Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
A pox on your tea-swilling island for splicing all these up. I added numbers. Alright:[b]1.)
I honestly don't know how you came to this conclusion. The entire story, from beginning to end, revolves around the Exile and her beautiful Wound. Nihilus wants to eat her, Scion wants to murder/rape her, and Kreia wants her to save the universe. The Jedi Masters view her as a terrible threat, Atris has an envy/hate girl-boner for her, all the PCs either want to f*ck her or use her for something, and the entire prologue revolves around her sale to a galactic crime lord. The game is more about her than the first was ever about Revan...And he's right, the first game did stroke your ego. By making you the guy who single handedly won a war and caused another one. But you're not given the Divine Right of Awesomeness that the Exile is. In #1, the focus is actually more on acquiring Bastila. The Vulkars want to sell her, the Sith want to capture her, and Carth wants to rescue her. Taris dies because of Malak's desire for Bastila. Revan didn't enter in anyone's equation for a while. And even when he did, only Bastila (not even the player) knew about it. Then the focus switches to the Star Forge and stopping Malak, via both Revan and Bastila. He's not the be all-end-all.
And the characters actually treat Revan... appropriately, I want to say. To Bastila he's important as a means of victory, identity (as a worthy Jedi), and as a love interest. Everyone else treats you not as a god to be worshiped and protected and fawned over (like the Exile), but as a comrade (Carth, albeit suspiciously), a buddy (Mission), and debtor (Big Z), a leader/"employer" (Canderous), an inspiration (Juhani), an object of destiny (Jolee), and an owner/maker (the droids). They stick around for clear and varied reasons, not "because you're a natural leader who magnets people in to service via Force bonds"/who kicks so much ass and whom everybody needs. What a cop out way of not giving your character roster proper motivation.
2.) See second-last point. I'm role playing as one character (who is apparently pre-Anakin space Jesus). I don't want the spectator camera to substitute as a conduit of character growth and insight.
3.) See previous relevant point.
4.) Irrelevant to the point I was making. See #3.
5.) See #4.
6.) You're still missing the point (or maybe not by now, if you read that^ up there, but I'll recap).
First, the Matrix and Romeo + Juliet aren't interactive (yet), so the ability to influence what direction the story/protagonists take is non-existent. Unlike video-games.
Second, ominousness only works when there's something at stake. By creating fuzzy, confused motivations for the main character, I don't feel what's at stake, other than simply finishing the game. And literally showing us that the person closest to you is evil, deceitful, prone to machinations and scheming, take away all suspense and tension, and depletes the Ominous Tanks even more. The dark and sinister atmosphere the game tries to sow may have worked, had they not allowed Kreia to eliminate any sense of angst or purpose.[/b]
I prefer to space things out rather than making huge lists or blocks of text. That way, I don't have to scroll up to see what I'm replying to again and again. 🙁
1. Yes, the Exile is an important part of the plot and yes it's way more of a personal story to do with the Exile than Kotor 1 was, but the Exile isn't everything about the story. As I've said, the characters have their own things going on. Kreia, Mandalore, G0-T0 and even the Disciple all have their own agenda's separate from the Exiles. Their plots don't revolve around the Exile. That's why I keep saying that theres more to the story than just the Exile. The story is not just about her, its also about these other characters as well. Most of the cast have their own sub-plots that happen concurrent to the main plot. The only difference with theirs and the cast of Kotor 1's is that they're not just personal side-quests, and a few of them are done without the Exiles knowledge.
I think you're overstating how the characters treat you in Kotor II. The only three who get that into you are Visas with her creepy submissive thing, Kreia for her own reasons and love interest Brianna. Other than them, the game doesn't treat the Exile as that hot of a shit. You're only special because of a freak accident you had no real control over and because you're the last Jedi left. No-one follows you purely because you're Space Jesus, they all have their own reasons. Atton's stuck with you and then just becomes personally invested in the plot and you after a while, Bao-Dur follows you because he just can't move past Malachor, the Disciple is
Spoiler:
spying on you for the Republic
, Brianna is dealing with her issues with the Force and working through her parent issues, G0-T0 sees you as the Republic's best shot at survival and of stopping the Sith, Visas is weirdly submissive and slightly crazy and Hanharr and Mandalore were blackmailed into it. And droids. Only Mira has no good reason to be following you (because she wants to collect your bounty?) and she is one of the least interesting character tbh.
Also the Force Bond thing wasn't a cop-out, it was a deconstruction of RPG mechanics because that's how Avellone rolls.
2. Well tough. You'll accept the game cutting away to showcase Malak but you won't here? There's still plenty of character growth that the Exile deals with herself. Its only hints and small details that get revealed that way.
3. Which is? Do you think they shouldn't have been establsihed or do you not?
4 + 5. Lame.
6. And we're always bound by limitations in video games. You can't fly off to Coruscant either, a limitation of your ability to affect the plot that no-one cares about because duh. Just like no-one (but you really) cares about reacting to things the Exile doesn't know because duh. You can only accept these limitations and. in this case, know that you were shown these scenes for a reason and that eventually something will come of it.
This is the part I don't understand. Were you not intrigued even a little to learn what Atton was hiding? Don't you think that knowing that the person closest to you is evil and not being able to do anything about is only heightens the tension? It feels like you're not giving the game a chance here. And it just confuses me.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's not, it's just a final straw. On top of the unclear motivations, tedious Telos stage, spoiled villain, unconvincing atmosphere, unlikeable secondary characters, and technical peeves (Xbox version tends to lag in places, and the plethora of items and massive cash flow slows the pace of the game to a halt), that by the time the unnatural feeling expositions starts coming in via the cutscenes, I usually call it quits.
Well ok I guess. I'm not saying the game is perfect and I can agree with a few of these points, just as long as you're not making a mountain out of this molehill.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
More like the most boring character in the game. But unlike the other PCs, he's the only one not radiating dark-mystery-edgy-toughness. So it's a welcome change.
Oh please, Atton doesn't radiate any of that. He's a smart-mouthed doof most of the time. Its only in one or 2 conversations that he drops the act. Also Brianna, Visas or the droids are none of those things. Thats like, half the cast.
Also you forgot that he's a spy and has a secret-past involving the Exile, so he might qualify for 'mysterious' as well.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Nope, and good thing too, because as far as I can remember, Star Wars doesn't do "themes". You know, beyond good vs. evil.
Now that was just an offensive and ignorant thing to say. God forbid we actually have intelligent story-telling in Star Wars. 🙄
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Okay, here's where that "one-note" line isn't an exaggeration--you just identified it for me. The game plays the "wounded" tune to the nth degree, and it's stifling and boring. Hell, the first game had "wounded" PCs whose problems you fixed too, and that game pulled it off without the overwhelming cryptic bleakness of Dark Mystery Edgy Tough. The game's atmosphere wears out its welcome for me. Everything is just so f*cking dark, and it doesn't make it better. See: Revenge of the Sith.
Well I'm sorry about that. I suppose that's just the risk you take when you go for an extreme tone; some people won't like it. Kotor II isn't as bleak as something like Dark Souls though. There are plenty of moments of levity or optimism. You want bleak, you play you some Souls.