The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

Started by Turr_Phennir3,287 pages

lolwut r u tlkn bowt
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[*]Of course Anakin would know that the Jedi were killed by Sidious; the point I was trying to make is that he doesn't know how the fight started: Did they attack him or vice versa? That cannot be ascertained by a quick glance at three corpses.
[*]Palpatine killing all the Jedi and telling Anakin about it wouldn't work either, it would only serve to put moar distance between the two of them. Anakin was absolutely willing to side with the Jedi until Windu attempted to execute Palpatine on the spot, which would have deprived Anakin of Palpatine's supposed knowledge with which he could save his beloved wife. How would killing the Jedi and trying to offer some sort of excuse to Anakin help Palpatine's case at all?
[*]The decision to appeal to Anakin's interference was a stroke of genius for Sidious. As mentioned before, Anakin had sided with the Jedi up until that point. The only way to convert Anakin was to force his hand, which in this case made him complicit in the death of the second highest ranking Jedi Master in the galaxy to defend a Lord of the Sith. That's something of a professional gamechanger even among Jedi, I'd imagine. That effect could not have possibly been gained unless Palpatine's life was in danger. As George notes in the commentary, Anakin wants Palpatine to be arrested... so he can pump him for information. Anakin originally seeks to obtain this esoteric knowledge without succumbing to the dark side. Palpatine "alters the deal" somewhat by driving Windu to a point that he was going to assassinate the Chancellor.
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Conclusion: u fayl bro

in other news secret passages are cool and i'm watching videos about them on youtube

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
lolwut r u tlkn bowt
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[*]Of course Anakin would know that the Jedi were killed by Sidious; the point I was trying to make is that he doesn't know how the fight started: Did they attack him or vice versa? That cannot be ascertained by a quick glance at three corpses.
That aside, how is seeing Mace winning make him the aggressor? It's just as likely that Palpatine started the fight and Mace finished it...]
[*]Palpatine killing all the Jedi and telling Anakin about it wouldn't work either, it would only serve to put moar distance between the two of them. Anakin was absolutely willing to side with the Jedi until Windu attempted to execute Palpatine on the spot, which would have deprived Anakin of Palpatine's supposed knowledge with which he could save his beloved wife.

The deciding factor was when Sideous yelled that he could save Padme, and it was at that point Anakin realized he couldn't allow Sideous to die, evil or not.

If you agree with me just say so from the get-go, you inbreed. Dun' repeat my statements.

[*]The decision to appeal to Anakin's interference was a stroke of genius for Sidious. As mentioned before, Anakin had sided with the Jedi up until that point. The only way to convert Anakin was to force his hand, which in this case made him complicit in the death of the second highest ranking Jedi Master in the galaxy to defend a Lord of the Sith. That's something of a professional gamechanger even among Jedi, I'd imagine. That effect could not have possibly been gained unless Palpatine's life was in danger. As George notes in the commentary, Anakin wants Palpatine to be arrested... so he can pump him for information. Anakin originally seeks to obtain this esoteric knowledge without succumbing to the dark side. Palpatine "alters the deal" somewhat by driving Windu to a point that he was going to assassinate the Chancellor.
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It wouldn't have mattered. Even if Mace had been dead by the time Anakin had gotten there, Sideous had him by the balls.If Mace had already been dead what would Anakin have done? Tried to arrest Sideous himself? Laughable. As long as Sideous was Anakin's only link to saving Padme', literally nothing else mattered. His loyalty was assured from the get go.

Conclusion: u fayl bro

no u

😐

Anakin's loyalty wasn't assured until Mace threatened to kill Palpatine. He didn't trust Sidious, he wanted him arrested, and wanted him in Jedi custody.

These are three things that Palpatine has a big problem with. 😬

super bass by nicki minaj is a weird song.

Anakin's loyalty was assured the moment he believed Sideous' was his only hope of saving Padme. He may have been counting on Mace to arrest him, but once Mace was dead and it came down to just him and Sideous, he was as good as Palpatine's slave. Weither Mace had been the aggressor or not was irrelevant.

Again, unless you think Anakin would have tried to arrest Sideous himself if he had arrived after the battle instead of interrupting it.

Nicki Minaj is an awful artist. Turn that shit off.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
😐

Anakin's loyalty wasn't assured until Mace threatened to kill Palpatine. He didn't trust Sidious, he wanted him arrested, and wanted him in Jedi custody.

These are three things that Palpatine has a big problem with. 😬

Indeed, afterall had Anakin been truly loyal to Palpatine than he would never have told Mace Windu about him being a Sith.

"Ok, well this sequence always started out with Mace, uh, overpowering Palpatine and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace and Mace deflecting his rays with his Lightsaber. It always was that Anakin cut the Lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later cause this is it moved the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here and you can see that he’s now that its very clear that he’s, he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

Or Anakin sics Obi-Wan and Yoda on him? Or the other Jedi out there?

The only thing that made Mace's death important or a catalyst to Anakin is that Palpatine put him in a position where he was complicit in it. If Sidious had killed Mace outright, that wouldn't have won any points with Anakin.

That was for my blaxican lover, ares. God this song is weird.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Or Anakin sics Obi-Wan and Yoda on him? Or the other Jedi out there?

The only thing that made Mace's death important or a catalyst to Anakin is that Palpatine put him in a position where he was complicit in it. If Sidious had killed Mace outright, that wouldn't have won any points with Anakin.

That was for my blaxican lover, ares. God this song is weird.

Sick Obi-Wan and Yoda, who were weeks away fighting wars on the other side of the galaxy?

Bro. 😐

It's not like Palpatine was going anywhere, bro. And it's not like there aren't hundreds of other Jedi on Coruscant. 😐

bro

Originally posted by Lucius
How the fvck did you do that?

The stealth mechanics in the game are utter garbage. Like I wasted time getting stealth augs only to realize that one way or another the game was going to degenerate into a massacre at every turn.

I tried to stealth, but after reloading my games a combined total of 73 times before some BS detection I said fvck it, dumped the stupid tranq weapons and picked up some actual guns.

Well, where to start?

First, if you're playing it on Xbox instead of a PC, that may be contributing to the issue, I'm not sure. I have the PC version, and WASD/mouse controls are super intuitive.

Second, I've played MGS games since their inception, Splinter Cell, the other two Deus Ex games, and Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2, so the stealth/cover system was VERY easy to pick up. My first play through was on the hardest difficulty and I died more from falls than from enemies excepting Barret. The only reason I didn't get the achievements that run was because I found out the mooks I slaughtered in the intro count against the pacifist, so I said **** it and typhooned everything.

Maybe this can help:

If you are a newbie to the games I mentioned above (specifically Deus Ex IW and Splinter Cell, which have the most bearing), then you will need to learn to abuse cover whenever you can. Much like good ol' MGS, the guards, bots, and cameras have cones of vision. There's an aug you can get to show you these, as well as your last known location according to the guards, and the alarmed-to-normal cooldown should you trigger suspicion. But the reality is that sinking Praxis points into these should only be if you're completely green (which it sounds like you are).

It truly helps to simply get in the habit of always walking crouched and taking your time. Don't do the acrobatic roll-to-cover, as it can trigger suspicion.

When using the tranq rifle, don't shoot at one guard when another is present. They "hear" the shot if in close proximity, or they see the other guard fall. Nine times out of ten, you can simply navigate around them, by sticking to the shadows and crouching, moving around tables/etc, or by moving boxes in the corner and viola! - finding vents and holes in the gates to get around seemingly impossible guards.

In latter levels, it actually pays to out-right buff up Cloak and Punch Thru Walls. The former can bypass lasers and bots which have a notorious visual range in short bursts. With the right Energy Recharge augs, you can flit from cover to cover, pausing only momentarily to have your cloak charge, without spending any items in your inventory. The Punch Thru Walls helps find otherwise impossible to reach locations that are almost always shortcuts which net you XP.

Takedowns are always preferable. Getting the aug which allows you to take down two guards at once is a huge energy saver, and almost necessary in later levels. Takedowns yield max XP per foe downed, they are silent (But not in close proximity of other guards) and they allow you to pillage guards for pocket secretaries and ammo which makes the rest of the game easier.

The tranq rifle has drop over distance. There's a mod piece to allow you to toggle an aim aid, and I highly recommend it. Usually, a mid ranged headshot is perfect, but avoid headshotting the thugs in Detroit whenever possible. A glitch causes some to die (specifically, the one in Baller territory who stands near the burned out car) and some of the sentries who have dialogue in these same areas cannot be tranqed/stunned until they have finished their conversation. Weird bug, but since it can cost you the achievement, I felt the need to point it out.

The stun gun is good at point blank range, but chances are this will cause a momentary hostile condition and ruin your Ghost XP bonus for the mission. Also, it has a tendency to miss, making you have to reload again. It's generally a good idea to stick to the priority of takedown > tranq rifle > stun gun at point blank range form behind > gas grenades. The latter should only be used if you do not care about a Ghost bonus and there's no alarms to trigger in the area. They work wonders in the final level if you are using a non-lethal run, so hoard them if you can.

Lastly, the PEP gun is a non-lethal concussion shotgun of sorts. Very effective if used up close, and can take down a small group of foes, but it's not absolute. If it's off center, or there's more than two guys in the line of fire, someone may be only stunned, and it ruins Ghost and possibly Smooth Operator if they get up before you can prevent them from triggering an alarm. My recommendation? Save it for the last level. It makes the whole thing a cakewalk.

If you have trouble with specific quests or areas, let me know. I'm working on my third playthru, the one where I basically murder everything.

Great read. Also, manning is officially out for the season. He was pretty much coaching the team from the booth and they almost beat the Steelers. I don't know why he's not an automatic player coach but he's better than most head coaches.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Well, where to start?

First, if you're playing it on Xbox instead of a PC, that may be contributing to the issue, I'm not sure. I have the PC version, and WASD/mouse controls are super intuitive.

Second, I've played MGS games since their inception, Splinter Cell, the other two Deus Ex games, and Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2, so the stealth/cover system was VERY easy to pick up. My first play through was on the hardest difficulty and I died more from falls than from enemies excepting Barret. The only reason I didn't get the achievements that run was because I found out the mooks I slaughtered in the intro count against the pacifist, so I said **** it and typhooned everything.

Maybe this can help:

If you are a newbie to the games I mentioned above (specifically Deus Ex IW and Splinter Cell, which have the most bearing), then you will need to learn to abuse cover whenever you can. Much like good ol' MGS, the guards, bots, and cameras have cones of vision. There's an aug you can get to show you these, as well as your last known location according to the guards, and the alarmed-to-normal cooldown should you trigger suspicion. But the reality is that sinking Praxis points into these should only be if you're completely green (which it sounds like you are).

It truly helps to simply get in the habit of always walking crouched and taking your time. Don't do the acrobatic roll-to-cover, as it can trigger suspicion.

When using the tranq rifle, don't shoot at one guard when another is present. They "hear" the shot if in close proximity, or they see the other guard fall. Nine times out of ten, you can simply navigate around them, by sticking to the shadows and crouching, moving around tables/etc, or by moving boxes in the corner and viola! - finding vents and holes in the gates to get around seemingly impossible guards.

In latter levels, it actually pays to out-right buff up Cloak and Punch Thru Walls. The former can bypass lasers and bots which have a notorious visual range in short bursts. With the right Energy Recharge augs, you can flit from cover to cover, pausing only momentarily to have your cloak charge, without spending any items in your inventory. The Punch Thru Walls helps find otherwise impossible to reach locations that are almost always shortcuts which net you XP.

Takedowns are always preferable. Getting the aug which allows you to take down two guards at once is a huge energy saver, and almost necessary in later levels. Takedowns yield max XP per foe downed, they are silent (But not in close proximity of other guards) and they allow you to pillage guards for pocket secretaries and ammo which makes the rest of the game easier.

The tranq rifle has drop over distance. There's a mod piece to allow you to toggle an aim aid, and I highly recommend it. Usually, a mid ranged headshot is perfect, but avoid headshotting the thugs in Detroit whenever possible. A glitch causes some to die (specifically, the one in Baller territory who stands near the burned out car) and some of the sentries who have dialogue in these same areas cannot be tranqed/stunned until they have finished their conversation. Weird bug, but since it can cost you the achievement, I felt the need to point it out.

The stun gun is good at point blank range, but chances are this will cause a momentary hostile condition and ruin your Ghost XP bonus for the mission. Also, it has a tendency to miss, making you have to reload again. It's generally a good idea to stick to the priority of takedown > tranq rifle > stun gun at point blank range form behind > gas grenades. The latter should only be used if you do not care about a Ghost bonus and there's no alarms to trigger in the area. They work wonders in the final level if you are using a non-lethal run, so hoard them if you can.

Lastly, the PEP gun is a non-lethal concussion shotgun of sorts. Very effective if used up close, and can take down a small group of foes, but it's not absolute. If it's off center, or there's more than two guys in the line of fire, someone may be only stunned, and it ruins Ghost and possibly Smooth Operator if they get up before you can prevent them from triggering an alarm. My recommendation? Save it for the last level. It makes the whole thing a cakewalk.

If you have trouble with specific quests or areas, let me know. I'm working on my third playthru, the one where I basically murder everything.

I am using an Xbox, which is a ***** since the Xbox controls are some of the worst mapped FPS controls I've ever seen.

However I've been playing stealth games since Thief the Dark Project and IDK, HR's system is really frustrating. The Alarmed/Hostile dynamic is BS. I can tranq one guy and for a split second he will be hostile, but if I use a frag grenade on a group of guys, that will instakill them all and at most make nearby enemies alarmed. I shit you not, that has happened to me before.

Originally posted by Lucius
I am using an Xbox, which is a ***** since the Xbox controls are some of the worst mapped FPS controls I've ever seen.

However I've been playing stealth games since Thief the Dark Project and IDK, HR's system is really frustrating. The Alarmed/Hostile dynamic is BS. I can tranq one guy and for a split second he will be hostile, but if I use a frag grenade on a group of guys, that will instakill them all and at most make nearby enemies alarmed. I shit you not, that has happened to me before.

Nothing beats the stealth systems of Thief, or even splinter cell. Hell, Thief practically invented stealth.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Nothing beats the stealth systems of Thief, or even splinter cell. Hell, Thief practically invented stealth.

Definitely my favourite stealth action games.

The thief games are among the greatest ever made, just below Assassins Creed.

Assassins Creed is the best game ever made? 🤨

The series is the best ever. Assassins creed 2 is the best game ever made IMO.

Well shit, guys. We're all going to jail:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19450_6-laws-youve-broken-without-even-realizing-it.html

Jesus Christ America sucks ass.

That kids creative writing essay is hilarious btw. I would have given him an A.

"My current English teacher is a control freak intent on setting a gap between herself and her students like a 63 year old white male fortune 500 company CEO, and a illegal immigrant. If CG was a private catholic school, I could understand, but wtf is her problem. And baking brownies and rice crispies does not make up for it, way to try and justify yourself as a good teacher while underhandedly looking for complements on your cooking. No quarrel on you qualifications as a writer, but as a teacher, don’t be surprised on inspiring the first cg shooting."

Lulz. A+ right there folks.

Edit: "On an additional note, I have completed the MEPS (Military Entry Processing Station) examinations, and yes a psychiatric evaluation is included in the process. If I’m qualified to defend the country, I believe I’m qualified to attend school. "

Hahaha, this guy is great!