stated before by Cresh heat and sound are both nothing more than Vibrations.
Next yes they have been shown to work but in another canon source Juggernaut was stripped of all organs and flesh and was still able to move without muscles, talk without vocal chords, and had no nervous system to send messages to his body. That means that in turn he doesn't need those systems to havehis body function properly therefore an attack on those systems should have no effect on Cain.

Which as I stated before being the higher feat is the one that is to be used.

I also stated that fact earlier in this thread, thanks for elaborating that for me.

Originally posted by newjak86
Ill the arguement with Nimrod is mute in only that Marvel itself says if he had his shield up the attack wuold basically have no effect. The big matter here is that Cain as a character has been shown to not need the basic needs of a human. Air to breath, vocal chords to talk and muscles or organ systems to function. Since in this appearance it seems that Cain doesn't need these things then it is therefore a simple idea to see that effecting them would in turn have no effect if he doesn't use them. While the Nimrod event seems to take these notions and dismiss them. what this leads to is a contradiction of the same character in two canon sources. This normally means on these forums that the higher feat is the one that is to be used. Unless it is an example of SvFL in which a character goes completely beyond their capabilites but in this feat nothing of that sort takes place therefore it can be used.