Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dave Filoni gets it.
First: Nice to know Dave's opinion on stuff. Unfortunatelly, he is not George Lucas, rendering his statements useless to proof anything short of his own view on certain things.
Secondly: I'm aware of the fact, that you aren't familiar with literary theories, but citing the author on his work in order to proof something has been out of fashion since the 1960s, when this guy released that thing.
Which applies on all forms of fictionary works, including that nice choreographed fight between Sidious and the two Zabraks.
Thirdly: Apparently, everybody working for LFL has quite the problem with orchestrating fights in a clear cut fashion. If they want to show how Sidious stomps - why don't they just do it?
If Sidious had walked into the room and, after smashing the brothers into the next wall, would have proceeded to slaughter them on the spot, with just seconds for Savage to live and some more before Maul being disarmed - there wouldn't be anything to argue. And given how Yoda completely destroys Ventress with the Force in the first Clone Wars episode, there wouldn't have been much to complain about such a display of power.
But watching the fight as it is and conclude "Ololol, Sidious roxxors" can just be done by rabid Sidious fanboys. Of course he is superior to the duo, especially in terms of force abilities. But with the boot to his face, the instances in which he almost gets cut and that nice snarling before pushing Maul suggest, that it wasn't just a piece of cake for him, to challenge the brothers with his lightsabers.
Most of the respect threads are up Temp. The only other one I'm probably actually going to do is The Grand Champion of the Great Hunt one (Bounty Hunter class), and I might not get to that until I finish the storyline.
Intrepid and XSUPREMEXSKILLZ (I hate typing that name) made a few as well.
So there, you're primer on the major SWTOR characters is pretty much done. You can read them and figure out how you rate the characters by yourself.
I was mostly posting it for Q99 and DARTH POWER anyway, but I can't say I'm unamused by the unintended response.
I especially enjoyed the irony of a man who repeatedly uses directorial commentary against Sidious criticizing me for posting directorial commentary for Sidious. 😂
well done, my English manservant.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
All I did was share some commentary from Dave (without ANY argument or point to be made) and you and Janus are openly seething?😂
But of course, Gideon. The context in which such statements were to be used in is somewhat unclear, with the debates currently running in this very subforum. 🙄
And "seething"? 😂 Because of making commentaries about some quotes? What an odd behavior in a forum designed to debate such things. I must have missed people throwing temper-tantrums and throwing insults in your general direction somewhere, though.
Not that I'm not used to you imagining "victories" when Janus and myself are concerned, since real ones are so sadly non-existant and - considering your postings against Janus in the last few days - out of question for the future as well.
😄 😉
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I was mostly posting it for Q99 and DARTH POWER anyway,
Well I'm always keen to know what Filoni thinks, especially since the guy does talk to Lucas on a daily basis. Although he has also made it clear in that interview that they always wanted an epic lightsaber fight.
Which straight away suggests they didn't want anything close to the horrid screen time that was Sidious vs Tiin, Kolar and Fisto.
Sorry for double post.
Originally posted by Nai
Thirdly: Apparently, everybody working for LFL has quite the problem with orchestrating fights in a clear cut fashion. If they want to show how Sidious stomps - why don't they just do it?If Sidious had walked into the room and, after smashing the brothers into the next wall, would have proceeded to slaughter them on the spot, with just seconds for Savage to live and some more before Maul being disarmed - there wouldn't be anything to argue. And given how Yoda completely destroys Ventress with the Force in the first Clone Wars episode, there wouldn't have been much to complain about such a display of power.
In my opinion, they simply wanted to put Sidious' powers and lightsaber skills on display. He could've owned them with the Force had he wanted, yet he chose to battle them wielding dual sabers [something we had never seen Sidious do]. It's pretty clear the fight is meant to demonstrate Sidious' absolute superiority over the brothers, just in a flashy and fun-to-watch kind of way.
Why else would they show Sidious wielding two lightsabers and using a perfect Jar'Kai? The fact that he was wielding two certainly doesn't suggest he actually needed to do so in order to defeat them. It's just flashier.
But watching the fight as it is and conclude "Ololol, Sidious roxxors" can just be done by rabid Sidious fanboys.. [
Sidious does ****ing rock.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well I'm always keen to know what Filoni thinks,
That's why I knew you'd appreciate the remarks, regardless if you agreed with them.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
especially since the guy does talk to Lucas on a daily basis. Although he has also made it clear in that interview that they always wanted an epic lightsaber fight.Which straight away suggests they didn't want anything close to the horrid screen time that was Sidious vs Tiin, Kolar and Fisto.
Given how Sidious vs. the B-team has been criticized by fans and staff alike, I'm not surprised. Sidious walks in, shows he can end the fight whenever he wants, but courts battle because, in Filoni's own words, he enjoys it.
Thus Maul and Savage get to last longer than 2 seconds and Sidious gets ample opportunity to show off.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Given how Sidious vs. the B-team has been criticized by fans and staff alike, I'm not surprised. Sidious walks in, shows he can end the fight whenever he wants, but courts battle because, in Filoni's own words, he enjoys it.
My. Using that logic, Asajj Ventress can totally destroy the team of Anakin / Obi-Wan because she managed to force choke both of them together. The same goes for Savage, who goes even one better with his choking of Ventress and Dooku.
The capability of catching two opponents with a force attack is apparently not proof that the one making the attack can WTFpwn his "victims" whenever he wants.
Hence I said: They should have come up with some entirely new levels of ownage there. Why not the Yoda version: Sidious walks in, they ignite their lightsabers and charge him. He uses the force to stop them dead, as Yoda did with Ventress, pulls their weapons away, inspects them and then gives them back to proceed and own their asses in combat. Why not force force crush one of them or dissolve the magic binding Maul's new legs in place. Or hold one of them in a force choke whiling duelling the other?
There are so many options to make Sidious look all powerful, and they pick none of them, but instead let him showcase his force abilities in a fashion that lesser people have used against more powerful opposition and let him take some hits in the actual fighting.
Thus Maul and Savage get to last longer than 2 seconds and Sidious gets ample opportunity to show off. [/B]
When somebody "shows off" I expect him to be in total control of the fight, instead of giving ground, receiving a boot to the face and making snarling noises before getting rid of Maul (force push). There is nothing wrong with Sidious stomping them into the ground. He did train Maul in a fashion to be able to undo him after all, and Savage was not quite on par with his brother. As far as I'm concerned, he could have strolled in just to rip them into pieces with the force or completely batter them down with his lightsabers.
But that is still not what is depicted on screen. He can laugh and amuse himself and not take the fight seriously all the way, but he still doesn't "stomp" them.
And just for the record, Petrus: I would have found it even more impressive and especially, more interesting, if Sidious had come with just one lightsaber, to utilize that in a unusual fashion (Trakata moves; telekinetic lightsaber combat; extreme speed etc.).
Ventress and Opress performing a one-off feat while in the throes of extreme rage isn't comparable to Sidious pinning the Zabraks effortlessly and while laughing.
By my count, Sidious lands about 16 hits on the brothers in terms of direct blows and Force manipulation. The brothers, between them, land two. If you want to pretend that such a score is reflective of an intensely difficult battle, be my guest.
The supervising director has consistently and repeatedly made clear what the battle was intended to reflect and the general consensus around the intwebz that I've seen is that Sidious cleaned house.
Feel free to disagree, but there it is. As far as the majority seems to be concerned, it was very clearly depicted on screen.
Sidious's superiority over the duo was clearly shown. But I'm with Nai on the fact that we should go by the fight shown. If Sidious could Saber blitz the duo then he should have done just that. Otherwise there's nothing telling the audience he can do that.
The Tiin/Kolar/Fisto blitz was terrible because it made those Jedi look like Noobs instead of making Sidious look Uber. The Maul/Opress battering however made Sidious look really powerful, especially after building up for several episodes how powerful those 2 are and then making an Epic duel out of it.
Otherwise if Maul and Opress can't even put up a fight and you want to show Sidious being Uber or in an "Epic" fight, then have him fight Talzin and Maul on Dathomir or something. But it was actually Lucas who stated he wanted Maul and Sidious to fight btw, which Filoni explains in part 1 of that interview. And I doubt Lucas meant he wanted Sidious to blitz Maul, or dance around him.