Superman can defeat EVERY DBGT character...............combined

Originally posted by jinzin
you are of course aware that Frieza at 1% of his power deflected a blast that decimated a planet thrown at him by Vegeta.. one that didn't take time to power up?

No see here's the thing, everytime I've used a weak superman feat it's been to prove a point... NOT TO DESCREDIT SUPERMAN.. but that point must be flying over your heads.. all I'm doing is trying to demonstrate that low end feats for the sake of story telling don't depower a character... Superman can go lightspeed in flight.. and yet how many times has he struggled to get somewhere to save someone on time? They're plot holes and they don't necessarily reflect the premise of the character's capabilities.

And yes Freiza at 100% was in form 4 and bulked up.. when he started that fight he was 100% weaker and 4 trasnformations from getting there. When he destroyed vegeta he did it with a blast that took 6 seconds to make and he didn't have to power up to do it....

again... picollo blew up the moon at less than 1,000 if frieza's at a level of 500,000 it's simple to follow from there. 😬

But hey what do I know? apparently PL's are "worthless" 🙄

that's the REAL descrediting of characters' abilities here.

He didn't even have a power level in SSJ3. The last power level ever stated officially was Trunks having a PL of 5 when he was suppressing his power (right before he killed Frieza).

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Wrong. Vegeta fired a blast at him, Frieza kicked it away. It was never stated or shown anywhere how powerful said blast was.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
He's flown across the world in less than a second to save someone and been back before people have even noticed he's left. This is a normal thing to him. The only time he "struggles to get somewhere to save someone in time" is when it's a really powerful/deadly threat or when it's interplanetary distance or above, or when he's depowered, or when he's afraid of harming people by flying too fast in the atmosphere.... etc.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Wrong. It was never shown how Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta, it was only stated. The anime and movies that showed it were fillers.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Except for the fact that power levels are meaningless....

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Not to mention that it would take almost 2000 times as much energy to destroy the earth as it would take to destroy the moon anyway, 500 times wouldn't cut it.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Which they are, and they will continue to be, unless you demonstrated a clear and precise mathematical relationship between power level and destructive capacity proven with the laws of physics and mathematics using evidence from the canon manga.

I don't have to use the manga as again this thread uses GT as it's basis.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes, judging characters by what they actually have accomplished, instead of what you think a bunch of meaningless numbers means they might be able to accomplish, is "discrediting their abilities". 😆

IN SPITE OF ALL HIS OTHER SHOWINGS.

It's not a genuine argument..

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes, "reacting to Picollo", that's a huge feat, when he walks right up and announces his intentions before attacking. 🙄

Originally posted by Endless Mike
That's the same logic you're using.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Sorry, I meant his reaction speed outclasses his travel speed.

again. flash gets hit by boomerangs.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Power levels =/= feats. Get it through your head.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The actual performance of DBZ characters does not put them anywhere near what you and your power level wanking suggests.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You have no point, other than being a wanker.

Originally posted by Magee
Im not sure if you mean when freiza blow up planet vegeta. Im pretty sure that was just filler for the anime as I don't recall that being in the manga so non canon. What you fail to understand is that powerlevels are meaningless. All they were used for was to show who was stronger than who and where discarded with after the freiza saga. It was never even sugested that powerlevels represent how much ki energy one can put out rather it was just Akiras way of showing who could beat who. However using your logic I can see why dbz fanboys think Goku can blow up the universe, he should very well be able to do that in ssj3 if we go by power levesl no?

Exactly... in movie 8 Brolly blew up an entire galaxy without much strain.. it only stands to reason that characters who bested him in power and combat would be able to reproduce the same feat.

Originally posted by jinzin
what are you blind or stupid? the blast is SHOWN blowing up a planet... 😐

No it's not.

The only planets ever destroyed in the canon manga are:

1. Planet Vegeta by Frieza (off - panel)
2. Planet Namek by Frieza
3. King Kai's planet by Cell self - destructing
4. "Several hundred planets" by Kid Buu (off - panel)
5. Planet Earth by Kid Buu

And that's it.

wrong. read dd wars.

Scan?

Actually you're wrong.. it's shown and stated multiple times in the series and in the bardock movie.. the anime and movies being fillers means absolutely nothing here since the thread INVOLVED GT... gt takes both the anime and the movies into account as having happened. you can't have it both ways.

Actually GT contradicts the manga and the anime so much that the only way to resolve it is to make it its own separate canon, which makes the GT characters even weaker than the Saiyan saga characters going by feats, which is why I pretty much ignore GT.

Bardock movie and the anime fillers are non - canon. I only use the manga, which is the only part written by Toriyama himself and directly stated to be canon.

They're not meaningless.. they're the basis of all the fights throughout the series. You only want them to be meaningless because if they aren't then supes might not win here.

No, they are meaningless, because they demonstrate no logical correlation whatsoever.

How many joules of energy are in one power level point?

How come Roshi could destroy the moon at power level 139 yet a normal human had a power level of 5, which would be more than all of the world's combined nuclear arsenals if you interpolate them as you want to?

How come the feats of DBZ characters simply don't match up to what your extrapolations predict them to be?

piccolo did it without power up.. 😬 and no you're just assuming... especially considering the fact that vegeta blew up a planet no sweat before going to earth.

Which was filler, again.

Stop using fillers, it's obtuse. Do you want me to bring up Goku and Picollo not being able to lift a bus with ki blasts, or Goku getting hurt by having a rock tossed on his head, or getting hurt when firewood fell on his head, or any of the other stupid fillers that depower him?

I don't have to use the manga as again this thread uses GT as it's basis.

If you use GT then we practically have to throw out DB and DBZ and start all over since GT completely contradicts them.... and then we have SSJ4 Goku not being able to lift a building, and a bunch of other stupid crap.

no judging them on plot induced stupidy is... supes failed to KO batman
he failed to avoid batman's assault mid speed blitz
batman's KOed him
Batman's outfought him... therefore he can't beat a normal person...

IN SPITE OF ALL HIS OTHER SHOWINGS.

It's not a genuine argument..

That's because he's the Goddamn Batman.

Originally posted by jinzin
If someone who can attack faster than light says he's gonna punch you in the face, being able to react to it is impressive regardless.

No one in DBZ can react anywhere near lightspeed. Furthermore Babidi didn't block the punch, he set up a shield. If someone with super speed said he was going to punch me and I set up a shield before he did, that doesn't give me super speed.

No it's not, I just questioned your assumption to discredit what HAS happened when both were speculative cases..

When you're completely misinterpreting things and making things up.

Reacting to an attack = flying fast? Lie.

Setting up a shield = blocking a punch? Lie.

Picollo being lightspeed? Lie.

This is true, but his fighting speed is still something that you wouldn't be able to watch on T.V.

You'd be able to see him, just not his movements and attacks/parries.

again. flash gets hit by boomerangs.

Trick boomerangs armed with high - tech devices specifically equipped to counter his powers used in traps set up beforehand by a person with intricate knowledge of him and his weaknesses and mind.

Stop oversimplifying things.

Power levels are <feats.. since higher power level means that every feat performed by a lower level before it is up for grabs.

Which is completely stupid logic.

Hal said that Superman was stronger than everyone else on the JLA, so according to you, I can claim all of the JLA's feats for him now. 😱

This means that he goes intangible (MM), summons the Godwave (WW), recreates the entire GLC (GL), steals speed from the entire planet (Flash), and then kicks the crap out of the entire DB+DBZ+DBGT+DBZ movies verses combined in half a second.

purely based on you picking and choosing plot holes as you see fit.. Diana cut supes throat with a projectile that was going NOWHERE NEAR lightspeed.. I suppose he doesn't have great reaction times.. :

Of course, I mean it's not like she's a super speedster herself, or anything....

nice, when you can't figure out what that point is you degrade yourself to pathetic insults. well you've certainly shown your quality..

The insults are because I can't get the point through your thick head.

DBZ characters have not actually accomplished anything that would put them anywhere near Superman's level. Your entire argument is that based on a few stupid numbers that are not even internally consistent, they should be able to, but all of their powerups and fights still don't show this. Yet you claim for some reason that the entirety of the manga post - Frieza saga is PIS and DBZ characters are really way more powerful than they have ever shown to be, with no evidence other than your interpretation of a bunch of flimsy numbers that don't even make sense in the first place!

I've seen fanboys before, but you truly are pitiful.

Originally posted by jinzin
Yes, powerlevels are discarded after the frieza saga, but that's not because power levels are meaningless.. it's because the scouters used to detect them are since they could be faked out.. Power levels are no different than the marvel strength class system they set a bar or a standard. they have value.

Marvel strength classes at least give some kind of general guideline, although they mean nothing once you get to 100. They can be applied to other universes as well.

Power levels don't measure anything really, other than which DBZ character can beat up which other DBZ character.

Exactly... in movie 8 Brolly blew up an entire galaxy without much strain.. it only stands to reason that characters who bested him in power and combat would be able to reproduce the same feat.

Except he's not even canon, not to the manga, the anime, or GT. And he never demonstrated anywhere near that kind of power ever again. And he was killed by being shot into the sun.

aaaannnnd all you're continuing to do is ignore what you don't like and make up things about DBZ/GT that are only as true as your own bias perspective and speculations.... Like I said before you're entirely less than civil and completely and utterly unreasonable... I'll continue to discussed this matter with magee since he's still within the realm of reason.. but you poor boy are lost without a ticket to board a train of thought as long as it's not a one way trip to "superman wins"... so I'm done with you.

Originally posted by jinzin
aaaannnnd all you're continuing to do is ignore what you don't like and make up things about DBZ/GT that are only as true as your own bias perspective and speculations.... Like I said before you're entirely less than civil and completely and utterly unreasonable... I'll continue to discussed this matter with magee since he's still within the realm of reason.. but you poor boy are lost without a ticket to board a train of thought as long as it's not a one way trip to "superman wins"... so I'm done with you.

Hmm, after looking through this post, I see no actual arguments or even any attempts to refute any of my points, so I can clearly say:

Concession Accepted

Originally posted by jinzin
depends.. getting a lot of different energy from a lot of different sources is nice... but spending some time to gather up energy from a few sources more powerful (VASTLY at that) than the majority? see that's where a grey line's kinda drawn.

Time is something you rarely get in battle though..and while having 1 great source of energy is great, powering up through multiple power sources (most just as fundamental to the universe)instantly would be much better.

After all..think about it. Ki blasts vs any type of energy blast you can think of. Microwave, Gamma, Infra red, Electricity, Solar, Geothermal..etc...in unlimited supplies all around you. It's just up to how much you can tap.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Hmm, after looking through this post, I see no actual arguments or even any attempts to refute any of my points, so I can clearly say:

Concession Accepted

The only thing I can concede to is that you're too far fanboyed out to listen or adhere to reason. 😬

I can give you a thousand different arguments but if you ignore them, attack strawmans, and make your own conclussions about the series regardless if they're based on facts or your own speculation then there's no real way to debate with you. 😐

I'd have better luck with a wall.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Time is something you rarely get in battle though..and while having 1 great source of energy is great, powering up through multiple power sources (most just as fundamental to the universe)instantly would be much better.

I agree to the first part but to the second: only if the energy you aquire is sufficent.... if it's not then it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
After all..think about it. Ki blasts vs any type of energy blast you can think of. Microwave, Gamma, Infra red, Electricity, Solar, Geothermal..etc...in unlimited supplies all around you. It's just up to how much you can tap.

And I would venture to say that Ki energy is quite different from run of the mill energy blasts... but that's more based off of my own personal experiences with it.

Originally posted by jinzin
The only thing I can concede to is that you're too far fanboyed out to listen or adhere to reason. 😬

I can give you a thousand different arguments but if you ignore them, attack strawmans, and make your own conclussions about the series regardless if they're based on facts or your own speculation then there's no real way to debate with you. 😐

I'd have better luck with a wall.

That's funny, because I was the one actually using reason and logic, and canon events from the manga, while you were the one invoking filler episodes, non - canon movies, attempting to extrapolate from power levels when it has been clearly demonstrated multiple times that they were not logically consistent....

Originally posted by jinzin
I agree to the first part but to the second: only if the energy you aquire is sufficent.... if it's not then it doesn't matter.

1 or 2 sources vs millions of just as viable sources.

Originally posted by jinzin
Unlimited? did it state that?

And I would venture to say that Ki energy is quite different from run of the mill energy blasts... but that's more based off of my own personal experiences with it.

Once you get to high levels... I doubt it makes much of a difference which one cooks you. I was the one that stated unlimited...because the EM spectrum and tons of other energies are all around us in unlimited supply.

Also note that he regarded the sun as insignificant compared to his power sources. And the sun is a very powerful source.

Originally posted by jinzin
Yes, powerlevels are discarded after the frieza saga, but that's not because power levels are meaningless.. it's because the scouters used to detect them are since they could be faked out.. Power levels are no different than the marvel strength class system they set a bar or a standard. they have value.

Exactly... in movie 8 Brolly blew up an entire galaxy without much strain.. it only stands to reason that characters who bested him in power and combat would be able to reproduce the same feat.

The thing about Brolly is, if we ignore the fact movies are not canon is... The only time he was bested in power and in fact combat was the second movie he appeared in which took Gohan, Goten and Goku to defeat him with there kamehamehas and even then their blasts didn't destroy him it was the sun that killed him.

Originally posted by Magee
Powerlevels are just numbers with nothing representing them other than 1000 is a higher number than 500 so A>B. The Marvel strength class rating is completely different as it gives a set amount of weight a person can lift and its fair to assume they can't lift much more than whats stated, ignoring class 100. So some one who can lift say 20 tons it would be fair to assume they could lift cars, buses, trucks the lsit goes on. However with powerlevels we have nothing to compare them to other than previous powerlevels of characters and what they achieved and as we both know the inconsistencies of the show really don't help to make a clear decision based on powerlevels. This is why its not so much a strength rating and more of letting the audience know A is stronger than B, it gives no indication as to how much stronger A is to B other than a numerical figure which means nothing.

The thing about Brolly is, if we ignore the fact movies are not canon is... The only time he was bested in power and in fact combat was the second movie he appeared in which took Gohan, Goten and Goku to defeat him with there kamehamehas and even then their blasts didn't destroy him it was the sun that killed him.

I agree the inconsistncy make it next to impossible for to really juge their power and how powerfull their hits are (their lifting strength has nothing to do with it)

Originally posted by jinzin

True. but that doesn't mean that the blast wasn't powerful enough to smoke the planet, it's just that the power used was concentrated energy...

Again, freiza smoked a planet using .01% of his power... 😐

It's just a stupid plot hole.. that simple.

Still doesn't change the fact that Piccolo gets his ass kicked by anyone who's the main villain at that time. Regardless of who or why it always happens..

And I doubt that little blast had enough power to blow the planet up, the only time we saw Cooler try and blow the planet up the energy ball was the size of a small island..

Wow ummmmm....Supes is not taking on every DB character. Matter of fact he's not even beating Goku.