Originally posted by Great Vengeance
No, your wrong, and you hardly even make sense. Your an M.D. ? I very much doubt that.
Somehow, I managed to not give a shit what you think.
My analogy is not false, because you have as much proof of saying 'Traya can instakill Sids' as you do of saying 'reindeers can fly'. True, skepticism isnt always correct, but you have to prove us wrong first. If you have no proof, then I am naturally correct because your the one that made a positive statement, Im just being skeptical.
What in the f*ck are you talking about? Are you making this up along the way or something? When proof is not provided, skepticism is not always the automatically correct position. If that were true, there'd be no point in debating upon opinions, but only given facts. And everyone knows that's bullshit.
I feel like I am repeating myself....
You are. That's the problem.
You are the one that made a positive statement, only you have no proof to back it up. Please dont waste my time, Im just repeating an established law of reason, if you argue against it than you are a fool.
Is this some sort of idiotic joke? If I state an opinion and I don't have proof, and you come into the thread and say YOUR opinion which goes against mine and doesn't have proof as well, you're not automatically right. Jesus, it's Logical Fallacy.
Traya has only shown her instakill ability works against some jedi masters, this is no proof that it would work on somone like Sidious who has considerably more knowledge and power.
Jedi Masters = Human
Sidious = Human
Traya + Instakill = Death of Jedi
Traya + Instakill = Death of Sidious
Now, I'm not saying it'll work 100%, but she is going up against RotS Sidious, who was not quite at full power yet and there is not evidence of him being able to use his instakill during that time period. And seeing as in this particular predicament, Traya CAN use it and Sidious cannot, and Sidious is a Human like a Jedi Master . . . It is safe to assume that she could utilize her Instakill on Sidious.
I have no proof that you are wrong, but that doesnt matter. Unless you can back up your claim, your whole point is moot. I dont see why you cant get this through your head.
So is yours. Damn, you're pretty arrogant.
You can't refute my proofless point with another proofless point and state you're automatically right. Hello? That's damn ridiculous! Especially when you haven't made any figurative points against my claim that are even sufficient to any degree to even deteriorate my opinions and claims by one bit.
Stop using this lame, phony excuse that you're automatically right and try actually putting up a relevant argument instead of this semantics bullshit.
Basically, Stop dancing around the point.
Is it safe to assume she can use her instakill before Sidious kills her with another attack, if he doesn't know the drain which, considering he's a devouring darkness and a black hole in the force?
Sidious is already powerful enough to fight the strongest Jedi Master ever...Traya's a bit over her head
Originally posted by Xavius
Somehow, I managed to not give a shit what you think.
Okay.
What in the f*ck are you talking about? Are you making this up along the way or something? When proof is not provided, skepticism is not always the automatically correct position. If that were true, there'd be no point in debating upon opinions, but only given facts. And everyone knows that's bullshit.
Just because you dont seem to understand the concept, doesnt make it wrong. When proof or atleast valid reasoning is not provided, your argument is moot. Im not the one making claims here, is this concept beyond you somehow? Oh and yes there is no point in debating about opinions, nothing gets accomplished.
Pizza vs Steak... which taste better?
Do you really think anything worthwhile would come out of a debate like this?
Is this some sort of idiotic joke? If I state an opinion and I don't have proof, and you come into the thread and say YOUR opinion which goes against mine and doesn't have proof as well, you're not automatically right. Jesus, it's Logical Fallacy.
For a supposed M.D. you sure are immature. And once again, Im not arguing on either side of the debate. Im just pointing out that your arguments for Traya winning, have no proof, and are therefore invalid. Skepticism prevails in the absence of proof, as I have already explained multiple times. Kreias instakill ability cant be used in this debate, without sufficient evidence backing why it could work on Sidious.
Jedi Masters = Human
Sidious = HumanTraya + Instakill = Death of Jedi
Traya + Instakill = Death of Sidious
Now, I'm not saying it'll work 100%, but she is going up against RotS Sidious, who was not quite at full power yet and there is not evidence of him being able to use his instakill during that time period. And seeing as in this particular predicament, Traya CAN use it and Sidious cannot, and Sidious is a Human like a Jedi Master . . . It is safe to assume that she could utilize her Instakill on Sidious.
This is what I was asking for, an actual attempt at proving why the instakill would work in this context. Unfortunately, your argument is fallacious.
Did my comment about power and knowledge go completely over your head? The fact that Sidious is of the same race as the jedi masters, is completely irrelevent. You have to prove why the instakill would work on somone with Sidious' power and knowledge, and I really dont see how you could support that theory, being we know so little about the instakill and how it works.
In short, Kreias instakill is an unknown, and we cant just assume it would work just because in your opinion it would.
Continue the Sids vs Kreia debate, without resorting to useless speculation.
Just because you dont seem to understand the concept, doesnt make it wrong. When proof or atleast valid reasoning is not provided, your argument is moot. Im not the one making claims here, is this concept beyond you somehow? Oh and yes there is no point in debating about opinions, nothing gets accomplished.
Don't attempt to degrade my intelligence. It's foolish. I'm not the one making shit up here. If I make a claim that is an opinion, you cannot sit here and expect to be right by posting another opinion. It's complete Logical Fallacy. You're sitting here directly lying to me. You look like a total moron.
Pizza vs Steak... which taste better?Do you really think anything worthwhile would come out of a debate like this?
So, by your twisted Logic, I come and say Pizza tastes better. You come in and say your skeptical view, being that steak tastes better. So, because you were the skeptic in the argument, Steak automatically tastes better?
^ That's looks outright ridiculous, doesn't it?
For a supposed M.D. you sure are immature. And once again, Im not arguing on either side of the debate. Im just pointing out that your arguments for Traya winning, have no proof, and are therefore invalid. Skepticism prevails in the absence of proof, as I have already explained multiple times. Kreias instakill ability cant be used in this debate, without sufficient evidence backing why it could work on Sidious.
MD's aren't deities. Go away with that.
You're retort - going against me saying it WON'T work is EQUALLY INVALID. Are you even grasping that concept yet? Or do I have to spoon feed it to you?
Yuo have no evidence declaring how it wouldn't work on Sidious. Actually, it's the other way around. If you have no evidence to slot out my opinion and you're only clashing my opinion with another Opinion, we've stalemated. Stop thinking you've won by some pseudo default. It's ridiculous.
This is what I was asking for, an actual attempt at proving why the instakill would work in this context. Unfortunately, your argument is fallacious.Did my comment about power and knowledge go completely over your head? The fact that Sidious is of the same race as the jedi masters, is completely irrelevent. You have to prove why the instakill would work on somone with Sidious' power and knowledge, and I really dont see how you could support that theory, being we know so little about the instakill and how it works.
Hahaha! My turn!
No, it's not so much irrelevant. This is a known reason for a working drain to be administered upon Sidious. What we know about the instakill says it all with the title; It instantly kills! It killed extremely powerful Jedi Masters and Sidious wasn't extremely powerful in RotS like he is later on.
I'm sorry, but do you even HAVE a valid argument on how the Instakill would not work? Y'know . . . Besides the irrelevant phony guidelines you like to slap down in an attempt to escape the core of the actual debate.
That's exactly what you're doing. It's going to be funny seeing you deny it . . . Again.
In short, Kreias instakill is an unknown, and we cant just assume it would work just because in your opinion it would.
We can't just assume it would not work because in your opinion, it would NOT. Her instakill is an unknown? Let's see . . . It instakilled Jedi Masters. Instantly. Get it yet?
Continue the Sids vs Kreia debate, without resorting to useless speculation.
Like I mentioned earlier, quit dancing around the point. You're embarassing yourself utterly.
Funny, I checked it and you didn't reply to everything I said.
Why is that, GV?
Originally posted by Xavius
Don't attempt to degrade my intelligence. It's foolish. I'm not the one making shit up here. If I make a claim that is an opinion, you cannot sit here and expect to be right by posting another opinion. It's complete Logical Fallacy. You're sitting here directly lying to me. You look like a total moron.
I wouldnt attempt to degrade your intelligence, if you were actually intelligent.
Do you realize how foolish you sound? Okay...lets go over this again.
When you make the statement, "Traya can use her instakill to defeat Sidious." That is what is called a positive.
When I am skeptical of that claim, that is what is called a negative.
Im *not* saying this method is infallible, but until you actually give some proof that your claim is true...skepticism prevails. This is in accordance with the scientific method. Im afraid you are the one that looks like a total moron, sir.
So, by your twisted Logic, I come and say Pizza tastes better. You come in and say your skeptical view, being that steak tastes better. So, because you were the skeptic in the argument, Steak automatically tastes better?
WTF ?
If I came in and said, 'the Steak tastes better', that is a positive. Your logic is completely unrelated to what we are talking about.
MD's aren't deities. Go away with that.
They arent deities, but I wouldnt expect them to be calling people names on an internet forum either.
You're retort - going against me saying it WON'T work is EQUALLY INVALID. Are you even grasping that concept yet? Or do I have to spoon feed it to you?Yuo have no evidence declaring how it wouldn't work on Sidious. Actually, it's the other way around. If you have no evidence to slot out my opinion and you're only clashing my opinion with another Opinion, we've stalemated. Stop thinking you've won by some pseudo default. It's ridiculous.
I never said that it not working on Sidious was infallible truth, all Im saying is until you prove otherwise we cant just assume it *would* work as opposed to it *not* working. The logic doesnt go both ways sorry. If we just assumed that peoples theorys were automatically true, without evidence of it, how would we acquire true knowledge? We wouldnt.
No, it's not so much irrelevant. This is a known reason for a working drain to be administered upon Sidious. What we know about the instakill says it all with the title; It instantly kills! It killed extremely powerful Jedi Masters and Sidious wasn't extremely powerful in RotS like he is later on.
...
Do you really think 'It instantly kills' applies to all situations? When in the history of SW has ever a technique been proven to be unblockable? Support your theory that it is unblockable or otherwise prove that it would work against an opponent of Sidious' magnitude.
I'm sorry, but do you even HAVE a valid argument on how the Instakill would not work? Y'know . . . Besides the irrelevant phony guidelines you like to slap down in an attempt to escape the core of the actual debate.
If sound logic is 'phony guidelines to a debate', then sure Im guilty.
We can't just assume it would not work because in your opinion, it would NOT. Her instakill is an unknown? Let's see . . . It instakilled Jedi Masters. Instantly. Get it yet?
That is only proof that it would work against jedi of comparable strength or weaker. The power has limits, and those limits arent defined yet. Or are you going to tell me the instakill is unlimited power? Kreia could wipe out the entire universe if she wanted to?
Like I mentioned earlier, quit dancing around the point. You're embarassing yourself utterly.
Embarassing myself? I think an M.D. who comes to an internet site, debates with random people who have much less education than himself, and *still* gets completely pwned is the only embarassment here.
Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
You fail to realize that she may not be able to insta-kill Sith Lords After all why not do it to Sion or Nihilus when he confronted her.
Traya needed to use Sion. Notice how later on in the game, Sion is virtually under Traya's wing? They're talking . . . Walking around, and he was in the Dark Academy with her on Malachor.
Yes, because Traya is dumb enough to off a Sith Lord that can seemingly not die.
I wouldnt attempt to degrade your intelligence, if you were actually intelligent.
Childish insults. Disregarded. Let's move on now.
Do you realize how foolish you sound? Okay...lets go over this again.
Attempted, yet failed verbal degration. Let's continue.
When you make the statement, "Traya can use her instakill to defeat Sidious." That is what is called a positive.When I am skeptical of that claim, that is what is called a negative.
Traya can use her instakill. + Traya can't use her instakill = Debate over opinion. No side automatically wins. Get that through your head.
Im *not* saying this method is infallible, but until you actually give some proof that your claim is true...skepticism prevails. This is in accordance with the scientific method. Im afraid you are the one that looks like a total moron, sir.
Even though I am a Medical Doctor, Science is a theory. Some laws in Science are fallible even though it is a working system through theory. This is a debate. The laws of debating are as follows:
Opinion VS Opinion = Debate.
No side wins until valid proof is PROVIDED on one side. If there are two opinions, no one side can virtually be a given victor. One side has to provide proof to smash the other sides theory.
WTF ?If I came in and said, 'the Steak tastes better', that is a positive. Your logic is completely unrelated to what we are talking about.
No, no, no . . . But, by your logic, If I'm challenging the Pizza with a negative, than the Steak has to win! It has to! That's what you're telling me.
"I think Steak tastes better than Pizza."
"I think Pizza tastes better than Steak."
^ Spot the negative, GV?
They arent deities, but I wouldnt expect them to be calling people names on an internet forum either.
This isn't TV, bro. We aren't perfect.
.
I never said that it not working on Sidious was infallible truth, all Im saying is until you prove otherwise we cant just assume it *would* work as opposed to it *not* working. The logic doesnt go both ways sorry. If we just assumed that peoples theorys were automatically true, without evidence of it, how would we acquire true knowledge? We wouldnt.
Okay, If I say "Traya can use Instakill on Sidious" And you say "No, she cannot". You do not automatically win. We STALEMATE.
You have to provide proof that puts my theory to shit and I have to do the same to you. So we stalemate. No sides wins by default. That's ridiculous.
Do you really think 'It instantly kills' applies to all situations? When in the history of SW has ever a technique been proven to be unblockable? Support your theory that it is unblockable or otherwise prove that it would work against an opponent of Sidious' magnitude.
Whose ever blocked a Force Grip? A Force push? Where's the proof a Force Drain is blockable? Especially one of heavy amounts of power? I mean, there were THREE deadly Jedi Masters. Why didn't they even try to block it? Maybe because they could not.
If sound logic is 'phony guidelines to a debate', then sure Im guilty.
Sound logic? I think not, GV.
That is only proof that it would work against jedi of comparable strength or weaker. The power has limits, and those limits arent defined yet. Or are you going to tell me the instakill is unlimited power? Kreia could wipe out the entire universe if she wanted to?
Now you're going to assume? Damn.
Who said she could wipe out the whole universe and who said it had unlimited power? All I said was Sidious wasn't as powerful as he would become later on after RotS and he may still be vulnerable to such a powerful Sith Lord such as Traya. I mean, she proved her power by instantly destroying three Jedi Council Members.
Embarassing myself? I think an M.D. who comes to an internet site, debates with random people who have much less education than himself, and *still* gets completely pwned is the only embarassment here.
Self proclaimed pwnage? You arrogant shit. I can't believe you. You're not pwning anyone here. And I'm person like everyone else for f*cks sakes. You're some random guy who's coming to internet site debating with random people as well, Hypocrite.
I have knowledge in Scientific Biology and Medicines. It does NOT make me Uber.
Originally posted by Xavius
Attempted, yet failed verbal degration. Let's continue.
You mean, degradation ? What the hell do you call stating I am a moron ? Hypocrite much?
Traya can use her instakill. + Traya can't use her instakill = Debate over opinion. No side automatically wins. Get that through your head.
Okay...Im sick of arguing this with you.
You *cannot* turn over the burden of proof on *me*, to do so would be logical fallacy
Even though I am a Medical Doctor, Science is a theory. Some laws in Science are fallible even though it is a working system through theory. This is a debate. The laws of debating are as follows:Opinion VS Opinion = Debate.
No side wins until valid proof is PROVIDED on one side. If there are two opinions, no one side can virtually be a given victor. One side has to provide proof to smash the other sides theory.
See above. It is still my responsibility to disprove your arguments, which I have been doing. But you cannot say that the debate is a stalemate because the negative fails to offer proof. That is called, the negative proof fallacy.
No, no, no . . . But, by your logic, If I'm challenging the Pizza with a negative, than the Steak has to win! It has to! That's what you're telling me."I think Steak tastes better than Pizza."
"I think Pizza tastes better than Steak."
^ Spot the negative, GV?
Well first of all, I meant that example as an example of conflicting opinions. BOTH conclusions you could make, are invalid because it is not backed by proper logical reasoning or evidence. This example is unrelated to a proper debate.
And you are equating the Pizza and Steak with :
'Traya can use the instakill on Sidious'
'Traya cannot use the instakill on Sidious'
That is fallacious, and you know it.
Okay, If I say "Traya can use Instakill on Sidious" And you say "No, she cannot". You do not automatically win. We STALEMATE.You have to provide proof that puts my theory to shit and I have to do the same to you. So we stalemate. No sides wins by default. That's ridiculous. [/B]
I have put your theory to shit, your argument is plagued with assumptions and speculation.
To say it is a stalemate, because I cannot *prove* you are wrong, is the burden of proof fallacy.
Whose ever blocked a Force Grip? A Force push? Where's the proof a Force Drain is blockable? Especially one of heavy amounts of power? I mean, there were THREE deadly Jedi Masters. Why didn't they even try to block it? Maybe because they could not.
First of all, force grip, push and drain doesnt instakill like Kreias move does. The entire problem of this, is you are just assuming Kreia can wave her hand and Sidious simply dies. That is a ridiculous assumption, being Sidious is far more knowledgable and powerful than some jedi masters.
Even if they couldnt block it, your missing the point, where is the proof that *Sidious* cant block it? You have absolutely none.
Kreias instakill, once again, is an unknown, that hasnt been properly defined yet, so we cant apply it in the context of this fight.
Sound logic? I think not, GV.
Worthless comment, 'disregarded'.
Now you're going to assume? Damn.Who said she could wipe out the whole universe and who said it had unlimited power? All I said was Sidious wasn't as powerful as he would become later on after RotS and he may still be vulnerable to such a powerful Sith Lord such as Traya. I mean, she proved her power by instantly destroying three Jedi Council Members.
You seem to think Kreias ability has unlimited power, because you said 'it instantly kills' and expect that to apply to all situations. This is absurd. You have absolutely no proof or even support that it would work in all situations, all we have is that one instance it was used, when those jedi masters were killed. So now anything that is capable of killing is now an 'instakill'? Do you see the absurdity of your logic?
Also, just an observation, if Kreias 'instakill' works in all situations then why didnt she use it to defeat the Exile? Why didnt she use it to defeat Sion & Nihilus when they attacked her on Malachor? Its 'instakill' right? Infallible?
I have knowledge in Scientific Biology and Medicines. It does NOT make me Uber.
That much is obvious.