Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Umm...Luke kicked Vader off that platform in ESB and down the stairs in ROTJ.Luke delivered a kick that mad Vader fall over the span of two movies?
Were you born stupid or is it just a gift?
In Empire Strikes Back Luke kicked Vader off that platform
Now in Return of the Jedi where Luke and Vader were fighting Luke kicked him down the stairs.
So the next time you have a thought...let it go.
Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Were you born stupid or is it just a gift?In Empire Strikes Back Luke kicked Vader off that platform
Now in Return of the Jedi where Luke and Vader were fighting Luke kicked him down the stairs.So the next time you have a thought...let it go.
Calm down dude! F*ck. You bitchy like this 24-7? It was a joke! If you couldn't tell go stop breathing. Do it...
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Please, where are these guidelines?
Nope, sorry...uncontrolled duels have NOTHING but an unwritten, unspoken agreement that's tenuous at best
Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Umm...Maul smacked Qui-Gon's head to get a clear target.
Umm...Grievous and Obi-Wan went without lightsabers and even fist to fist.
Umm...Anakin grabbed Obi-Wan by his throat and was chocking him.
Umm...Mace kicked Palpatine knocking his lightsaber away.
Umm...Luke kicked Vader off that platform in ESB and down the stairs in ROTJ.Fact of the matter is these are uncontrolled battles meaning NO RULES.
Originally posted by overlord
It seems as though this whole thread is highjacked by Vious. I hope he stands neutral in this though!
I have seen all the commentary stuff posted on here and i fail to see where it says Dooku was fighting his hardest. I have not seen where it says Dooku was trying to kill Anakin. All i see is stuff saying he was supposed to fight Anakin. From what I have seen in the movies it seems obvious that Dooku was told not to kill him. His only reasons for not using force powers against Anakin would be either he was told not to kill him, he felt it was dishonorable to use it against Anakin against a lightsaber duel or that he was two worn out from force pushing Obi-Wan to use any more force power attacks. Either way with it starting out two on one he was already at a disadvantage. It was not a fair fight to start with. At his age it would be easy for him to get worn out in a two on one fight. Even when he was worn out he matched everyone of Anakin's blows. The moment Anakin grabbed hold of his arms it turned from a lightsaber duel into a wrestling match. It does not prove Anakin is a better lightsaber duelest then Dooku. As for Palpatine's words about Anakin. How many times has Palpatine lied before? Don't you think that he wanted the Sepertest leaders to feel safe. The comments made my Lucas can be considered cannon. Yet none of his comments even say Dooku was fighting his hardest. You seem to be thinking that just fanboys argue for Dooku. When this whole thread started i did not care for Dooku so much. But I understood his skill. However as this thread continued I have grown to like Dooku more. No one here is argueing the fact that Anakin won. We are just pointing out that how he was won does not prove he is better. While the Dooku fans are finding new evidence to show you. You fail to show any information that disproves what they say.
I have seen all the commentary stuff posted on here and i fail to see where it says Dooku was fighting his hardest.
The commentary and script (both canon) as well as the novelization (also canon) state that Dooku got tired and was simply outmaneuvered. Canon > Anyone else's opinion.
That there concludes the argument. Dooku lost, fair and square, because Anakin was better.
I have not seen where it says Dooku was trying to kill Anakin.
Erm . . . it was a test for Sidious to gauge which one of the two was more powerful. Whoever won would become his apprentice. Sidious, aka, Mister "I Want More Power", wouldn't want the weaker candidate for his apprentice.
All i see is stuff saying he was supposed to fight Anakin.
And he did. And he lost.
From what I have seen in the movies it seems obvious that Dooku was told not to kill him.
That right?
His only reasons for not using force powers against Anakin would be either he was told not to kill him, he felt it was dishonorable to use it against Anakin against a lightsaber duel or that he was two worn out from force pushing Obi-Wan to use any more force power attacks.
Or, it could be, that Dooku had to isolate Anakin from Obi-Wan, and then attempted to overpower Anakin through sheer lightsaber skills. By the way, neither Anakin nor Obi-Wan used the Force against Dooku - though they tried with one another.
Why is that?
Either way with it starting out two on one he was already at a disadvantage.
Lol, really? Aren't you the one arguing he's more powerful?
It was not a fair fight to start with.
Fair? You're going to take the loser's route and argue "that fight wasn't fair!!!1!!1"? If Dooku was superior to Obi-Wan and Anakin, then he wasn't at a disadvantage. At least not one that he couldn't overcome.
At his age it would be easy for him to get worn out in a two on one fight.
Makashi practitioners rarely get tired out. It's efficient and operates on minimal energy. Especially when Dooku wasn't actively using the Force. In fact, the script says that both Obi-Wan and Dooku got tired out - and Anakin got stronger.
Even when he was worn out he matched everyone of Anakin's blows.
No one here denies Dooku's skill with a lightsaber. He was losing his energy as Anakin gained it.
The moment Anakin grabbed hold of his arms it turned from a lightsaber duel into a wrestling match.
Anakin had an advantage. He took it. Hell, Dooku kicked Anakin in the face when he disabled Obi-Wan. I suppose that is cheating as well.
It does not prove Anakin is a better lightsaber duelest then Dooku.
He is. The script and commentary - as well as Palpatine - both say it.
As for Palpatine's words about Anakin. How many times has Palpatine lied before?
Why the hell would he lie to Grievous about that? He had no reason to. He simply spoke the truth. He had a new apprentice and this one was more powerful than the last one (Dooku).
Don't you think that he wanted the Sepertest leaders to feel safe.
Obviously. But that comment to Grievous has nothing to do with it.
The comments made my Lucas can be considered cannon.
"Can be considered"? Uh, no. They are canon.
Yet none of his comments even say Dooku was fighting his hardest.
Lucas said Anakin proved his strength by killing Dooku. Case closed.
You seem to be thinking that just fanboys argue for Dooku.
They're not arguing. Hell, Vious tried to deny that what I posted came from the commentary, and then he said that Lucas's words meant nothing to him.
Why? Because Vious has no support.
When this whole thread started i did not care for Dooku so much. But I understood his skill.
I never said he's weak or that he lacked skill. He possesses both strength and skill. But Anakin possesses more.
However as this thread continued I have grown to like Dooku more. No one here is argueing the fact that Anakin won. We are just pointing out that how he was won does not prove he is better. While the Dooku fans are finding new evidence to show you.
Evidence in the form of opinions and denials?
You fail to show any information that disproves what they say.
Wrong. I show Lucas's commentary, the official screenplay, and the novelization. All three are canon sources. They have assumptions and opinions.
Mine trumps theirs.
Originally posted by Darth ViousI'm sorry but you may not post anymore in this thread. You've hit the posting limit.
Hijacked?
This is a thread to discuss Dooku's skill, is it not? That's what I've been doing. Just because I stand up for the points I make, that hardly means I've taken over the thread. Nothing's stopping you from posting either. If you have a contribution, make it. If not, f*ck off and stop doing the exact thing you accused me of.
Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
I have seen all the commentary stuff posted on here and i fail to see where it says Dooku was fighting his hardest. I have not seen where it says Dooku was trying to kill Anakin. All i see is stuff saying he was supposed to fight Anakin. From what I have seen in the movies it seems obvious that Dooku was told not to kill him. His only reasons for not using force powers against Anakin would be either he was told not to kill him, he felt it was dishonorable to use it against Anakin against a lightsaber duel or that he was two worn out from force pushing Obi-Wan to use any more force power attacks. Either way with it starting out two on one he was already at a disadvantage. It was not a fair fight to start with. At his age it would be easy for him to get worn out in a two on one fight. Even when he was worn out he matched everyone of Anakin's blows. The moment Anakin grabbed hold of his arms it turned from a lightsaber duel into a wrestling match. It does not prove Anakin is a better lightsaber duelest then Dooku. As for Palpatine's words about Anakin. How many times has Palpatine lied before? Don't you think that he wanted the Sepertest leaders to feel safe. The comments made my Lucas can be considered cannon. Yet none of his comments even say Dooku was fighting his hardest. You seem to be thinking that just fanboys argue for Dooku. When this whole thread started i did not care for Dooku so much. But I understood his skill. However as this thread continued I have grown to like Dooku more. No one here is argueing the fact that Anakin won. We are just pointing out that how he was won does not prove he is better. While the Dooku fans are finding new evidence to show you. You fail to show any information that disproves what they say.
Excatly. 🙂
I'm sorry but you may not post anymore in this thread. You've hit the posting limit.
Everyone has the right to post overlord. Darth Vious is discussing the topic at hand - which is more than I can say for you. Ive only seen you go around trolling and bashing. So if you have nothing constructive to say then piss off.
Originally posted by Escape81
A lot of stuff
First off, I do not need support from anyone to validate what I am saying, as my opinion is coming from watching the movie and listening to the commentary (Which as pointed out, said nothing about Dooku fighting to his fullest.) and no one is posting any evidence that suggests that Anakin is a better swordsman than Dooku. No one is denying that Anakin won. No one is denying that Anakin beat Dooku. What others and myself are pointing out, is that Anakin did not beat Dooku while they were duelling, so he is an inferior swordsman to Dooku. Look!
Anakin prepares to grab Dooku's Arms:
Anakin Grabs Dooku's arms immobilizing his lightsaber:
Anakin begins to move his lightsaber in to sever Dooku's hands.
Is that clear enough? Is that good enough evidence? It's from the f*cking movie, so you can't get any better evidence for what Anakin is doing!
As for my comments about Lucas' word, I stand by them. He can say whatever he likes in commentary about what he'd wanted to do with a scene, but ultimately, that means f*ck all compared to the actual finished film: If he hadreally intended for a certain thing to happen or be said in a movie, then he would have included it. When contradicting the movie, all Lucas is doing, is providing an opinion. As I just said. If he really intended for a scene to play out a certain way, then he would have f*cking filmed it that way and edited it that way. A point I raised before shows just 'how canon' Lucas' opinions are:
In ANH, Luke was attracted to Leia, and clearly didn't like the idea of Han pursuing her. In ESB, when she kissed him (admitedly, it was to piss off Han), Luke was totally smug. If anything Lucas says or does is canon (including the movies) then that can only mean that Lucas intended for Luke to be attracted to Leia, something we in the Real World, like to call incest.
Originally posted by Sin Harvest
What does that have to do with anything? Luke didn't know Leia was his sister
No, but Lucas did, yet he intentionally wrote scenes that had Luke attracted to Leia. The point I'm illustrating is that Lucas' intentions and opinions can still be overruled by the actual content of the movies, rather than what he had intended to do.
Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
I have seen all the commentary stuff posted on here and i fail to see where it says Dooku was fighting his hardest. I have not seen where it says Dooku was trying to kill Anakin. All i see is stuff saying he was supposed to fight Anakin. From what I have seen in the movies it seems obvious that Dooku was told not to kill him. His only reasons for not using force powers against Anakin would be either he was told not to kill him, he felt it was dishonorable to use it against Anakin against a lightsaber duel or that he was two worn out from force pushing Obi-Wan to use any more force power attacks. Either way with it starting out two on one he was already at a disadvantage. It was not a fair fight to start with. At his age it would be easy for him to get worn out in a two on one fight. Even when he was worn out he matched everyone of Anakin's blows. The moment Anakin grabbed hold of his arms it turned from a lightsaber duel into a wrestling match. It does not prove Anakin is a better lightsaber duelest then Dooku. As for Palpatine's words about Anakin. How many times has Palpatine lied before? Don't you think that he wanted the Sepertest leaders to feel safe. The comments made my Lucas can be considered cannon. Yet none of his comments even say Dooku was fighting his hardest. You seem to be thinking that just fanboys argue for Dooku. When this whole thread started i did not care for Dooku so much. But I understood his skill. However as this thread continued I have grown to like Dooku more. No one here is argueing the fact that Anakin won. We are just pointing out that how he was won does not prove he is better. While the Dooku fans are finding new evidence to show you. You fail to show any information that disproves what they say.
Originally posted by Darth ViousWoah, you make even more sense than me! Go back under your bridge, I'll remember that.
I don't see a moderator tag under your name, so get back under your bridge.
And Jam-Jul_Lison, you may fail to see if Dooku was trying his hardest but doesn't mean crap. And remember that Anakin also didn't meant to kill him, he just defeated him in the first place. Of course Dooku can't just defeat Anakin because of his insta-kill force powers but I think you people don't know what you're talking about anyway.
Dooku fans don't find any evidence of bullshit and you should leave some spaces between your sentences. It's one big horrible text of the same irrelevant stuff.
Whatever happened to defeating an opponent or just plain disarming them? If Dooku was supposed to hold back or something he shouldn't have let himself get overcome, he just would've be less offensive, not also less defensive.
If Dooku already could find a moment to use a force power on Anakin while in a fast fight, then Dooku could've just disarmed him. Those force powers don't immediately murder Anakin.
Just what are you fanboys trying to say? You guys make no sense, until you come up with better stuff, I'll just stick by what I've seen from the movies.
@Vious:First,Jam's post is not proof,it's his opinion,which opinon=crap,in a debate.Second,why don't YOU go under a bridge,fanboy,considering you don't listen to Lucas' ,the Screenplay and the Novel's word for it and just insert your own opinion.
@Escape:Forget it dude.I applaude you for having the patience to put up with these idiots this far,but they just don't listen to logic.I already proved them wrong by providing the same three sources and they still try to come up with crap excuses.
@Overlord:Yeah,this is exactly why I want this pointless thread closed down.The idiots have the proof right infront of them,and yet they still come up with some stupid excuse.
Originally posted by DE Luke
@Vious:First,Jam's post is not proof,it's his opinion,which opinon=crap,in a debate.
Originally posted by DE Luke
Second,why don't YOU go under a bridge,fanboy,considering you don't listen to Lucas' ,the Screenplay and the Novel's word for it and just insert your own opinion.
Originally posted by Darth Vious
Anakin prepares to grab Dooku's Arms:Anakin Grabs Dooku's arms immobilizing his lightsaber:
Anakin begins to move his lightsaber in to sever Dooku's hands.
Is that clear enough? Is that good enough evidence? It's from the f*cking movie, so you can't get any better evidence for what Anakin is doing!
As for my comments about Lucas' word, I stand by them. He can say whatever he likes in commentary about what he'd wanted to do with a scene, but ultimately, that means f*ck all compared to the actual finished film: If he hadreally intended for a certain thing to happen or be said in a movie, then he would have included it. When contradicting the movie, all Lucas is doing, is providing an opinion. As I just said. If he really intended for a scene to play out a certain way, then he would have f*cking filmed it that way and edited it that way. A point I raised before shows just 'how canon' Lucas' opinions are:
[b]In ANH, Luke was attracted to Leia, and clearly didn't like the idea of Han pursuing her. In ESB, when she kissed him (admitedly, it was to piss off Han), Luke was totally smug. If anything Lucas says or does is canon (including the movies) then that can only mean that Lucas intended for Luke to be attracted to Leia, something we in the Real World, like to call incest.Originally posted by Sin Harvest
What does that have to do with anything? Luke didn't know Leia was his sisterNo, but Lucas did, yet he intentionally wrote scenes that had Luke attracted to Leia. The point I'm illustrating is that Lucas' intentions and opinions can still be overruled by the actual content of the movies, rather than what he had intended to do. [/B]
So, unless you have any actual evidence to refute those facts, I think you'd better get your Skywalker-fanboy ass out of my face.
No,the movie ISN'T the highest level of canon,fanboy,Lucas IS!And he says that Anakin>Dooku,that is from the f*cking guy who made the movie!The same one who made the Screenplay that said Anakin>Dooku!So unless YOU have any evidence that overrites Lucas' words, besides your own overbiased opinion(Which is EXACTLY what you provided below those movie stills) , you better get your Dooku loving ass out of my face!
Originally posted by DE Luke
No,the movie ISN'T the highest level of canon,fanboy,Lucas IS!And he says that Anakin>Dooku,that is from the f*cking guy who made the movie!The same one who made the Screenplay that said Anakin>Dooku!
Originally posted by DE Luke
So unless YOU have any evidence that overrites Lucas' words, besides your own overbiased opinion(Which is EXACTLY what you provided below those movie stills) , you better get your Dooku loving ass out of my face!
1.I didn't ask for your opinion,fanboy,I asked that you provide proof that overrites Lucas' words(Who, let me remind you,is the GUY WHO MADE THE MOVIE!!)
2.Why should I?I already gave you Lucas' word,the Screenplay,and the novel as proof.It's not my fault that you can't just except that Lucas' words are right and yours are wrong.
Originally posted by DE Luke
1.I didn't ask for your opinion,fanboy,I asked that you provide proof that overrites Lucas' words(Who, let me remind you,is the GUY WHO MADE THE MOVIE!!)
Originally posted by DE Luke
2.Why should I?I already gave you Lucas' word,the Screenplay,and the novel as proof.It's not my fault that you can't just except that Lucas' words are right and yours are wrong.