Originally posted by Endless Mike
If they are large enough and travelling at a constant speed in a straight, predictable path. You seriously overestimate the visual acuity of the human eye and don't understand how easy it is to fool. Look up some websites on optical illusions that should demonstrate this.And your point is? He was moving in erratic patterns too fast for people's eyes to track. That's not anywhere near lightspeed. Do you have any idea how fast lightspeed is? At lightspeed he could have circled the eath over 7 times in under a second, yet all DBZ fights always start and end no more than 20 - 50 kilometers away from where they started.
Supported? It's based on science and experimental data.
You spoke of a jet plane passing right in front of you, I modified your analogy.
the point is that something as large as a person that is far enough away is way way differnt then something close to you. if you don't understand this the I don't know how to explain it to you.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Oh, and Superman is a skilled fighter even without his powers. He was trained by Mongul's son and has 1000 years of fighting experience in Valhalla. Without his powers he was able to beat Batman and defeat a bunch of thugs with guns. The scans are in his respect thread (if imageshack didn't delete them too).
wait are you talking about the time that batman was kyptonited and he was fighting superman in the superman/batman non cannon seres. That is comical that superman without powers and weapons can take out a bunch of thugs with guns. it's as believeble as wolverine regenerated from a skeleton.
Originally posted by jasofisc
so we are still talking about looking at people from a distance that are invisible to the onlooker. your hand becomes a blur because it's close to you. Ask some one else to do the same thing I bet their hand wont seem like a blur to you.the may be sound however it's still not a criedible source.
Why? Because you don't like what it says?
The human eye registers input at about 50 frames per second, this is further lowered by concentration on other things, peripheral vision, blind spots, the brain itself not using all of the information the eye picks up, various colors blending into the background more than others and making things seem even more invisible....
Your argument holds no water whatsoever.
Originally posted by jasofisc
the flaw is that you don't relize the control the dbz characters have on their energy they can make them go fast or slow.
So every time someone sees one, even if it's used in combat when they would have no reason to "make it go slow", then it's automatically only 0.00001% of their full speed? Parsimony shows that to be bullshit.
also just because normal humans can see them doesn't make them vastly slower then light speed. People can see light.
They can't see objects moving at lightspeed, unless said objects very large/bright, or very far away. Light radiates in all directions. Please, learn something about basic science and stop making yourself look ignorant.
so the fact that normal humans can see them doesn't mean anything. and what is your proff that normal humans can track them anyways. Did someone say the blast is coming for them when if was shot in a differnt direction and came back around?
Read the manga where Roshi fought Goku in the tournament, where Roshi destroyed the moon (one of the blasts that you would claim was close to lightspeed), in a panel before it flew up into the air it was flying over the audience and everyone was looking at it and freaking out. That's just one example.
Originally posted by jasofisc
chech out the sayan saga when gokan could not see at all the fighters. that set a presdent that they are invisible for the entire fight to those looking on.
No, that was just for a short amount. They are only completely invisible to human eyes in short bursts lasting several seconds at most.
Originally posted by jasofisc
the point is that something as large as a person that is far enough away is way way differnt then something close to you. if you don't understand this the I don't know how to explain it to you.
Your scientific ignorance is really annoying.
The human eye and the parts of the human brain that process visual input are very complex, there are many factors that effect them.
Some of them are -
The size of the object
The brightness of the object
The predictability of the object's path (if your brain can easily predict its path, it is easier to see, as well as if it keeps changing speeds erratically as opposed to staying at a constant speed)
The color of the object and the color of its surroundings
What your brain is currently focusing on, how many other objects are moving around your peripheral vision, etc.
It has absolutely nothing to do with lightspeed, an object doesn't have to be anywhere near lightspeed to be faster than the human eye. In fact a human - size object only has to travel around 200 miles per hour to appear to be invisible to the human eye, under the correct conditions.
Originally posted by jasofisc
wait are you talking about the time that batman was kyptonited and he was fighting superman in the superman/batman non cannon seres.
That series is canon, no matter what Tricksterpriest says.
That is comical that superman without powers and weapons can take out a bunch of thugs with guns. it's as believeble as wolverine regenerated from a skeleton.
Yet he did, and it's canon, so deal with it.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
So every time someone sees one, even if it's used in combat when they would have no reason to "make it go slow", then it's automatically only 0.00001% of their full speed? Parsimony shows that to be bullshit.They can't see objects moving at lightspeed, unless said objects very large/bright, or very far away. Light radiates in all directions. Please, learn something about basic science and stop making yourself look ignorant.
Read the manga where Roshi fought Goku in the tournament, where Roshi destroyed the moon (one of the blasts that you would claim was close to lightspeed), in a panel before it flew up into the air it was flying over the audience and everyone was looking at it and freaking out. That's just one example.
very bright like a i don't know an energy beam
didn't say it was logical or scientific just calling it like I see it. so anyway you make your own argument break down and calling me ignoratnt when you are proving yourself wrong is small.
if the blast was going only a fraction of a light like you claim and it didn't speed up then it would have taken hours for it to reach the moon tying using logic it works wonders.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, that was just for a short amount. They are only completely invisible to human eyes in short bursts lasting several seconds at most.
I sorry that you either just don't like that part of don't know what i'm talking about but to gohan yamka and the saybmen where completely invisible for a duration of him untill gohan did what picclo said. do you know what part i'm talking about. Gohan wouldn't have been able to see them at all if he hadn't done what piccolo said.
Superman is faster, stronger and more durable, he wins by default. Supermans heat vision alone would kill Goku as he has been burned by lava. Al he has to do is freeze him then burn him or vice versa. Btw his heat vision is hotter than the sun and his freeze breathe is absolute zero, instant freeze. Superman has survived a solar system destroying blast and planet destroying yet no one in dbz ever survived a planet explosion with the exception of buu who regenerates. His strength feats are just so far over all the dbz cast heads its not funny, Superman is in a whole different league when it comes to speed and strength. I.T is the only thing that comes close to his speed and that does not equate to Goku's combat speed. Also a Superman fighting by vs forum rules would never get hit by Goku's slow ass energy beams.
Superman>> Goku.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Your scientific ignorance is really annoying.The human eye and the parts of the human brain that process visual input are very complex, there are many factors that effect them.
Some of them are -
The size of the object
The brightness of the object
The predictability of the object's path (if your brain can easily predict its path, it is easier to see, as well as if it keeps changing speeds erratically as opposed to staying at a constant speed)
The color of the object and the color of its surroundings
What your brain is currently focusing on, how many other objects are moving around your peripheral vision, etc.It has absolutely nothing to do with lightspeed, an object doesn't have to be anywhere near lightspeed to be faster than the human eye. In fact a human - size object only has to travel around 200 miles per hour to appear to be invisible to the human eye, under the correct conditions.
what you are talking about is what i'm talking about that in a condtion when you have a super power character (like gohan) who has enhanced or superhuman vision is looking at two people fighing and isn't seeing anything at all that does suggest going faster then light can keep up with, like when flash goes so fast everything is standing still and he looks like light or nothing at all. I understand what you are saying about the things that effect vision i'm saying they don't apply to a sayian who is looking at two other people from a distance and seeing nothing.
very bright like a i don't know an energy beamdidn't say it was logical or scientific just calling it like I see it. so anyway you make your own argument break down and calling me ignoratnt when you are proving yourself wrong is small.
if the blast was going only a fraction of a light like you claim and it didn't speed up then it would have taken hours for it to reach the moon tying using logic it works wonders.
It takes 1.2 seconds for light to reach the moon. It could be fired at a tenth the speed of light and only take 12 seconds to get there. Even if it it was travelling at 1/1000th the speed of light it wouldn't take hours.
also just because normal humans can see them doesn't make them vastly slower then light speed. People can see light.
You can't see light. Real life isn't star wars. You can only see light when it is bouncing off a surface. Surely you must of done the experiment in high school where chalk dust is put in the path of a laser to allow you to see it?
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
It takes 1.2 seconds for light to reach the moon. It could be fired at a tenth the speed of light and only take 12 seconds to get there. Even if it it was travelling at 1/1000th the speed of light it wouldn't take hours.You can't see light. Real life isn't star wars. You can only see light when it is bouncing off a surface. Surely you must of done the experiment in high school where chalk dust is put in the path of a laser to allow you to see it?
what you can totaly see the beam of light form a flash light
you you were right about not seeing light then you would prove my persous argument about then being invisble when gohan was looking on.
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
It takes 1.2 seconds for light to reach the moon. It could be fired at a tenth the speed of light and only take 12 seconds to get there. Even if it it was travelling at 1/1000th the speed of light it wouldn't take hours.You can't see light. Real life isn't star wars. You can only see light when it is bouncing off a surface. Surely you must of done the experiment in high school where chalk dust is put in the path of a laser to allow you to see it?
you make it sound like the energy beam was only going around 200 miles and hour (would take hours apon hours) because you little sight said 300 miles and hour is invisblity and obviously the energy beam is not going that fast.
Endless Mike said 200mph, btw.
Dude...the DBZ universe is so full of physical errors. I feel it is impossible to argue a case for the DBZ Universe because the physics are so stupid. You have done a better job than just about anybody I have seen jasofisc, but there is not way you can logically win this debate without having to look like an ass to make a point.
I think Endless Mike was right about small bursts at hyper speeds being accurate. I never thought of it that way. That just makes sense. Then again, the "special beam cannon" piccolo designed supposedly travels at the speed of light and you can actually see it traveling in mid-air at the cell games when Perfect Cell quadrupled himself and then fired 4 special beam cannons. This could prove your point a little better, jasofisc.
BTW, a galaxy destroying bomb could never exist...its explosion would be so great that it would create a tear in the fabric of the universe and then collapse in on itself...probably not before it had expanded a little bit creating small amounts of destruction... I do not currently know the exact instantaneous energy requirement necessary to create a large enough tear to cause it to collapse in on itself, but there is a threshold and it wouldn't take as much as you think. It happens to large super hot stars all the time. (and they cannot destroy all of their own planetary systems.)
If someone can prove to me other wise with quantum physics...then I will retract that statement and admit I am wrong...which I rarely do.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Endless Mike said 200mph, btw.Dude...the DBZ universe is so full of physical errors. I feel it is impossible to argue a case for the DBZ Universe because the physics are so stupid. You have done a better job than just about anybody I have seen jasofisc, but there is not way you can logically win this debate without having to look like an ass to make a point.
I think Endless Mike was right about small bursts at hyper speeds being accurate. I never thought of it that way. That just makes sense. Then again, the "special beam cannon" piccolo designed supposedly travels at the speed of light and you can actually see it traveling in mid-air at the cell games when Perfect Cell quadrupled himself and then fired 4 special beam cannons. This could prove your point a little better, jasofisc.
BTW, a galaxy destroying bomb could never exist...its explosion would be so great that it would create a tear in the fabric of the universe and then collapse in on itself...probably not before it had expanded a little bit creating small amounts of destruction... I do not currently know the exact instantaneous energy requirement necessary to create a large enough tear to cause it to collapse in on itself, but there is a threshold and it wouldn't take as much as you think. It happens to large super hot stars all the time. (and they cannot destroy all of their own planetary systems.)
If someone can prove to me other wise with quantum physics...then I will retract that statement and admit I am wrong...which I rarely do.
your right about the physics in dbz compaired to DC and yeah it is hard to debate something like this.