Originally posted by capt it up
yes I know it was a filler, but it was the show and seeing it the show is were all the evidence people are using is comming from then it is allowed. Also DBZ is known ,ore for the show then the manga
Dosn't matter, still isn't cannon, otherwise we would be allowed to use parts of Superman cartoons where he seemed weaker than he was.
Originally posted by Sparkz
Dosn't matter, still isn't cannon, otherwise we would be allowed to use parts of Superman cartoons where he seemed weaker than he was.
Originally posted by capt it up
superman more well known as a comic. You cant use the show as evidence period unless the maker of the thread says other wise. DBZ is mroe well known as a show so actaully the show is cannon and not the mangas as far as the KMC is concerned
But that would be a lie as the manga was the original work.
Originally posted by jinzin[/B][/QUOTE]
no we're using feats to support ourselves same as you...and yes they can transcend lightspeed I just proved they could and all you can say is NU-UH.. not a valid argument...
and you're right about IT it isn't close to lightspeed.. it's WAYYYYYYYYY faster than lightspeed the fact that you're ignoring this is ridiculous...deflecting it isn't surviving it? 😕 frieza kicked a planet destroying blast into space.. notonly that but it was another beam that would be moving times amount the speed of light.... and he did it STILL at less than 1% of his overall power...
oh please.. suped barely held out for an afternoon while fighting doomsday while an injured vegeta trained endlessly for months
NO where do DBZ characters transcend light. There is no example of any DBZ character going anywhere near the speed of light. Ive seen every episode an every movie.
The same goes with planet destruction if you paid attention you see EVERY time someone destroys a planet they use a beam or a giant ball that borrows its way to the core of a planet to destroy it, try to despute that an ill call you a moron. Never have they used a blast so big it vaporizes the planet as a WHOLE instantly, ever. ITS ALWAYS aiming their blasts at the core of the planet.
Raditz was not faster than light, its called move anticipation. If after training with King Ki Goku is faster an stronger than Raditz why did it take Goku MANY hours to go 10,000 miles? If your as fast as light that would take less that a second to get there. Answer he's not as fast as light. Meaning he cant fly as fast as light OR MOVE/DODGE the speed of light. Do you understand? YOU cant dodge faster than you can move, and he cant move the speed of light, HFS! That is absolute prove, its called common sense.
Lets see Goku SSJ4 gets hit with his own 10x Kamehameha an he's done. Gets transformed back into kid goku an Vegeta trained for months? Never did they show Vegeta train for months without rest. Every DBZ fighter is wiped out after every fight
Originally posted by jinzin[/B][/QUOTE]
no we're using feats to support ourselves same as you...and yes they can transcend lightspeed I just proved they could and all you can say is NU-UH.. not a valid argument...
and you're right about IT it isn't close to lightspeed.. it's WAYYYYYYYYY faster than lightspeed the fact that you're ignoring this is ridiculous...deflecting it isn't surviving it? 😕 frieza kicked a planet destroying blast into space.. notonly that but it was another beam that would be moving times amount the speed of light.... and he did it STILL at less than 1% of his overall power...
again you're confusing the amount of power displayed vs. the power of the person weilding it.
to bad for goku humans and saiyans only make up about a forth of the DBZ roster... 😕
they don't have to be.. they're far faster, better fighters, and more powerful....
oh please.. suped barely held out for an afternoon while fighting doomsday while an injured vegeta trained endlessly for months
if he could touch them maybe.
blasts by the end of the saiyan saga are more devistating than heat vision.... what did they do to vegeta? just pissed him off....
which also wouldn't connect.
not if they use an omnidirectional blast... and so what goku took on the onslaught of buu who had galaxy destroying power levels...
All that said, Supes can win the match easily if he goes all out.
So Superman wins basically. The DBZ support go by speculation and what they wish the DBZ characters can do, while Supes can and has done the feats.
"no we're using feats to support ourselves same as you..."
You're going by speculation. 🙂
1. DBZ characters aren't light speed, even Goku at the end wasn't close to that without IT. Supes has shown plenty of times being able to move faster then light, even his brain move at far faster speed then theirs.
"and yes they can transcend lightspeed I just proved they could and all you can say is NU-UH.. not a valid argument...
and you're right about IT it isn't close to lightspeed.. it's WAYYYYYYYYY faster than lightspeed the fact that you're ignoring this is ridiculous..."
They can't go faster then light, they never did. And Piccolo stating that Raditz is light speed never happened in the manga. Also, Gambit and other comic book and manga characters have dodged energy blasts, but that doesn't mean their light speed either.
2. DBZ characters never survived planet destroying blasts, every time Goku was faced with that, he either deflected it away or die from it (Cell). Supes has survived supernovas, wormholes, black holes, blasts from a GL rings (that are also capable of destroying planets), he's been hit by his own weaknesses like Kryptonite and redsunlight countless of times along with other types of energy blasts and was still fighting; all which are greater then the destruction of a planet. It doesn't take the destruction of the planet to really hurt a DBZ character either, they got badly hurt by physical attacks (not close to Supes in comparison) and moutain or nuking explosions; not planet destroying.
"deflecting it isn't surviving it? 😕 frieza kicked a planet destroying blast into space.. notonly that but it was another beam that would be moving times amount the speed of light.... and he did it STILL at less than 1% of his overall power..."
No deflecting isn't surviving it, it's avoiding it (and I don't think that blasts was planet destroying either, it never it the planet so we don't know).
3. They can't breath in space, Supes can. So if the planet is destroyed, he'll still be alive, they won't (except for the androids and aliens).
"to bad for goku humans and saiyans only make up about a forth of the DBZ roster... 😕"
Pay attention to my post, i actually mentioned the androids and aliens. 😕
4. None of them are physically on par with Supes. Supes can push planets (and destroy them with physical force) and even lift moutains even back in his bryne days, ssj2 Goku (at the end of the seires) struggled to push two hills apart and if we use ssj4, he struggled to push a building back in place.
"they don't have to be.. they're far faster, better fighters, and more powerful...."
It's to bad that they aren't faster, stronger, more durable, have better stamina, or better fighter then Supes.
5. Supes have far more stamina. Supes is able to fight for weeks, Goku at ssj3 could barely fight a few minutes. They have to build up allot of energy to fight, they have to be careful in using their energy blasts also, which takes away alot of stamina (they can't continously use energy blasts) Supes doesn't have to worry about that.
"oh please.. suped barely held out for an afternoon while fighting doomsday while an injured vegeta trained endlessly for months"
Currently he's able to fight for weeks, he's far stronger then he was back in the DOS arc. And Vegeta never fought for months. 😕
6. Supes attacks are fast and deadly towards them if he's bloodlusted. He can lobotimize them, just stand over them melting them with Heat Vision, he could use Ice Breath then use the previous methods, Supes could suck all the energy or air out of any of them (Superman's lungs are very strong, he was able to suck all types of energy and chemical gases, he even absorbed the Meggadon War head which can destroy half a galaxy) or use T-vo.
"if he could touch them maybe."
Which he can (easily) and will!
"which also wouldn't connect.'
Which will also connect, as many times he wants it to.
"blasts by the end of the saiyan saga are more devistating than heat vision.... what did they do to vegeta? just pissed him off...."
Heat Vision is hotter then the sun and was able to reheat Earth, they'll die as soon as Supes decides to cutloose!
"not if they use an omnidirectional blast... and so what goku took on the onslaught of buu who had galaxy destroying power levels..."
He went from planet to planet, he didn't destroy the galaxy in one simple KI blasts. And Supes is worse then Buu!
All that said, Supes can win the match easily if he goes all out. 🙂
[QUOTE=6920865]Originally posted by NPC [/B][QUOTE] NO where do DBZ characters transcend light. There is no example of any DBZ character going anywhere near the speed of light. Ive seen every episode an every movie.
The same goes with planet destruction if you paid attention you see EVERY time someone destroys a planet they use a beam or a giant ball that borrows its way to the core of a planet to destroy it, try to despute that an ill call you a moron. Never have they used a blast so big it vaporizes the planet as a WHOLE instantly, ever. ITS ALWAYS aiming their blasts at the core of the planet.
Raditz was not faster than light, its called move anticipation. If after training with King Ki Goku is faster an stronger than Raditz why did it take Goku MANY hours to go 10,000 miles? If your as fast as light that would take less that a second to get there. Answer he's not as fast as light. Meaning he cant fly as fast as light OR MOVE/DODGE the speed of light. Do you understand? YOU cant dodge faster than you can move, and he cant move the speed of light, HFS! That is absolute prove, its called common sense.
Lets see Goku SSJ4 gets hit with his own 10x Kamehameha an he's done. Gets transformed back into kid goku an Vegeta trained for months? Never did they show Vegeta train for months without rest. Every DBZ fighter is wiped out after every fight [/B][QUOTE]
They know they don't go faster then light, it's just more of their wishful thinking! 😆
once again in the sayan saga they were going so fast they were invisible even to gohan tell he had to do something speshal to see them. further more it was only stated once by Frezza that the move he used to destroy namik destroyed it's core. It was shown in the Frezza saga when Frezza destroyed planet vegeta that what he did envoloped the planet. That was a huge energy ball that did burrow itself into the planet but it exploded in the planet making it explode not just the core but the entire planet. Dvampire what are you talking about "speculation" Jinzin and others are stating feats just like you just because your speculating about dbz doesn't mean your right about the DBZ characters.
Originally posted by jasofisc
once again in the sayan saga they were going so fast they were invisible even to gohan tell he had to do something speshal to see them. further more it was only stated once by Frezza that the move he used to destroy namik destroyed it's core. It was shown in the Frezza saga when Frezza destroyed planet vegeta that what he did envoloped the planet. That was a huge energy ball that did burrow itself into the planet but it exploded in the planet making it explode not just the core but the entire planet. Dvampire what are you talking about "speculation" Jinzin and others are stating feats just like you just because your speculating about dbz doesn't mean your right about the DBZ characters.
Just because you can't be seen by others that are slower than you, doesn't mean your faster then light. Alot of characters have moved so fast in comics and manga that they weren't able to be seen by others that were slower then them, but they weren't light speed. Again, they aren't close to light speed. It was also never shown how Freiza destroyed planet Vegeta in the manga (only in the moive, which aren't cannon). Even in the movie, his Death ball attack didn't ingulf the planet, it brrowed down towards the core. As for destroying the planet, who cares, most of them can't take the blast or breath in space once they do.
but when the person is fighting right infront of you and you can't see them in an open area then they are moving so have that light isn't catching up to them. And most of them can take the blast they just can't breath in space Frezza said to Goku that he would die because he couldn't breath in space not because he couldn't take the blast. Also I thought we were using the show and the movies for this argument and the destruction of the planet Vegeta is on the show and the movie. Anyway the reason it seems like DBZ characters can't move faster then light is because the writters care less about continuity then even Dc writersl. If they can move faster then light early in the series it seems like when they get more powerfull that they should be able to move even faster.
Originally posted by NPCwrong.. I've already proven this..
NO where do DBZ characters transcend light.
Originally posted by NPCeven though I already proved that they do? 😕
There is no example of any DBZ character going anywhere near the speed of light. Ive seen every episode an every movie.
Originally posted by NPCoh so then scientifics DON'T matter here?
The same goes with planet destruction if you paid attention you see EVERY time someone destroys a planet they use a beam or a giant ball that borrows its way to the core of a planet to destroy it, try to despute that an ill call you a moron. Never have they used a blast so big it vaporizes the planet as a WHOLE instantly, ever. ITS ALWAYS aiming their blasts at the core of the planet.
You can claim I'm a "moron" all you like, it doesn't keep you from being blatently wrong here, and obviously ignoring facts that don't suit your arguments... so if you're getting your ass owned by a moron well what exactly does that make you? 🤨
Originally posted by NPCno it's not... you can't anticipate a bullet after it's been fired... radditz cought one, you can't anticipate a near lightspeed attack that's already being delivered.. radditzed dodged it with ease.
Raditz was not faster than light, its called move anticipation.
Originally posted by NPCfor the purposes of storytelling.. as I said.. akira has already admitted that he wrote himself into a plothole.. but that the plothole wasn't important it's the story that was important... and actually the distance was one million kilometers.. or well over 600 thousand miles...
If after training with King Ki Goku is faster an stronger than Raditz why did it take Goku MANY hours to go 10,000 miles?
Originally posted by NPC
If your as fast as light that would take less that a second to get there. Answer he's not as fast as light
Originally posted by NPCexactly so radditz moves akin to light speed..
Meaning he cant fly as fast as light OR MOVE/DODGE the speed of light. Do you understand? YOU cant dodge faster than you can move, .
Originally posted by NPCwell now that you've dsiplayed that you are aware that common sense exists why don't you next impress us by trying to display some?
and he cant move the speed of light, HFS! That is absolute prove, its called common sense
Originally posted by NPCyeah and? if you punched yourself in the face with a fist that was ten times more destructive than your own youwouldn't look so hot either.
Lets see Goku SSJ4 gets hit with his own 10x Kamehameha an he's done
Originally posted by NPCsure they did... he never bulma pleaded with him to leave the gravity chamber.. he refused.. while he was in the gravity chamber he never turned off the gravity.. he was training by default....
Gets transformed back into kid goku an Vegeta trained for months? Never did they show Vegeta train for months without rest. Every DBZ fighter is wiped out after every fight
Originally posted by dvampirefirst off learn how to use the multi quote button..So Superman wins basically. The DBZ support go by speculation and what they wish the DBZ characters can do, while Supes can and has done the feats.
"no we're using feats to support ourselves same as you..."
You're going by speculation. 🙂
1. DBZ characters aren't light speed, even Goku at the end wasn't close to that without IT. Supes has shown plenty of times being able to move faster then light, even his brain move at far faster speed then theirs.
"and yes they can transcend lightspeed I just proved they could and all you can say is NU-UH.. not a valid argument...
and you're right about IT it isn't close to lightspeed.. it's WAYYYYYYYYY faster than lightspeed the fact that you're ignoring this is ridiculous..."They can't go faster then light, they never did. And Piccolo stating that Raditz is light speed never happened in the manga. Also, Gambit and other comic book and manga characters have dodged energy blasts, but that doesn't mean their light speed either.
2. DBZ characters never survived planet destroying blasts, every time Goku was faced with that, he either deflected it away or die from it (Cell). Supes has survived supernovas, wormholes, black holes, blasts from a GL rings (that are also capable of destroying planets), he's been hit by his own weaknesses like Kryptonite and redsunlight countless of times along with other types of energy blasts and was still fighting; all which are greater then the destruction of a planet. It doesn't take the destruction of the planet to really hurt a DBZ character either, they got badly hurt by physical attacks (not close to Supes in comparison) and moutain or nuking explosions; not planet destroying.
"deflecting it isn't surviving it? 😕 frieza kicked a planet destroying blast into space.. notonly that but it was another beam that would be moving times amount the speed of light.... and he did it STILL at less than 1% of his overall power..."
No deflecting isn't surviving it, it's avoiding it (and I don't think that blasts was planet destroying either, it never it the planet so we don't know).
3. They can't breath in space, Supes can. So if the planet is destroyed, he'll still be alive, they won't (except for the androids and aliens).
"to bad for goku humans and saiyans only make up about a forth of the DBZ roster... 😕"
Pay attention to my post, i actually mentioned the androids and aliens. 😕
4. None of them are physically on par with Supes. Supes can push planets (and destroy them with physical force) and even lift moutains even back in his bryne days, ssj2 Goku (at the end of the seires) struggled to push two hills apart and if we use ssj4, he struggled to push a building back in place.
"they don't have to be.. they're far faster, better fighters, and more powerful...."
It's to bad that they aren't faster, stronger, more durable, have better stamina, or better fighter then Supes.
5. Supes have far more stamina. Supes is able to fight for weeks, Goku at ssj3 could barely fight a few minutes. They have to build up allot of energy to fight, they have to be careful in using their energy blasts also, which takes away alot of stamina (they can't continously use energy blasts) Supes doesn't have to worry about that.
"oh please.. suped barely held out for an afternoon while fighting doomsday while an injured vegeta trained endlessly for months"
Currently he's able to fight for weeks, he's far stronger then he was back in the DOS arc. And Vegeta never fought for months. 😕
6. Supes attacks are fast and deadly towards them if he's bloodlusted. He can lobotimize them, just stand over them melting them with Heat Vision, he could use Ice Breath then use the previous methods, Supes could suck all the energy or air out of any of them (Superman's lungs are very strong, he was able to suck all types of energy and chemical gases, he even absorbed the Meggadon War head which can destroy half a galaxy) or use T-vo.
"if he could touch them maybe."
Which he can (easily) and will!
"which also wouldn't connect.'
Which will also connect, as many times he wants it to.
"blasts by the end of the saiyan saga are more devistating than heat vision.... what did they do to vegeta? just pissed him off...."
Heat Vision is hotter then the sun and was able to reheat Earth, they'll die as soon as Supes decides to cutloose!
"not if they use an omnidirectional blast... and so what goku took on the onslaught of buu who had galaxy destroying power levels..."
He went from planet to planet, he didn't destroy the galaxy in one simple KI blasts. And Supes is worse then Buu!
All that said, Supes can win the match easily if he goes all out. 🙂
listen we can go about this forever but lets look at some basic facts...
at their better showings: (not even their best)
dbz characters move faster than light (radditz example)
DBZ characters can destroy planets without hitting the core (frieza example)
dbz characters have strength well within class 100 levels (gravity chamber)
dbz characters can survive planet destroying explosions (frieza)
dbz characters can blow up solar systems at will (brolly, cell, buu)
NOW: if you guys want to keep arguing low end feats for DBZ characters then maybe we should disgard all the high end feats of superman as well.. let's see...
-supes has been KOed by a gas station explosion so he obviously can't take a planetary explosion
-supes has struggled to lift a falling crane.. so he obviously can't move planets
-supes has been shot by green arrow and stuffed mid speed blitz by batman so he's obviously not faster than light
-supes has been straight up handled by batman in hand to hand combat and got beat down by doomsday in a physical confrontation even though he had more powers so he's obviously not that great a fighter or that smart.
-supes has failed to kill batman with a punch so he obviously can't hurt DBZ characters with them.
see there are plenty of low end showings for superman as well.. does that mean that we dbz supporters should use them as the standard for superman's limitations?
the way you supes fanboys have been arguing against DBZ high end feats, it certainly seems that way. 😕