strength is not the determining factor here coz goku has been beating the living daylights out of people stronger than he is ever since he was a kid! his raw power and speed is too much for superman alone..goku has been hit with planet shattering force numerous times but still gets up and wipe the floor with his enemy..
tenshin han vs superman..now thats a fight...
There is nothing to show Goku being on Superman's level physically or in speed. Durability, they are far under as well.
DBZ characters can't even survive the heat of the sun.
Superman has taken hellfire, disintegration beams, black holes, space/time fabric rips, the sun, etc.
Superman's weaknesses are kryptonite, and magic to a certain extent. Goku has neither.
goku will freakin blow up the sun then, no problem.. 😮💨
goku has taken more pain and can take more pain than supes..
goku's agility>>>>superman's
goku's durability>>>>superman's
goku's strength<<superman's (i admit)
goku's energy proj>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>superman's
goku's speed>>>>>>>>superman's
goku's fighting ability>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>supes
goku is ttooooooo much for supes..he doesnt fight at ssj4 ssj5 right off bat, with every punch, he learns his opponents skills and quickly adapts..he is both adept at using his strength, or speed, or energy, or just plain freakin punches to defeat his enemy..he may at times be shown as a blundering fool but when he fights it shows his smarts..just because superman is stronger doesnt mean he is much more durable..goku has taken punches far stronger than what superman can dish out, not once in a single fight but numerous times in succession and still get up..kryptonite and magic may be superman's weakness but pffft, goku can vaporize superman's arse on an atomic level..and superman is not faster than goku..instant transmission is not teleportation..when you teleport, you are taken to another dimension then to the place of your choice just like nightcrawler..instant transmission however, you are simply there..and goku can fight with his i.t. goku is an opponent wherein superman is simply outclassed in many levels..whereas superman can rely on his superstrength or speed is just lacking..goku will just laugh his face off ..just because superman has survived black holes or hurricane katrina does not connotate that he can defeat goku..now if its ssj2 ssj3 ssj4 or ssj5 goku, is another matter entirely..
really, superman is beatable, i like superman, he's right up there with santa clause for me..but not to be biased, he is beatable, especially goku, simply overkill..
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
goku will freakin blow up the sun then, no problem.. 😮💨goku has taken more pain and can take more pain than supes..
goku's agility>>>>superman's
goku's durability>>>>superman's
goku's strength<<superman's (i admit)
goku's energy proj>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>superman's
goku's speed>>>>>>>>superman's
goku's fighting ability>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>supesgoku is ttooooooo much for supes..he doesnt fight at ssj4 ssj5 right off bat, with every punch, he learns his opponents skills and quickly adapts..he is both adept at using his strength, or speed, or energy, or just plain freakin punches to defeat his enemy..he may at times be shown as a blundering fool but when he fights it shows his smarts..just because superman is stronger doesnt mean he is much more durable..goku has taken punches far stronger than what superman can dish out, not once in a single fight but numerous times in succession and still get up..kryptonite and magic may be superman's weakness but pffft, goku can vaporize superman's arse on an atomic level..and superman is not faster than goku..instant transmission is not teleportation..when you teleport, you are taken to another dimension then to the place of your choice just like nightcrawler..instant transmission however, you are simply there..and goku can fight with his i.t. goku is an opponent wherein superman is simply outclassed in many levels..whereas superman can rely on his superstrength or speed is just lacking..goku will just laugh his face off ..just because superman has survived black holes or hurricane katrina does not connotate that he can defeat goku..now if its ssj2 ssj3 ssj4 or ssj5 goku, is another matter entirely..
really, superman is beatable, i like superman, he's right up there with santa clause for me..but not to be biased, he is beatable, especially goku, simply overkill..
Goku blowing up the sun 😆
Supes has taken more pain and can take more pain than Goku..
Superman's agility>>>>Goku
Superman's durability>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Goku
Superman's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Goku (I know)
goku's energy proj/Supes projection - Depends/different purposes
Supermans speed>>>>>>>>Goku
Goku's fighting ability>Supes
Superman learns his opponents and adapts as well...hell, most comics and cartoon characters do that...It's not a dbz thing...
Goku isn't vaporizing anything.... Kryptonite or Magic, remember? Ki isn't in the included list...and even without that... DISINTEGRATION beams. They don't even tickle Supes.
On the other hand, Heat vision hotter than a sun would kill Goku....ask his buddy Broly. Things like Lava, acid, and strength far below Supes level affect DBZ characters.
And yes, your opinion is VERY biased.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Goku blowing up the sun 😆Supes has taken more pain and can take more pain than Goku..
Superman's agility>>>>Goku
Superman's durability>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Goku
Superman's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Goku (I know)
goku's energy proj/Supes projection - Depends/different purposes
Supermans speed>>>>>>>>Goku
Goku's fighting ability>SupesSuperman learns his opponents and adapts as well...hell, most comics and cartoon characters do that...It's not a dbz thing...
Goku isn't vaporizing anything.... Kryptonite or Magic, remember? Ki isn't in the included list...and even without that... DISINTEGRATION beams. They don't even tickle Supes.
On the other hand, Heat vision hotter than a sun would kill Goku....ask his buddy Broly. Things like Lava, acid, and strength far below Supes level affect DBZ characters.
And yes, your opinion is VERY biased.
heat vision..thats a big IF, if he lands his heat vision in the first place
oh, and wasnt superman ko'ed by a gas station explosion? my oh my..
isnt batman a better hand to hand fighter than supes? did he not admit this? bats can also take supes punches, i dont care if supes was holding back but bats has taken supes punches..
now that tickles....
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
omg..i forgot that goku and others train in a gravity chamber.. 😱there goes supermans strength advantage 😂
goku blow up the sun..hell yeah!
if supes can throw planets, goku can destroy galaxies..
do the math..fanboy!
AH! Insults already show your fanboism.
We disagree so you decide to toss insults? Not cool....
Gravity chamber...so what? Show me any of them moving planets or splitting them physically. Briefly holding the weight of ETERNITY or turning endless wheels the size of a solar system and then we'll talk.
Goku destroys galaxies... 😆 Maybe a planet at a time...nothing that a TON of other characters couldn't do... is that supposed to be impressive?
Goku has nothing in his arsenal to hurt Superman... even his most powerful attack, GD, would be useless.
Meanwhile, Acid and heat hurt these guys. tsk tsk. They did near the sun but are supposed to destroy galaxies. Hyperbole.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
AH! Insults already show your fanboism.We disagree so you decide to toss insults? Not cool....
Gravity chamber...so what? Show me any of them moving planets or splitting them physically. Briefly holding the weight of ETERNITY or turning endless wheels the size of a solar system and then we'll talk.
Goku destroys galaxies... 😆 Maybe a planet at a time...nothing that a TON of other characters couldn't do... is that supposed to be impressive?
Goku has nothing in his arsenal to hurt Superman... even his most powerful attack, GD, would be useless.
Meanwhile, Acid and heat hurt these guys. tsk tsk. They did near the sun but are supposed to destroy galaxies. Hyperbole.
im sorry for the insults...
but..
superman was ko'ed by a gas station explosion was he not? ironic..
its a simple question, really..
if yes, then using this as a gauge, he is not touching goku..
and yes superman has crazy feats but hes still not touching goku..why? because this is a fight, just because supes can throw planets doesnt mean goku cant dodge them..fine, supes is superfast also, but goku can fight better from far away, or if he wants to fight close range, he can as well..and no, dont tell me that supes is a better fighter coz he plainly is not..what does supes do when he realizes hes no match in fighting technique? use his superstrength? wont work..use his superspeed? denied again..fly him to the sun? he can try though..use heatvision? no way is he touching him..
oooh superman can survive blackholes therefore he wins..superman can juggle planets so goku loses..like a kid really...
i dont like dbz, i only tolerate it coz my bro likes it..i like superman better, but deep down, as a superman fan, i know that he cant take on goku..
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
im sorry for the insults...but..
superman was ko'ed by a gas station explosion was he not? ironic..
its a simple question, really..
if yes, then using this as a gauge, he is not touching goku..
and yes superman has crazy feats but hes still not touching goku..why? because this is a fight, just because supes can throw planets doesnt mean goku cant dodge them..fine, supes is superfast also, but goku can fight better from far away, or if he wants to fight close range, he can as well..and no, dont tell me that supes is a better fighter coz he plainly is not..what does supes do when he realizes hes no match in fighting technique? use his superstrength? wont work..use his superspeed? denied again..fly him to the sun? he can try though..use heatvision? no way is he touching him..
oooh superman can survive blackholes therefore he wins..superman can juggle planets so goku loses..like a kid really...
i dont like dbz, i only tolerate it coz my bro likes it..i like superman better, but deep down, as a superman fan, i know that he cant take on goku..
You are talking about Byrne Supes... Supes before he died. Yep, he was a lot weaker and he was damn tired from fighting Doomsday. That Supes no longer exists and I wouldn't use him anymore than you would use Goku as a kid.
Goku won't be dodging HV and if he does...not for long. Superman has FAR better senses and speed. It's natural to his powerset and to his race.
Throwing planets and blowing up galaxies is hyperbole for both characters. You really don't want to go there when it comes to precrisis Supes. He was borderline off the hooks ridiculous.
Goku's fighting technique is not all that great...Buu was not much of a fighter and he was whoopin that behind. Powerful attacks take ages to build up and their durability is on the lower end of the power scales.
When things like acid, lava, needles, rocks and the sun can kill them and punches from far less or fast guys hurt them... Supes will murder them.
Goku cannot take a punch from Superman, the strength class is wayyyyyyyyyyyy different. Like an elephant vs a dog. Unfortunately, this elephant has Super speed and can burn you with a look.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindi really don't get your denial on their powers...
AH! Insults already show your fanboism.We disagree so you decide to toss insults? Not cool....
Gravity chamber...so what? Show me any of them moving planets or splitting them physically. Briefly holding the weight of ETERNITY or turning endless wheels the size of a solar system and then we'll talk.
Goku destroys galaxies... 😆 Maybe a planet at a time...nothing that a TON of other characters couldn't do... is that supposed to be impressive?
Goku has nothing in his arsenal to hurt Superman... even his most powerful attack, GD, would be useless.
Meanwhile, Acid and heat hurt these guys. tsk tsk. They did near the sun but are supposed to destroy galaxies. Hyperbole.
goku could take out a planet when he was literally 150 thousand times weaker than he ended up being in the cell saga. in the japanese edit, king cold even states that he has the power to wipe out a solar system...
if he meant planet he would have said planet.. but planets are trifles.. what with frieza able to destroy one, while only using .25% of his 100% power.
and the sun is a terrible example.. you never see a healthy DBZ character take off into the sun, when brolly did it he got his chest blown to shit with ki blasts, when cooler did it well the same thing really... again DBZ characters need ki in order to produce offense AS WELL AS defense.
Originally posted by jinzin
i really don't get your denial on their powers...goku could take out a planet when he was literally 150 thousand times weaker than he ended up being in the cell saga. in the japanese edit, king cold even states that he has the power to wipe out a solar system...
if he meant planet he would have said planet.. but planets are trifles.. what with frieza able to destroy one, while only using .25% of his 100% power.and the sun is a terrible example.. you never see a healthy DBZ character take off into the sun, when brolly did it he got his chest blown to shit with ki blasts, when cooler did it well the same thing really... again DBZ characters need ki in order to produce offense AS WELL AS defense.
The same way I don't get your tendency to use Byrne Supes examples.
I know how DBZ powers work, which is another reason why they would have a hard time against someone of Supermans calibre. Particulary since Superman has NO KNOWN weaknesses to KI based attacks, and they aren't physically strong enough to hurt him.
To me a good fight is SS1/SS2 goku vs Byrne Supes. Removing low feats for both characters, they should have a good battle.
They can't survive the sun, what is wrong with that? The sun IS a powerful force of nature. DBZ guys have good offense, but in the cosmic scheme of things, they are on the low end of durability and strength.
Those PL numbers are equally worthless with the amount of inconsistency in the series PLUS we don't know what they would translate to in other universes. Battle feats are fine.
using buu as an example that goku's fighting skill aint all that? pffft.. buu absorbed the god of god's he had infinate knowledge that the god possessed... and both goku and vegeta caught onto the fact that buu is no where near as dumb as he lets on...
funny though.. i seem to recall superman getting beat in h2h by a mindless doomsday... lol.
Originally posted by AvalonofthewindPL numbers are worthless? they tell you how strong a character is, they're not worthless... unless you're talking about the problems that scouters have with people who are trained enough to hide them from the scouters I'm not sure you mean by inconsistencies.. 😕
The same way I don't get your tendency to use Byrne Supes examples.I know how DBZ powers work, which is another reason why they would have a hard time against someone of Supermans calibre. Particulary since Superman has NO KNOWN weaknesses to KI based attacks, and they aren't physically strong enough to hurt him.
To me a good fight is SS1/SS2 goku vs Byrne Supes. Removing low feats for both characters, they should have a good battle.
They can't survive the sun, what is wrong with that? The sun IS a powerful force of nature. DBZ guys have good offense, but in the cosmic scheme of things, they are on the low end of durability and strength.
Those PL numbers are equally worthless with the amount of inconsistency in the series PLUS we don't know what they would translate to in other universes. Battle feats are fine.
Originally posted by jinzin
using buu as an example that goku's fighting skill aint all that? pffft.. buu absorbed the god of god's he had infinate knowledge that the god possessed... and both goku and vegeta caught onto the fact that buu is no where near as dumb as he lets on...
funny though.. i seem to recall superman getting beat in h2h by a mindless doomsday... lol.
Big difference... Buu was at the end of the canon series. Goku took ages to charge a fireball while begging for ki. Vegeta distracted Buu and he needed a wish from the dragon to finish Buu. Plot device o rama.
Mindless DD was Byrne Supes who himself was a brawler and not the intelligent fighter he is today. Supes slugged him out one on one and they took each other out. A clash of titans. If you know DD, you also know he is a damn good fighter, instinctively knowing your weaknesses and adapting to your strengths.
It seems you are interested in a "low end showing" fest instead of battle feats.
Acid and water. Nuff said...low end durability.
In a normal battle, these guys are fighting on earth...nobody is blowing up any planets.
Originally posted by jinzin
PL numbers are worthless? they tell you how strong a character is, they're not worthless... unless you're talking about the problems that scouters have with people who are trained enough to hide them from the scouters I'm not sure you mean by inconsistencies.. 😕
On paper, they sound wonderful. Watching the series or reading that manga, they do the same things over and over again.
It's like computers in some ways...do you really believe a 1ghz pc is twice as fast as a 500mhz one in real world performance? Compare a G4 to a P3? It's apples and oranges.
Worthless in debate and in showings. On top of that, words like UNLIMITED get tossed in comics like 2 dollar hoes. If I went by that hyperbole alone, NO DBZ characters would win against said "unlimited" characters...something that's been said about Supes more than once.
Even I won't go for that.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindit's not a big difference.. you brought up one seemingly mindless creature to display why goku isn't that great a fighter.. given the creature's abilities and history it's a terrible example...
Big difference... Buu was at the end of the canon series. Goku took ages to charge a fireball while begging for ki. Vegeta distracted Buu and he needed a wish from the dragon to finish Buu. Plot device o rama.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindthis kept up all the way through doomsday wars.. where byrnes was nowhere in sight.
Mindless DD was Byrne Supes who himself was a brawler
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindso it's a bad example... like oh i dunno.. a creature who has attained the powers and knowledge of a god of gods in the DBZ verse?
and not the intelligent fighter he is today. Supes slugged him out one on one and they took each other out. A clash of titans. If you know DD, you also know he is a damn good fighter, instinctively knowing your weaknesses and adapting to your strengths.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindno I'm fighting fire with fire here.. you keep insinutating that dbz ain't all that, but your reasoning is very skewed.. i'd love to get in a feat for feat fest but a lot of the material I'm using to support goku comes from the anime, i don't have the time to download every damned episode of DBZ there is and peice together the points from various episodes that i'm to make...
It seems you are interested in a "low end showing" fest instead of battle feats.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindacid and water?
Acid and water. Nuff said...low end durability.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewindnever said they were...
In a normal battle, these guys are fighting on earth...nobody is blowing up any planets.