DS
Swimming alone on a friday night again, as usual?
Who the hell swims in a jacuzzi? Have you ever been in one? If not, I recommend it. (I realize Jews such as yourself tend to avoid machines with unusually high temperatures and have done so since the '40s, but now's the time to transcend such trivial phobias.)
And I'm never alone, just ask your mother.
o snap
Originally posted by RagingBoner
😐It's really weird how you go from being Jekyll on most subjects to Hyde when it comes to Nihilus and the Joker as villains. You do understand that people can prefer other characters to the ones you like, right? And that people don't have to agree that any specific character is the best villain of all time, right?
I do understand that. But do you understand that we are talking about who is objectively the greatest villian of all time, as opposed to who is merely our personal favourite?
If not that would explain some of the things you've been saying these last few pages.
N.
talking about who is objectively the greatest villian of all time, as opposed to who is merely our personal favourite?
😂
How are you going to determine who is objectively the greatest villain of all time? What's the standard criteria for such a determination? Where and what is the authority on selecting such a character? The rulebook, the guidelines?
I never claimed to know who the exact answer to this question, which is why we're discussing it, nimrod. I was making the point that when talking about who is the greatest villain of all time we can't just pick our favourites but should use actual and mostly objective critieria such as strength of personality, character development, themes, dialogue blah blah etc.
N.
I never claimed to know who the exact answer to this question, which is why we're discussing it, nimrod. I was making the point that when talking about who is the greatest villain of all time we can't just pick our favourites but should use objective critieria such as strength of personality, character development, themes, dialogue blah blah etc.
All of this, though, is subjective. How do you determine a strong personality? I would argue that Palpatine has a strong personality; you'd be inclined to disagree. Character development? Do you mean evolution of the character? Growth and maturation? Neither the Joker nor Palpatine have that; they're completely static. Themes? What about themes? The Joker's theme is the perpetuation of chaos, Palpatine's is the acquisition of power. Which one is more compelling? How do we determine that?
All of this, though, is subjective. How do you determine a strong personality? I would argue that Palpatine has a strong personality; you'd be inclined to disagree.
Which is why we are discussing it through the use of evidence. If you can bring forth proof that Palpatine isn't just the cackling stock villain which I believe him to be then I will gladly conceed that he has an actual personality to him rather than UNLIMITED POWAAAAH!
Character development? Do you mean evolution of the character? Growth and maturation? Neither the Joker nor Palpatine have that; they're completely static.
Perhaps character development was not the right choice of words. I meant more how the character is developed in the story. How his character is presented to the audience and the overall effectiveness of this etc.
Themes? What about themes? The Joker's theme is the perpetuation of chaos, Palpatine's is the acquisition of power. Which one is more compelling? How do we determine that?
Through discussion obviously. But also by looking at the strength of their themeatic worth in relation to the text and how it relates to the audience.
Basically in the same way you think you can prove that Palpatine is the most powerful Sith I think I can prove that the Joker is the strongest character.
edit: Also the Joker is not the perpetuation of chaos, As I tolde you, that was a bunch of BS he was feeding Dent.
Aside: ZIM WILL RULE!
N.
Basically in the same way you think you can prove that Palpatine is the most powerful Sith I think I can prove that the Joker is the strongest character.
But these are two entirely separate and unrelated issues. Assessing a character's combat abilities or metaphysical strength is something that can be measured objectively; what you're seeking to discuss can't be done. We can't even agree on what standards to use. I can argue Character X is stronger than Character Y because he or she might visibly perform better in combat; X might lift more than Y, might move faster than Y, might defeat Y in a fight. We can't objectively measure which villain is better other than in a very limited set of criterion, which you have no interest in discussing. (I refer to intellect, achievement, strength, etc. etc.) You might find the Joker charismatic; I don't find charisma in psychopaths acting psychotic. I find nothing endearing or alluring in raging maniacs, which is why I don't find Darth Sidious charismatic unless he's adopting his guise as Palpatine, a reasonable, mild-mannered authority figure.
N.
Well then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
That's the point, isn't it?
Preference is preference. When Z. and I were going back and forth about Nihilus, I told you both straight up that I have absolutely zero problem with you all liking him more than any character. Who am I to regulate that? Who am I to tell you that Nihilus isn't charismatic or compelling or whatnot other than in my own opinion.
Which is what I echoed early on. There is no "objective" measurement that will put the Joker above Palpatine or vice versa, which is why it's absolutely asinine to get belligerent on such a subjective topic.
Which is why we are discussing it through the use of evidence. If you can bring forth proof that Palpatine isn't just the cackling stock villain which I believe him to be then I will gladly conceed that he has an actual personality to him rather than UNLIMITED POWAAAAH!
Palpatine actually has split personalities. lol