Superman can defeat EVERY DBGT character...............combined

Originally posted by jasofisc
the only thing I want to comment on is the kid buu going from planet to planet blowing him self up when he would destroy galaxies. that was never ever stated. Goku therorized that's what kid buu was going to do to earth when they were fighting him. more superman side bias. reading into what you want from the animi and manga

oh and as for your questions at the end of your rant it's because DBZ characters can control the energy they put forth. (I know it's impossible but that's dbz for you and the only way things like that can make any since at all.)

In the anime Buu IT's from planet to planet blowing them up before teleporting to Other World to fight Krillen and the rest then going to Kaioshin's planet. In the manga he just blows up Earth then reforms and then goes to Kaioshin's planets.

Also sure they can control how much energy they put out but Vegeta went all out, Gohan's blast was full power, Super Buu's attack was full power. Yet these blast didn't destroy the galaxy just flew off into space. It even show's Super Buu's attack explode, not sure about Vegeta's. Then the fact that Majin Vegeta's explosion was full power energy in all directions yet Earth still stood.

At the least if Vegeta, at SSJ2 used a full out attack and he could destroy the world effortlessly then why didn't him blowing himself up to kill Buu destroy a lot more. I'm more inclined to believe that the weaker attacks that destroyed the planets had more with doing like what Freeza did on Namek.

Havent you heard the joke
"How many Z fighters to screw in a light bulb?

One, but it will take at least 10 episodes to do it"

Which means all those low end speed feat is used purely for entertainment.

We wouldnt have a good show if everything ended in couple of seconds.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, what he said is that they were moving too fast to track with his eyes, so he should sense their ki instead. Rorouni Kenshin characters move so fast people can't see them as well, does that make them lightspeed?

Absolute bullshit. You just have to be moving too fast for the observer's brain to process the movement. Changing speeds and direction often helps as well.

Superman has confirmed lightspeed feats, which are confirmed by measuring the distance and time it took him to reach places.

Dub error. The post you quoted even told you about this.

Kami and Mr. Popo brought it back. Furthermore, power levels are meaningless for comparing things like speed, physical strength, destructive power, etc. because the evidence shows that they simply don't scale that way.

No they have not.

That blast was nowhere near lightspeed. Normal humans in the DBU can see and track ki blasts.

No, you're just lying and misrepresenting the evidence.

no I believe it's you that are misrespresenting the evidence,

it has been proven on this forum that their last are light speed, one example was when piccolo destroyed the moon his beam got there and destroyed the planet at the same or close to the speed of light. you are just using week arguments to uphold your argument. you were lying when you said you said you were going to be fair about his.

about the human tracking the ki blast that only proves even more the control dbz have over their ki blast.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Wrong. If a gnat is buzzing around you it can be very hard to see and even seem to become invisible. That doesn't mean it's lightspeed. Are Rorouni Kenshin, Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece characters all suddenly lightspeed too?

only if there entire fight is invisible and that not even stilled superspeed people can't see it with out using some speshal technique

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Because they're huge compared to you, and they're travelling in a straight line so you can predict their path. If there was a supersonic plane the size of a human that passed a few feet in front of you you wouldn't see it.

Do some research before spouting off crap like this.

I suggest you start here: http://www.shininghalf.com/soujiro/shukuchi.html

those plains can do what ever they want an I will still see them if they are far enough away.

goku was a good enough distance away where he wasn't so close to where he would be dazed or what ever happens when you don't notice something that is close by you moving. also he wasn't far enough away to where they would seem really small when watching them. you mention the human that passed a few feet in front of you thing. That's why i mentioned open proximity meaning they were not close enough to try something like that.

research is not a fan made site, that crap unsupported fact garbage. I also can make a site and make crap up too. your research is utter useless since it's not supported.

what you and the other guy have done for the past hundred pages is ignore the damanging facts of dbz then use straw man arguments to make people seem like they are saying what they are not also you use examples that i'm and others are not even talking about. like the human a few feet in front of me crap argument. I was talking about something that is reltily close to where you can see it travling at super sonic speeds not a person or human sized object blind sighting me.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Wrong. If a gnat is buzzing around you it can be very hard to see and even seem to become invisible. That doesn't mean it's lightspeed. Are Rorouni Kenshin, Naruto, Bleach, and One Piece characters all suddenly lightspeed too?

I agree that in close proximty one fighter can apear to be invisble to the other given simlar or smaller size with out going light speed. Hercule has does that and he is diffently not light speed. the part i'm talking about is when someone who is use to fighting at high speed (though not light speed) is looking at two fighters fighting from a distance that is far away to where they would be able to see the whole thing but close enough to where the fighters do not apear to be gnat size does not see anything at all. that's is vastly differnt then what you are talking about. when an object is too close (like the gnat your talking about) it does apear to be invisible and it's not about the speed it's about the proximty to you. Same way with object of simlar size that is far away, but neither of these two things apply in what i'm talking about.

Originally posted by Kento
In the anime Buu IT's from planet to planet blowing them up before teleporting to Other World to fight Krillen and the rest then going to Kaioshin's planet. In the manga he just blows up Earth then reforms and then goes to Kaioshin's planets.

Also sure they can control how much energy they put out but Vegeta went all out, Gohan's blast was full power, Super Buu's attack was full power. Yet these blast didn't destroy the galaxy just flew off into space. It even show's Super Buu's attack explode, not sure about Vegeta's. Then the fact that Majin Vegeta's explosion was full power energy in all directions yet Earth still stood.

At the least if Vegeta, at SSJ2 used a full out attack and he could destroy the world effortlessly then why didn't him blowing himself up to kill Buu destroy a lot more. I'm more inclined to believe that the weaker attacks that destroyed the planets had more with doing like what Freeza did on Namek.

I know it's weird and not logical.. all you observations are right and i know know how to explain how a SSJ2 vegta's all power blast didn't destroy the planet when a normal sayian vegta destroyed a planet with his galictic gun. I'm sure if you were to go thought looking for that stuff with the dbz seris you could fine a lot more examples of stuff like that how "weeker characters" are able to accomplish stuff "stronger" characters are not able too. I'm just trying to go by what the writers seem to indicated and wanted. I did try and see it from your way before when I was saying that dbz characters were the strongest during the namik saga and that if they didn't really get any more stronger then that (as far as showing anything more in way of feats) that supes would be able to beat goku more times then not. but then I got called a supes fanboy from one side and a DBZ fanboy from the other. SO I'm done with being really reasonble and am going to debate like everyone else.

Originally posted by jasofisc
I know it's weird and not logical.. all you observations are right and i know know how to explain how a SSJ2 vegta's all power blast didn't destroy the planet when a normal sayian vegta destroyed a planet with his galictic gun. I'm sure if you were to go thought looking for that stuff with the dbz seris you could fine a lot more examples of stuff like that how "weeker characters" are able to accomplish stuff "stronger" characters are not able too. I'm just trying to go by what the writers seem to indicated and wanted. I did try and see it from your way before when I was saying that dbz characters were the strongest during the namik saga and that if they didn't really get any more stronger then that (as far as showing anything more in way of feats) that supes would be able to beat goku more times then not. but then I got called a supes fanboy from one side and a DBZ fanboy from the other. SO I'm done with being really reasonble and am going to debate like everyone else.

See that's the thing. Galick Gun never hit the Earth but it was a beam pointed at Earth. Freeza's blast screwed up the core who is to say that Galick Gun would or wouldn't destroy it the same way. Even in the Bardock movie when Freeza destroys planet Vegeta lava erupts out and the like before it goes boom just like what was happening on Namek. It never shows what happens when Buu blows up the planet so it can be said he just destroyed it outright with his blast or he could have also did exactly like Freeza did on Namek. That's just the way I look at it.

I assume however that Buu just blew it up outright but that's really neither here nor there.

Also for humans seeing ki blasts, if they went light speed all the people in the Buu Saga tournament that Trunks blasted at then controlled it upward would be dead before they could even realize what happened. And Goten who can control his ki even less that Trunks used his Kamekameha and everybody seen that. Piccolo and others may have control over them that well but Goten sure didn't and Trunks was very knew with his blasts also.

Piccolo blowing up the moon would assume that the blasts can go nearly the speed of light but no other times do the seem to move that fast. The fact that they can shoot ki balls one after the other before the blasts hit a target, like Vegeta did to Cell, says something. More times do they seem slower then do they seem as fast as Piccolo's was. If they could move the speed of light before the Namek saga scouring the city for the androids would have been so easy Gokou or Vegeta could have done it alone. Any fights from the saiyan saga on shouldn't be caught on tape and only obstructed by their energy they give off, and normal humans shouldn't be able to watch them. Goten and Trunks going all out, Goten and Trunks trying their hardest to beat 18, Gokou vs Cell.

There are some things that would suggest their speed in DB when Krillen and Master Roshi fight in I think the first Tournament also but again its a one time thing while the rest of their fight is easily seen along with every other fight. Going by what is most shown then they seem to be able to get bursts of speed at times that make them unable to be seen but they can't always go that fast.

As for the blast that destroy the moon would be more then likely just something to move the story along seeing as how those were two times out of all the other blasts that never seem to be as fast.

Man, you guys are awesome at arguing this stuff.

Anyway, down to the actual fighting.

Physical strength comparisons:

Superman definitely has many feats that show that he is ridiculously strong. In order to compare strength, one would have to show that DBZ characters are in the same ballpark.

Many times throughout the DBZ/GT series, fighting is shown to be so intense that even blows landing in mid-air, the shockwaves alone tear apart the ground underneath it. That would make these characters ridiculously fast and strong.

There are holes in DBZ/GT that are not logical. (Not surprising.)

All blasts should be planet-destroying blasts in almost any part of both series. Why would a character knowingly waste energy on creating a ki blast that he knows will not destroy the other character or at least critically wound the other character? Simple...IT IS FOR F@CKING ENTERTAINMENT!!! (I am not talking about porn either.)

Okay, let us assume for a minute that some of these blasts are planet destroying and they just can do magic and make it to where they dissipate into nothing despite the laws of physics violated by that logic...because this sh1t is not logical. If we assume that, then why the hell do characters get all bent out of shape when they fly through a dozen mountains and then get up after flying a few miles through mountains and they are all bloody and beat up and grumpy as hell and start grunting like they are constipated? and then when a they are shot by a blast that should be planet destroying by the logic I introduced above and sometimes the blasts don't even phase the character? Logic dictates that the DBZ character should be even more uptight and start grunting so hard he sh1ts his intestines out.

The point is, it is not logical. Anyway you try to make it logical, it is not logical. The stories are designed for idiots or at least designed for people who do not want to look into stuff like that and just simply want to enjoy it. (Again, entertainment.)

As far as comparing Superman and DBZ characters? It is not possible. No matter how hard some one tries, they cannot be compared. If you try to use physics, then you fail because there are too many violations of physics in both fantasy realms. Credit can be given to both Marvel and DC Comics for actually using legitimate science sometimes to make things seem more real. (To appeal to the more critical of readers.)

Subspace is held as a theory only by some and probably does not exist. (Alternate dimension that one can phase into that allows objects to travel a short distance in that dimension and then phase out of that dimension back into their primary dimension light years ahead of their previous point.) Hyperphototonic speed is not possible either. Wormhole travel has recently been debunked for the most part. (To me, it is the same as subspace travel.)

If someone could travel faster than they speed of light, then they would inexorably go back in time and be a dumb ass for doing it. Although, that could have many many good uses as a superhero.

If you are a DBZ fan you can illogically rationalize a DBZ character beating superman. If you are a superman fan, then you can illogically rationalize superman’s superiority.

If you wanted to pretend that there are entirely different physics for each of the universes for a comparison…then they could never beat each other because one character could not live in the other universe without either destroying the opposing universe destroying the stability in that universe or their sub-atomic particles would fly apart…assuming that they are made from the same fundamental particles as each other. Now do you guys see how ridiculous it is to try to use logic to compare the characters? You really can’t. You really do have to throw logic out of the window and make really stupid claims.

If someone says that superman would disintegrate from a kamehameha wave, then he very well mightbe right. One could even say the superman would disintergrate from a very very weak energy blast.

If someone wanted to say on the same note that DBZ characters could not match superman's strength and durability and superman would punch right through a DBZ character likethey were butter, that could be true as well.

Different physics. You have no idea how an energy blast from a DBZ character would affect any matter from the DC universe. It could be like matter meeting antimatter!!! I really wish that Toriyama and DC writers would get together and write a brief story just for entertainment purposes. It would most likely end up with Goku wining and then granting mercy on superman or vice versa.

BTW, in the DBZ universe, even the gods of the entire univese are not as strong as some of the DBZ characters!!!! If you use that logic, then compare that to the god like beings in the DC universe.

Goku was much stronger than the God of the DBZ universe. Why cannot that be used another illogical comparison? (I said illogical on purpose because all comparisons are fundementally illogical.)

Also, you cannot get around the fact that superman is indestructible many times in the DC universe...he is so indestructible sometimes that it is ridiculous. There is not getting around that!!!

Originally posted by Kento
See that's the thing. Galick Gun never hit the Earth but it was a beam pointed at Earth. Freeza's blast screwed up the core who is to say that Galick Gun would or wouldn't destroy it the same way. Even in the Bardock movie when Freeza destroys planet Vegeta lava erupts out and the like before it goes boom just like what was happening on Namek. It never shows what happens when Buu blows up the planet so it can be said he just destroyed it outright with his blast or he could have also did exactly like Freeza did on Namek. That's just the way I look at it.

I assume however that Buu just blew it up outright but that's really neither here nor there.

Also for humans seeing ki blasts, if they went light speed all the people in the Buu Saga tournament that Trunks blasted at then controlled it upward would be dead before they could even realize what happened. And Goten who can control his ki even less that Trunks used his Kamekameha and everybody seen that. Piccolo and others may have control over them that well but Goten sure didn't and Trunks was very knew with his blasts also.

Piccolo blowing up the moon would assume that the blasts can go nearly the speed of light but no other times do the seem to move that fast. The fact that they can shoot ki balls one after the other before the blasts hit a target, like Vegeta did to Cell, says something. More times do they seem slower then do they seem as fast as Piccolo's was. If they could move the speed of light before the Namek saga scouring the city for the androids would have been so easy Gokou or Vegeta could have done it alone. Any fights from the saiyan saga on shouldn't be caught on tape and only obstructed by their energy they give off, and normal humans shouldn't be able to watch them. Goten and Trunks going all out, Goten and Trunks trying their hardest to beat 18, Gokou vs Cell.

There are some things that would suggest their speed in DB when Krillen and Master Roshi fight in I think the first Tournament also but again its a one time thing while the rest of their fight is easily seen along with every other fight. Going by what is most shown then they seem to be able to get bursts of speed at times that make them unable to be seen but they can't always go that fast.

As for the blast that destroy the moon would be more then likely just something to move the story along seeing as how those were two times out of all the other blasts that never seem to be as fast.

I agree

Originally posted by dadudemon
If someone says that superman would disintegrate from a kamehameha wave, then he very well mightbe right. One could even say the superman would disintergrate from a very very weak energy blast.

If someone wanted to say on the same note that DBZ characters could not match superman's strength and durability and superman would punch right through a DBZ character likethey were butter, that could be true as well.

Different physics. You have no idea how an energy blast from a DBZ character would affect any matter from the DC universe. It could be like matter meeting antimatter!!! I really wish that Toriyama and DC writers would get together and write a brief story just for entertainment purposes. It would most likely end up with Goku wining and then granting mercy on superman or vice versa.

BTW, in the DBZ universe, even the gods of the entire univese are not as strong as some of the DBZ characters!!!! If you use that logic, then compare that to the god like beings in the DC universe.

Goku was much stronger than the God of the DBZ universe. Why cannot that be used another illogical comparison? (I said illogical on purpose because all comparisons are fundementally illogical.)

Also, you cannot get around the fact that superman is indestructible many times in the DC universe...he is so indestructible sometimes that it is ridiculous. There is not getting around that!!!

I agree I think I pointed out a little bit of that early in this thread but was shot down by the uh ah people then called a dbz fanboy (I hate the manga and animi) got pissed then left now i come on because both sides have been getting increasingly irrational and it makes me laugh. like superman is such a skilled fighter that without his powers he can take down an army with weapons and him with just fighting skills. and that goku can destroy galaxies if he wanted to. oh how I hate the toping

The argument with speed is fine Jasofisc. A normal person can move their arm so it's a blur. It's not closeness that does this. I just tested this out myself by looking in a mirror from 10 feat away.

If something vibrates at 1 HZ it will become a blur no matter how far away it is. It doesn't take much more speed than that before it becomes invisible.

I'll explain this your hand can become a blur. You can see stellar objects which are moving at vast speeds. Yet you have trouble seeing the slower hand. Notice how they're moving on a linear path relative to you and are very big? Just like the super sonic jet.

Having looked over that website the maths is sound. I've seen similar figures worked out else where using different methods including using angular speed.

Originally posted by jasofisc
no I believe it's you that are misrespresenting the evidence,

it has been proven on this forum that their last are light speed, one example was when piccolo destroyed the moon his beam got there and destroyed the planet at the same or close to the speed of light.

No time was ever given in the scan, furthermore, no ki blasts ever used in combat between DBZ characters have ever travelled at anywhere near that speed.

Normal humans can track them visually, that should tell you something.

you are just using week arguments to uphold your argument. you were lying when you said you said you were going to be fair about his.

You have yet to point out a flaw in my arguments. Stop whining.

about the human tracking the ki blast that only proves even more the control dbz have over their ki blast.

How does that even make sense?

Originally posted by jasofisc
only if there entire fight is invisible and that not even stilled superspeed people can't see it with out using some speshal technique

Except entire fights in DBZ are not invisible (except for extremely short fights).

Originally posted by jasofisc
those plains can do what ever they want an I will still see them if they are far enough away.

If they are large enough and travelling at a constant speed in a straight, predictable path. You seriously overestimate the visual acuity of the human eye and don't understand how easy it is to fool. Look up some websites on optical illusions that should demonstrate this.

goku was a good enough distance away where he wasn't so close to where he would be dazed or what ever happens when you don't notice something that is close by you moving. also he wasn't far enough away to where they would seem really small when watching them. you mention the human that passed a few feet in front of you thing. That's why i mentioned open proximity meaning they were not close enough to try something like that.

And your point is? He was moving in erratic patterns too fast for people's eyes to track. That's not anywhere near lightspeed. Do you have any idea how fast lightspeed is? At lightspeed he could have circled the eath over 7 times in under a second, yet all DBZ fights always start and end no more than 20 - 50 kilometers away from where they started.

research is not a fan made site, that crap unsupported fact garbage I also can make a site and make crap up too. your research is utter useless since it's not supported.

Supported? It's based on science and experimental data.

what you and the other guy have done for the past hundred pages is ignore the damanging facts of dbz then use straw man arguments to make people seem like they are saying what they are not also you use examples that i'm and others are not even talking about. like the human a few feet in front of me crap argument. I was talking about something that is reltily close to where you can see it travling at super sonic speeds not a person or human sized object blind sighting me.

You spoke of a jet plane passing right in front of you, I modified your analogy.

Oh, and Superman is a skilled fighter even without his powers. He was trained by Mongul's son and has 1000 years of fighting experience in Valhalla. Without his powers he was able to beat Batman and defeat a bunch of thugs with guns. The scans are in his respect thread (if imageshack didn't delete them too).

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
The argument with speed is fine Jasofisc. A normal person can move their arm so it's a blur. It's not closeness that does this. I just tested this out myself by looking in a mirror from 10 feat away.

If something vibrates at 1 HZ it will become a blur no matter how far away it is. It doesn't take much more speed than that before it becomes invisible.

I'll explain this your hand can become a blur. You can see stellar objects which are moving at vast speeds. Yet you have trouble seeing the slower hand. Notice how they're moving on a linear path relative to you and are very big? Just like the super sonic jet.

Having looked over that website the maths is sound. I've seen similar figures worked out else where using different methods including using angular speed.

so we are still talking about looking at people from a distance that are invisible to the onlooker. your hand becomes a blur because it's close to you. Ask some one else to do the same thing I bet their hand wont seem like a blur to you.

the may be sound however it's still not a criedible source.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
No time was ever given in the scan, furthermore, no ki blasts ever used in combat between DBZ characters have ever travelled at anywhere near that speed.

Normal humans can track them visually, that should tell you something.

You have yet to point out a flaw in my arguments. Stop whining.

How does that even make sense?

the flaw is that you don't relize the control the dbz characters have on their energy they can make them go fast or slow. also just because normal humans can see them doesn't make them vastly slower then light speed. People can see light. so the fact that normal humans can see them doesn't mean anything. and what is your proff that normal humans can track them anyways. Did someone say the blast is coming for them when if was shot in a differnt direction and came back around?