Superman can defeat EVERY DBGT character...............combined

Originally posted by jasofisc
very bright like a i don't know an energy beam

If the beam itself was discrete and moving at anywhere near lightspeed it would be invisible to human eyes.

didn't say it was logical or scientific just calling it like I see it. so anyway you make your own argument break down and calling me ignoratnt when you are proving yourself wrong is small.

You are ignorant. No matter how many times I try to explain this to you, you refuse to understand the simplest concepts.

if the blast was going only a fraction of a light like you claim and it didn't speed up then it would have taken hours for it to reach the moon tying using logic it works wonders.

Which is why one theory states that they move much faster out of the atmosphere than inside of it.

Originally posted by jasofisc
I sorry that you either just don't like that part of don't know what i'm talking about but to gohan yamka and the saybmen where completely invisible for a duration of him untill gohan did what picclo said. do you know what part i'm talking about. Gohan wouldn't have been able to see them at all if he hadn't done what piccolo said.

For short bursts lasting a few seconds, not for the whole fight. Obviously that makes them difficult to track without ki senses, but not completely invisible for the entire fight. Reread the manga.

Originally posted by jasofisc
what you are talking about is what i'm talking about that in a condtion when you have a super power character (like gohan) who has enhanced or superhuman vision

Yet unless you can quantify exactly how much superior his vision is to base human vision, that is meaningless.

is looking at two people fighing and isn't seeing anything at all that does suggest going faster then light can keep up with

No, no, and, no, for the last time, IT DOES NOT!

All it suggests is that they were moving too fast for his eyes and brain to properly track and process their visual input. How many times do I have to explain this?

like when flash goes so fast everything is standing still and he looks like light or nothing at all.

We know the Flash can move faster than light because -

It is stated
He has feats that show him moving a distance x in time y, when x/y = greater than lightspeed.

DBZ characters don't have that, so they're not lightspeed. Get over it.

I understand what you are saying about the things that effect vision i'm saying they don't apply to a sayian who is looking at two other people from a distance and seeing nothing.

And why not? Because you say so? You're just making things up now.

Originally posted by jasofisc
no it's because of the explanation piccolo gave

The explanation Picollo gave was that they were moving too fast for Gohan to track with his eyes, so he had to sense their ki. That has absolutely nothing to do with being anywhere near lightspeed.

Originally posted by jasofisc
what you can totaly see the beam of light form a flash light

What you can see from a flashlight is the light reflecting off of other surfaces. You can't see the beam as it moves and extends from the flashlight, and the individual photons as they move around.

Stop being obtuse.

you you were right about not seeing light then you would prove my persous argument about then being invisble when gohan was looking on.

Because they were moving too fast for his eyes to track and/or his brain to process the visual input. How many times do I have to explain this to you? 😠

Originally posted by jasofisc
you make it sound like the energy beam was only going around 200 miles and hour (would take hours apon hours) because you little sight said 300 miles and hour is invisblity and obviously the energy beam is not going that fast.

That refers to a human being, furthermore, the majority of ki blasts in DBZ do not move anywhere near as fast as the ones that reached the moon.

Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]Endless Mike said 200mph, btw.

Dude...the DBZ universe is so full of physical errors. I feel it is impossible to argue a case for the DBZ Universe because the physics are so stupid. You have done a better job than just about anybody I have seen jasofisc, but there is not way you can logically win this debate without having to look like an ass to make a point.

I think Endless Mike was right about small bursts at hyper speeds being accurate. I never thought of it that way. That just makes sense. Then again, the "special beam cannon" piccolo designed supposedly travels at the speed of light and you can actually see it traveling in mid-air at the cell games when Perfect Cell quadrupled himself and then fired 4 special beam cannons. This could prove your point a little better, jasofisc.

That was a dub error, never stated in the manga or the Japanese anime.

BTW, a galaxy destroying bomb could never exist...its explosion would be so great that it would create a tear in the fabric of the universe and then collapse in on itself...probably not before it had expanded a little bit creating small amounts of destruction... I do not currently know the exact instantaneous energy requirement necessary to create a large enough tear to cause it to collapse in on itself, but there is a threshold and it wouldn't take as much as you think. It happens to large super hot stars all the time. (and they cannot destroy all of their own planetary systems.)

Except we're talking about fiction where FTL technology is possible.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
That was a dub error, never stated in the manga or the Japanese anime.

Except we're talking about fiction where FTL technology is possible.

1. That sucks for the case for the DBZ fans.
2. You think I am smart because you take for granted that I know that you mean FTL stands for faster than light travel.cheers
Either that or you think I am a nerd.nerd GNOES!!!

[QUOTE=9069281]Originally posted by Endless Mike
If the beam itself was discrete and moving at anywhere near lightspeed it would be invisible to human eyes.

You are ignorant. No matter how many times I try to explain this to you, you refuse to understand the simplest concepts.

Which is why one theory states that they move much faster out of the atmosphere than inside of it. [/QUOTE

see their again you said it yourself "if the beam itself was discrete and moving at anywhere near lightspeed it would be invisible to human eyes" so which is it is anywhere near light speed invisible or is just going kinda fast is.

I understand perfectly what your saying but you don't recognize anything that i'm saying. I was talking about something differnt then what you are talking about. still you are not addressing the gohan not being able to see anything at all when yamka was fighting the sabeman. but keep calling me ignorant it only makes you look even more like an @$$.

it's very possible that they do move faster in outerspace it's as possible that they can control the speed of their blast as well so they don't hurt bystanders. also it's possible that it's a combination of the two. either way piccolo's moon destroying beam took barly any time at all to reach the moon. On and one other theory (which I buy into) is that our perspective is in bullet time (the bullet time increases with every saga) and when something like an energy blast goes out side of the battle it goes into normal time. All of these are as likely as the others.

Originally posted by dadudemon
1. That sucks for the case for the DBZ fans.
2. You think I am smart because you take for granted that I know that you mean FTL stands for faster than light travel.cheers
Either that or you think I am a nerd.nerd GNOES!!!

I like that bullet time theory. There were a few times in the anime and quite a few in the movies where it slows down and looks like its in bullet time

Originally posted by Endless Mike
For short bursts lasting a few seconds, not for the whole fight. Obviously that makes them difficult to track without ki senses, but not completely invisible for the entire fight. Reread the manga.

do you know what part i'm talking about it was early in the sayan saga yamka was fighting a sabaman and gohan could not see anything at all. I know what your talking about and I agree but it's not what i'm talking about.

Gohan was only a kid at that time why would his eyesight be much better than a humans if any?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yet unless you can quantify exactly how much superior his vision is to base human vision, that is meaningless.

No, no, and, no, for the last time, IT DOES NOT!

All it suggests is that they were moving too fast for his eyes and brain to properly track and process their visual input. How many times do I have to explain this?

We know the Flash can move faster than light because -

It is stated
He has feats that show him moving a distance x in time y, when x/y = greater than lightspeed.

DBZ characters don't have that, so they're not lightspeed. Get over it.

And why not? Because you say so? You're just making things up now.

so because they don't have any concreat way of measuring the speed means that they are not lightspeed and you can asses what that speed is even though their is not a concreat way of measureing it.

i'm just going by what piccolo said about why gohan could not see them. to me it's the same thing as when flash goes so fast that every one is not moving. even in dc if the character is not fast aproching light speed they are a blur. in the New world order story line flash was apporching light speed when he hit the white martian speedster and flash said that the other guy would only see flash as light, and that's to another speedster going invisible is quite the speed feat.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The explanation Picollo gave was that they were moving too fast for Gohan to track with his eyes, so he had to sense their ki. That has absolutely nothing to do with being anywhere near lightspeed.

I believe he said see not track with his eyes. I don't have the animi so what ever

Originally posted by Endless Mike
What you can see from a flashlight is the light reflecting off of other surfaces. You can't see the beam as it moves and extends from the flashlight, and the individual photons as they move around.

Stop being obtuse.

Because they were moving too fast for his eyes to track and/or his brain to process the visual input. How many times do I have to explain this to you? 😠

one more time because it's bull when something is not up close. that's where your argument breaks down it's harder to track movement and matter when it's up close but when you are looking at it from a distance it's easyer.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
That refers to a human being, furthermore, the majority of ki blasts in DBZ do not move anywhere near as fast as the ones that reached the moon.

that may be true but you were using that one to show that ki blast are no where near light speed. if you are right about how fast it was going and how eye track movement and that applying to dbz then it would have taken sometime to reach the moon.

Originally posted by Magee
Gohan was only a kid at that time why would his eyesight be much better than a humans if any?

I don't have any I was just assuming because he has superpower and high fighting ability that, eyesight would be a factor but no concreat proff

this is what i'm talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXAijFdP3Fw&mode=related&search=

from this I considered it to mean that they were going faster then can be seen at all like when flash goes so fast that people don't even see a blur. or when clark on smallvile goes so fast and does a bunch of stuff then gets back into his orginal position and no one is the wiser. now from this part in the animi I figured they were going lightspeed or close if i'm not right fine but address this and not the hyper speed burst that tell us nothing of their speed.

if endless mike and the other fellow are looking from a goku covers this much distance in this amount of time speed thing then I don't have it.

Saiyans are supposed to have much better eye sight. Note Vegeta's comment about goku moving when being attacked by Butta and Jheese. (Or however the hell you spell it.) He referred to his saiyan eyes being able to see what was going on in then "it" zoomed in at Goku's feet and we could see imprints in the ground from when he was moving. That is some wicked fast moving.

I looked for it on you tube and I could not find a clip that has the dialogue.