Dooku's Skill

Started by DE Luke28 pages
DE Luke Senior Member

You can throw insults at me till' the cows come home,LUCAS IS THE OFFICIAL SOURCE FOR CANON!He is the one who wrote the movie,HIS word is the one that means something,not the movie,not the novel,nothing can overrite his word because,NEWS FLASH:HE IS THE GUY WHO WROTE THE MOVIE!And yes,Lucas' word DOES mean something,he is the one who wrote the movie,is he not?You are the most ignorant being I have ever seen,Vious,you claim the the guy who made the movie's word doesn't mean anything,but the movie HE MADE does?That doesn't make any sense!And this topic is about Dooku,not about Leia and Luke,why are you changing the f*cking subject?!Oh,probably because you know that Lucas' words are more canon than the movie.You aren't worth my time,you throw insults at me when I provide you proof that trumps your 'proof',and you think that the movie is more canon than the words from the mouth of the guy who made it,that is bullshit,Vious,and you seem to be full of it.

"Not worth my time..."-Mace Windu,ROTS VG

Darth Vious Restricted

In the words of Deacon Frost, you just don't f*cking get it do you.
The reason I brought up Luke and Leia is because they are an example of the final movie over-riding Lucas' intentions.
Just incase you missed it the first time, here it is again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDymXAKFJ8s&search=leia%20kissing%20luke
Lucas intended for Luke to be attracted to Leia (see how he is trying to kiss her?) In the final edit of the movie, the scene was removed. When Leia kissed Luke she was doing so to irritate Han (but Luke still liked it) not because she was attracted to Luke. Does that make any sense? Do you understand what I am trying to illustrate? I'm not trying to change the subject, I'm just using a different piece of evidence to support my point (which would then be applied to Dooku's skills)
My point is that that Lucas' intentions or comments can be overridden by the movie.

DE Luke Senior Member

Again,this topic is about Dooku,you want to make a Luke and Leia topic,go to the SW OT Forum.And nevertheless,he made the movies,his allowed to make his calls as to what happened when.And no,Lucas' words can't,he made the movie he's allowed to make whatever he wants canon and he says Anakin>Dooku.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
Again,this topic is about Dooku,you want to make a Luke and Leia topic,go to the SW OT Forum.And nevertheless,he made the movies,his allowed to make his calls as to what happened when.And no,Lucas' words can't,he made the movie he's allowed to make whatever he wants canon and he says Anakin>Dooku.

Yes, this topic is about Dooku, I'm not denying that. What I am sayying, is that comments Lucas made about the duel can be overridden by the movie itself (as that is the finished product) You said that Lucas' word could not be overridden (in any way) and I proved to you that it can be. If it could be overridden in ESB, then it can also be overridden in RotS.
[Edit for SPAG]

DE Luke Senior Member

Did the movies make Lucas?No.Did you make the movies?No.Did Lucas make the movies?Yes.Can his word not be canon?No.He made the movies,the movies can't overrite his word,he made them using his own words,therefore HE is the Official Source of Canon.He made Luke and Leia brother and sister,if he didn't ,then He wouldve made it different.The movie can't make itself,it needs a guy to make it,and to make it he has to set the record straight about everything that goes on in the movie,which is exactly what he did by saying Anakin>Dooku.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
Did the movies make Lucas?No.Did you make the movies?No.Did Lucas make the movies?Yes.Can his word not be canon?No.He made the movies,the movies can't overrite his word,he made them using his own words,therefore HE is the Official Source of Canon.[B]He made Luke and Leia brother and sister,if he didn't ,then it wouldve been different. [/B]

Excuse me? I think you'll find that Irving Kirshner directed ESB. Lucas did not make the movie. His intentions were only there as a writer and producer, and, they were overrulled by the final movie. You cannot deny that as they are facts, and if his opinion can be overrulled once by a movie, then it can be overrulled by another movie.
[Edit to add]
As I said before, I'm not denying that Anakin beat Dooku. What I am saying (and have film stills to prove) is that Anakin did not beat Dooku while they were fighting blade to blade. Regardless of Lucas' intentions for the scene, the stills I have posted are taken from the film he made. If he had really wanted it to be different, then he would have made it different.

DE Luke Senior Member

Yeah, Kirshner DIRECTED the actors,he didn't write ESB,he only told them what to do because he was following what Lucas wrote.Kirshener didn't write the script or anything,he mearly DIRECTED the actors on what to do.

Edit: Again,Lucas word overrites the movie,he can say what he want's to about it because he intended to make it that way,he says Anakin beat Dooku fair,Screenplay says it,Novel says it.Thats 3 canon sources,Anakin saw an advantage to disable his opponent and took it.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
Yeah, Kirshner DIRECTED the actors,he didn't write ESB,he only told them what to do because he was following what Lucas wrote.Kirshener didn't write the script or anything,he mearly DIRECTED the actors on what to do.

Precicely! He directed them!
Who get's the credit for Blade? Stephen Norrington or David Goyer?
Who get's the credit for Trainspotting Danny Boyle or Irving Welsh
Who get's the credit for BladeRunner? Ridley Scott or Philip K. Dick?
The writer's input to a movie is negligeable compared to that of the director. Who do the actors take direction from? It is most certainly not the writer!
The final product (in any artistic endeavor) is all that matters.
I could say that I intended to paint a photo-realistic scene from Mustafar and mount lightsabers on it.

But the end result, was not photo-realistic

so my intention to make it thus is irrelevent. Do you not understand that? An artist's intentions mean nothing compared to the actual finished product.

DE Luke Senior Member

And where does the Director get his script from from?How is he supposed to direct if he doesn't know what to direct for?Lucas wrote and directed ROTS,did he not?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
And where does the Director get his script from from?How is he supposed to direct if he doesn't know what to direct for?Lucas worte and directed ROTS,did he not?

A script is nothing but a guideline. Look at the examples I gave of artwork. I would not draw a pencil outline on the canvas and mount two pieces of metal pipe and say it was a photo-realistic landscape with lightsabers on it.
A director is more important than a movie than the writer, as they are the person who takes the words and uses them to guide the actors. The final movie is the result of the actors and director's decisions, not the writers. The final product always outweighs the creator's intentions, because that is all people can see.

DE Luke Senior Member

The final product always outweighs the creator's intentions.
True,but again,how would the Director direct someone if he didn't know what to direct for?A Director is useless without a Script because he wouldn't know what to direct for.

And,again,Lucas wrote and directed ROTS,did he not?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
The final product always outweighs the creator's intentions.
True,but again,how would the Director direct someone if he didn't know what to direct for?

Sorry, but that is not the point. The script is just a tool that the director uses. A saw is just a tool that the set builder uses, but does the tool-maker who made the saw get credited as having relevence?

Originally posted by DE Luke
And,again,Lucas wrote and directed ROTS,did he not?
He did, but, you have agreed that the final product outweighs the creator's intentions, so the debate is concluded.

DE Luke Senior Member

No,it isn't.Lucas gave his opinion on the final film,not his intention,nor anywhere in the commentary did he state the word 'intention'.He said Anakin>Dooku,the movie shows Dooku getting beat,the Screenplay says to Dooku lost to Anakin,the Novel does aswell.Again,Lucas is always right,he never said 'my intention' in any of that Commentary.

And how would the Builder saw anything if he didn't have the saw?And last time I checked,all saws have the name and copyright of the people who manufactured them printed right on the handle or the blade of it.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
No,it isn't.Lucas gave his opinion on the final film,not his intention,nor anywhere in the commentary did he state the word 'intention'.He said Anakin>Dooku,the movie shows Dooku getting beat,the Screenplay says to Dooku lost to Anakin,the Novel does aswell.Again,Lucas is always right,he never said 'my intention' in any of that Commentary.

You just agreed that the final product is more important than the intentions of it's creator. You agreed that yourself, to say otherwise now, is simply back-peddling and contradicting yourself.
My opinion of my painting was that I intended it to be photorealistic, but that still does not change the fact that it is not photorealistic.
Yes, Lucas said Anakin beat Dooku. I have not been denying that! I am just saying (and have proven) that Anakin did not beat Dooku while they were fighting blade to blade (so Anakin is not as good a swordsman as Dooku.

If you want to keep on insisting that Lucas' intentions or opinions count more than the finished movie, then break out the banjos, because here is your prize: A redneck wannabe Jedi who fancies his sister.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDymXAKFJ8s&search=leia%20kissing%20luke

[Edit to add]

Originally posted by DE Luke
And how would the Builder saw anything if he didn't have the saw?And last time I checked,all saws have the name and copyright of the people who manufactured them printed right on the handle or the blade of it.

I never said that tools were not needed by artisans, but, they are not more important than the people who use them.

DE Luke Senior Member

Read my post,Lucas didn't say he 'intended' anything in that interview,do you have a problem reading?I agreed with you about the final product outweighting the person who made it's INTENTIONS,what I DIDN'T agree wit hyou about was it overriting the guy who made it that say the final product and gave you what he thought about it THAT is what Lucas said(And what matters),he did NOT say "I 'intended' Anakin to beat Dooku.".Which is exactly what YOU think he said,which he did not.And why are you insulting me?It's not my fault that you won't read my posts CLEARLY.Again,to get it through your thick skull:LUCAS NEVER SAID THE WORD 'INTENDED' IN THE ENTIRE COMMENTARY!

Edit:Then that makes them just a man,they can't carve anything all by themselves because they NEED A TOOL TO HELP THEM.And who's going to make that tool if the builder can't?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
Read my post,Lucas didn't say he 'intended' anything in that interview,do you have a problem reading?I agreed with you about the final product outweighting the person who made it's INTENTIONS,what I DIDN'T agree wit hyou about was it overriting the guy who made it that say the final product and gave you what he thought about it THAT is what Lucas said(And what matters),he did NOT say "I 'intended' Anakin to beat Dooku.".Which is exactly what YOU think he said,which he did not.And why are you insulting me?It's not my fault that you won't read my posts CLEARLY.Again,to get it through your thick skull:LUCAS NEVER SAID THE WORD 'INTENDED' IN THE ENTIRE COMMENTARY!

Edit:Then that makes them just a man,they can't carve anything all by themselves because they NEED A TOOL TO HELP THEM.


Jesus, you really are getting desperate now you have to try splitting hairs. Regardless of Lucas saying it was his intention (or whatever he said) the movie will always overrule his opinion. I've already proven that a movie can overrule Lucas' opinion. it's about time you provided some proof. What proof do you have that Lucas' opinion/intentions/whatever overrule the final movie?

DE Luke Senior Member

Not desperate,just annoyed,and I'm not splitting hairs,I'm giving you logic that you clearly haven't provided because I have told you THREE times that Lucas never mentioned the words 'intended' ANYWHERE in that Commentary.And did the movie make itself?No,Did Lucas make the movie?Yes.Does the Movie,the Novel and Screenplay and Lucas all state that Dooku lost?Yes,Is Lucas not the person who made the movie?Yes,Did he see the final film and give his opinion on it?Yes,Does his opinion matter?Yes,he is the one who created the movie,he saw how events played out and gave his word for every single one,which is the word of the man who made it and saw the final version of it.Is his opinion the only one that matters?Yes,he made it,saw the final version,without him it would not have even been made,Does anyone else opinion matter?No,Does the movie matter over the word of the man who made it?No,he saw the final version,gave HIS opinion on all the events,that is his job.

If Dooku was holding back,then he shouldve unleashed all of his it when Skywalker overwelmed him,but he either didn't or already did,Lucas stating he was,that IS his job to state what happened,not yours,not mine,not the movie,the movie is like a tool aswell to tell what happened when,and for OFFICIAL Sources to decipher it all and give their take on what REALLY happened,which is exactly what Lucas did.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
Not desperate,just annoyed,and I'm not splitting hairs,I'm giving you logic that you clearly haven't provided because I have told you THREE times that Lucas never mentioned the words 'intended' ANYWHERE in that Commentary.And did the movie make itself?NoDid Lucas make the movie?Yes.Does the Movie,the Novel and Screenplay and Lucas all state that Dooku lost?Yes,Is Lucas not the person who made the movie?Yes,Did he see the final film and give his opinion on it?Yes,Does his opinion matter?Yes,he is the one who created the movie,he saw how events played out and gave his word for every single one,which is the word of the man who made it and saw the final version of it.Is his opinion the only one that matters?Yes,he made it,saw the final version,without him it would not have even been made,Does anyone else opinion matter?No,Does the movie matter over the word of the man who made it?No,he saw the final version,gave HIS opinion on all the events,that is his job.

I have provided you with logic! I posted the clip of Luke and Leia THREE TIMES as proof that Lucas intentions and opinions can be overridden by the movie. I do not care what Lucas said about RotS. For all I care, he could use the negatives to wipe his ass (which would be interesting with a digital camera) The fact remains that Anakin did not beat Dooku by duelling him. The fact also remains that Lucas' opinion can (and has) been overridden by a movie.
So you can either accept this, or keep deluding yourself.

DE Luke Senior Member

Did Lucas ever state his intention for that scene?No.therefore we don't know his REAL intention, because he never states it, does he?Therefore what your making is an unsupported assumption that is based on nothing but a deleted scene with no commentary provided on what was going to happen.Purely speculation.

And IF Dooku was holding back,then he shouldve unleashed all of his power when Skywalker overwelmed him,but he either didn't or already did,Lucas stating he already did,that IS his job to state what happened,not yours,not mine,not the movie.The movie is like a tool aswell, to tell what happened when,and for OFFICIAL Sources to decipher it all and give their take on what REALLY happened to provide what IS canon and what is NOT,which is exactly what Lucas did.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
Did Lucas ever state his intention for that scene?No.therefore we don't know his REAL intention, because he never states it, does he?Therefore what your making is an unsupported assumption that is based on nothing but a deleted scene with no commentary provided on what was going to happen.Purely speculation.

But Lucas wrote it!!! That must mean it's more important than anything else!!!!111 Lucas wanted Luke to want to kiss Leia!!!111111

Originally posted by DE Luke

And IF Dooku was holding back,then he shouldve unleashed all of his power when Skywalker overwelmed him,but he either didn't or already did,Lucas stating he already did,that IS his job to state what happened,not yours,not mine,not the movie.The movie is like a tool aswell, to tell what happened when,and for OFFICIAL Sources to decipher it all and give their take on what REALLY happened to provide what IS canon and what is NOT,which is exactly what Lucas did.

How can you unleash your power when someone has hold of your arms?