Originally posted by Soljer
You can't assume every move they make is visible except for the ones that are specifically labelled otherwise. Especially when Kullilin and Goku were capable of moving at 'invisi'speed when they were, what, twelve or so?
Yeah, for one second. The rest of the fight was visible. You can't assume that just because they can move that fast for short periods, they are moving that fast for the entire fight, especially when there are so many instances that contradict this.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yeah, for one second. The rest of the fight was visible. You can't assume that just because they can move that fast for short periods, they are moving that fast for the entire fight, especially when there are so many instances that contradict this.
There are like three instances where someone's visible. And it's, so far, ALWAYS been after they stopped the more intense 'close quarters combat' and went for Ki blasts or hammer blow/finisher type moves. 😬.
Originally posted by Soljer
There are like three instances where someone's visible. And it's, so far, ALWAYS been after they stopped the more intense 'close quarters combat' and went for Ki blasts or hammer blow/finisher type moves. 😬.
No, during most fights, there are a few instances when people comment that they've disappeared, or become invisible. The rest is either devoid of comment, or filled with comments by the spectators regarding the fight.
If you want to claim that the entire fights are invisible based on the fact that they can move invisibly for short bursts at a time, you have to prove it.
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3180/humanspercievexc2.jpg
^This scan might be from early in the manga, but keep in mind that both Goku and Tien were both stronger at this point than Krillin and Roshi were when they fought, and that's example lots of people like to cite.
Originally posted by Soljer
There are like three instances where someone's visible. And it's, so far, ALWAYS been after they stopped the more intense 'close quarters combat' and went for Ki blasts or hammer blow/finisher type moves. 😬.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
No, during most fights, there are a few instances when people comment that they've disappeared, or become invisible. The rest is either devoid of comment, or filled with comments by the spectators regarding the fight.If you want to claim that the entire fights are invisible based on the fact that they can move invisibly for short bursts at a time, you have to prove it.
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3180/humanspercievexc2.jpg
^This scan might be from early in the manga, but keep in mind that both Goku and Tien were both stronger at this point than Krillin and Roshi were when they fought, and that's example lots of people like to cite.
And Goku was going nowhere near all out. 😬. And, let's not forget the dozens of times the commentator mis-commentated. Saying things about a single punch when really dozens were thrown. Or even small pushes to push someone out of the ring...
Originally posted by Soljer
And Goku was going nowhere near all out. 😬. And, let's not forget the dozens of times the commentator mis-commentated. Saying things about a single punch when really dozens were thrown. Or even small pushes to push someone out of the ring...
Goku was fighting seriously against Tien, Master Roshi warned him about him. They could have fought faster, but only for brief periods at a time, that's the whole point of what I've been saying.
One time Goku knocked someone three times with his elbow and the announcer said it looked like one. That's the only instance similar to the first thing you said that ever happened AFAIK, and it falls under the "short burst" category. And the small pushes to push someone out of the ring did not surprise people because of their speed, they surprised people because of their strength. They thought the people had just tripped because such a small push shouldn't have been strong enough to knock them out.
Normal humans can percieve DBZ fights all the way to the end of the manga, they can move faster than people can see for short bursts lasting several seconds, but not for the whole fight.
Besides, you said that the only instances when they are visible are when they are firing ki blasts or doing finishing moves, I just proved you wrong.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Goku was fighting seriously against Tien, Master Roshi warned him about him. They could have fought faster, but only for brief periods at a time, that's the whole point of what I've been saying.One time Goku knocked someone three times with his elbow and the announcer said it looked like one. That's the only instance similar to the first thing you said that ever happened AFAIK, and it falls under the "short burst" category. And the small pushes to push someone out of the ring did not surprise people because of their speed, they surprised people because of their strength. They thought the people had just tripped because such a small push shouldn't have been strong enough to knock them out.
Normal humans can percieve DBZ fights all the way to the end of the manga, they can move faster than people can see for short bursts lasting several seconds, but not for the whole fight.
Besides, you said that the only instances when they are visible are when they are firing ki blasts or doing finishing moves, I just proved you wrong.
No, because I'm talking about the end of DBZ, not Tien and Goku fighting twenty years ago. 😬.
And the status quo, in terms of humans being able to observe them, hasn't changed.
I already posted this one:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8564/humanspercieve20yo7.gif
This was right after Goku and Cell started fighting a bit, they were just punching and kicking, flying too. Mr. Satan and the reporter are commenting on how they were fighting great, indicating they could percieve them.
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1556/humanspercieve37lz8.gif
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2268/humanspercieve38jw6.gif
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8739/humanspercieve39in2.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/583/humanspercieve40tb0.jpg
Here are humans in the audience percieving Goten and Trunks fight, and commenting on how the fight is "great" and "incredible". They wouldn't say that if they couldn't see anything. In fact the cameraman was confident that he could have gotten it on film if Picollo hadn't destroyed the cameras.
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7416/humanspercieve63zd3.gif
Here's another scan of Mr. Satan reacting to the Fat Buu/Kid Buu fight (right after Kid Buu had been throwing Fat Buu around at high speeds).
I've got tons of scans like this. This kind of stuff is common. Just because they can disappear for short periods during a fight doesn't mean they can fight the whole time at those speeds.
Originally posted by PhenomenolYou really just like to say stuff to try and get people to fight with you don't you?
Superman can't punch hard nor does Superman lift alot!!!
Originally posted by Mirai GohanI know but that would probably mean he can lift more than I at first assumed. Because if he couldn't do 10 tons at base then easily did 40 tons at ssj that means he'd get a bigger strength increase than I thought. I thought he was doing 10 tons already then went to 40 not that he was doing less than 10 tons and went straight to 40. So he'd be probably low class 100 still at ssj3 but stronger than I first thought.
Yeah, but that's still not even close to the type of strength Superman possesses. And as much as Superman can lift, imagine how hard he can punch....
He couldn't even lift 10 tons at base form so he is weaker than 10 tons at base so his base is weaker than I thought. It wouldn't make a difference how fast Gokou was if he's only a low 100 tons. No punch would hurt Superman at all but I wish they'd give us a bit more reference to his speed. The only two things I can think of is Gotenks going around the Earth a few times in nearly 30 minutes, and Teen Trunks thinking his car is way to slow so he flies. Well Snake Way also but I forget how long that was.
ok mike. obviously sometimes humans can see the fights, did you eveer think the show and manga slow them down so the viwer/reader can see them. regardless of what people in the show say they are moving to fast to be seen by the normal human eye. many times in the frieza saga piccolo and krillin and gohan allstate that they can barely follow the fight. now at the end of the show they are much faster and stronger.
oh and by the way the thing with the weights is rediculas. in the frieza saga he lifts a mountain in normal form, that example is void.
