Dooku's Skill

Started by DE Luke28 pages
DE Luke Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Vious
But Lucas wrote it!!! That must mean it's more important than anything else!!!!111 Lucas wanted Luke to want to kiss Leia!!!111111

How can you unleash your power when someone has hold of your arms?


1.Purely speculation.

2.He had hold of one arm,Dooku still had his left,and even then, he still lost.And according to Lucas, the Official Source,Dooku lost to Anakin fair.If Dooku wasn't going all out,then why didn't attempt a Force Lightning or Choke with his Left Hand?Most likely because he WAS going all out and was tired.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
1.Purely speculation.

Speculation? Are you blind?! It's clear what Luke's intentions are in that clip! A clip that was written by Lucas.

Originally posted by DE Luke
2.He had hold of one arm,Dooku still had his left,and even then, he still lost.And according to Lucas, the Official Source,Dooku lost to Anakin fair.If Dooku wasn't going all out,then why didn't attempt a Force Lightning or Choke with his Left Hand?Most likely because he WAS going all out and was tired.

I admit, the stills are hardly as clear as a DVD, but, it is possible to see that Anakin had trapped both of Dooku's arms, so the question remains: How could Dooku do anything with both his arms immobilized?

Anakin prepares to grab Dooku's Arms:

Anakin Grabs Dooku's arms immobilizing his lightsaber:

Anakin begins to move his lightsaber in to sever Dooku's hands.

DE Luke Senior Member

1.Again,purely speculation,we never here what Lucas mean't to do with that scene,we only see the clip.

2.How could Anakin grab both of Dooku's wrists with one hand?He'd need both to do so.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
1.Again,purely speculation,we never here what Lucas mean't to do with that scene,we only see the clip.

What speculation is there?? Luke is clearly moving to kiss Leia!

Originally posted by DE Luke
2.How could Anakin grab both of Dooku's wrists with one hand?He'd need both to do so.

He didn't grab Dooku's wrists with his hand. He used his arm and elbow to immobilize them. Re-watch the scene on DVD, and with the better picture clarity, the move is easier to see.

DE Luke Senior Member

1.Yes,but did Lucas explain what that scene was for?No

2.Just checked my DVD,he grabbed Dooku's right hand while both of Dooku's hands were next to each other and then sliced through both of the wrists.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by DE Luke
1.Yes,but did Lucas explain what that scene was for?No

It doesn't matter if Lucas explained anything, he still wrote it.

Originally posted by DE Luke
2.Just checked my DVD,he grabbed Dooku's right hand while both of Dooku's hands were next to each other and then sliced through both of the wrists.

I just re-checked myself, and I stand corrected... Anakin definitely uses his left elbow and left arm to initially move Dooku's arms down, but when the shot cuts to 'the severing' shot, his arm has moved and his hand is simply pushing against Dooku's upper hand (Dooku's lower hand is still on the lower grip of his saber) (most likely Christopher and Hayden moved positions slightly when the camera was re-located for the close up shot)
Even so, the speed with which the move is performed is too fast for Dooku to be able to properly react to (and is still a physical grab rather than actually cutting him while they were still duelling, like Dooku did when he severed Anakin's arm in AotC)

Pyro Tyrannus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

In order to cater to everyone, Dooku is better duellist and is better in the force than Anakin, while Anakin has more raw power and potential than Dooku.

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

Originally posted by Darth Vious
It doesn't matter if Lucas explained anything, he still wrote it.

I just re-checked myself, and I stand corrected... Anakin definitely uses his left elbow and left arm to initially move Dooku's arms down, but when the shot cuts to 'the severing' shot, his arm has moved and his hand is simply pushing against Dooku's upper hand (Dooku's lower hand is still on the lower grip of his saber) (most likely Christopher and Hayden moved positions slightly when the camera was re-located for the close up shot)
Even so, the speed with which the move is performed is too fast for Dooku to be able to properly react to (and is still a physical grab rather than actually cutting him while they were still duelling, like Dooku did when he severed Anakin's arm in AotC)

You are saying Dooku lost because he is old. Well guess what I am a lot younger then my grandpa but he can still put me on the ground without much trouble.

All I'm hearing is some Dooku fanboys trying to come up with something so that their great Hero didn't die at the hands of the Chosen One; the one destined to destroy the Sith.

Escape81 Restricted

Lucas's words are official canon.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
You are saying Dooku lost because he is old. Well guess what I am a lot younger then my grandpa but he can still put me on the ground without much trouble.

Wow, totally irrelevent anecdotal evidence, fantastic!!! But, to get into the spirit of things, how old are you, and how old is your grandpa?
Actually, I'm saying that Dooku lost because Anakin immoblized his arms prior to cutting his hands off. Anakin was able to do this because he was physically stronger than Dooku, and their respective ages would be a good explanation as to why he is stronger.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
All I'm hearing is some Dooku fanboys trying to come up with something so that their great Hero didn't die at the hands of the Chosen One; the one destined to destroy the Sith.

I've posted stills from the movie that clearly show how and why Anakin overcame Dooku. I don't dispute the fact that Dooku lost, I'm just pointing out that he was not actually bested in a contest of saber skill, but physically overpowered.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Escape81
Lucas's words are official canon.

Actually, they can be overridden by the movie, so they are not the highest level of canon, that honor goes to the movies. The proof of this is Empire Strikes Back, and this deleted scene that Lucas would have a)written and b) intended to be in the movie (but was actually cut out, presumeably by Irving Kirshner)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDymXAKFJ8s&search=leia%20kissing%20luke
All arguing that Lucas' words are the highest canon will get you is a redneck wannabe Jedi who, in Lucas' original intentions, had the hots for his sister, so it's your choice, either movies can overrule Lucas' intentions, or Luke's an incestuous redneck...

Escape81 Restricted

I'm not doubting you, but I'd like for you to tell me where it says that the movies are on a higher level of canon.

As far as I am aware, they are on equal footing - with Lucas having the ultimate decision.

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed
Originally posted by Darth Vious
Actually, they can be overridden by the movie, so they are not the highest level of canon, that honor goes to the movies. The proof of this is Empire Strikes Back, and this deleted scene that Lucas would have a)written and b) intended to be in the movie (but was actually cut out, presumeably by Irving Kirshner)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDymXAKFJ8s&search=leia%20kissing%20luke
All arguing that Lucas' words are the highest canon will get you is a redneck wannabe Jedi who, in Lucas' original intentions, had the hots for his sister, so it's your choice, either movies can overrule Lucas' intentions, or Luke's an incestuous redneck...

Alright Return of the Jedi came out after a New Hope and the Empire Strikes Back.

Now answer me this; has any movie came out after Revenge of the Sith that states Count Dooku was going easy on Anakin? No. And since Revenge of the Sith is the last Star Wars movie then anything Lucas says now is the highest form of canon.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Escape81
I'm not doubting you, but I'd like for you to tell me where it says that the movies are on a higher level of canon.

As far as I am aware, they are on equal footing - with Lucas having the ultimate decision.


It might not be written anywhere that the movies are the highest level, but take a look at the clip in the link. As I said, it clearly shows Luke going to kiss Leia. Lucas would have written this scene. It did not however, make it into the final cut of the movie:ergo, the movie superceded Lucas' intentions as the higher canon.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Alright Return of the Jedi came out after a New Hope and the Empire Strikes Back.

Indeed it did... So what? That just proves even further that a movie can override Lucas' intention (for Luke to kiss Leia in ESB) by then establishing (at the time) that she's his sister. Lucas knew all along that Luke and Leia were brother and sister, but he still wrote the scene (which was ultimately cut out of the movie)

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Now answer me this; has any movie came out after Revenge of the Sith that states Count Dooku was going easy on Anakin? No. And since Revenge of the Sith is the last Star Wars movie then anything Lucas says now is the highest form of canon.

I'm sorry, but your argument is flawed. You are correct that no movie has come out saying that Dooku was going easy on Anakin (although the novelization does allude to that) However, that still does not mean that Lucas' word is the highest form of canon, as it has already been proven that his word or opinion can be overridden by the final movie. If it can be overridden by one movie, then it can be overridden by any of the movies. As I pointed out when I used my own artwork as an example: An artist's intentions or opinions about their work are irrelevent when compared to the actual finished piece.

Darth Vious Restricted

Also, you have not answered my question about the ages of yourself and your grandfather. You were the one who brought that into the debate, at least have the courtessy to explain your reasoning via facts.

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

Wow, totally irrelevent anecdotal evidence, fantastic!!! But, to get into the spirit of things, how old are you, and how old is your grandpa?

I am 17 and my grandpa is 88.

I'm sorry, but your argument is flawed. You are correct that no movie has come out saying that Dooku was going easy on Anakin (although the novelization does allude to that) However, that still does not mean that Lucas' word is the highest form of canon, as it has already been proven that his word or opinion can be overridden by the final movie. If it can be overridden by one movie, then it can be overridden by any of the movies. As I pointed out when I used my own artwork as an example: An artist's intentions or opinions about their work are irrelevent when compared to the actual finished piece.

Then where in any movie does it say Dooku went easy on Anakin? Lucas said Palpatine pitted the two in combat to see who was stronger and if Dooku went easy on Ani then that was pointless.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
I am 17 and my grandpa is 88.

I would say that if you can be put down by an 88 year old man, you should be f*cking ashamed of yourself, but, I don't know how active your grandpa is. Also, at 17, you have not yet quite reached the peak of your adult potential, that's not till you're about 25, so that's hardly the same as comparing Anakin to Dooku.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Then where in any movie does it say Dooku went easy on Anakin? Lucas said Palpatine pitted the two in combat to see who was stronger and if Dooku went easy on Ani then that was pointless.

I never said that it did say that in the movie. I just said that a) Anakin did not beat Dooku by besting him as a swordsman, and b) that if one movie can supercede Lucas' opinion or intention, then that means that any movie can supercede Lucas' intentions.

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

For information on what is cannon check this out. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f38/t20461.html

a similer post here.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f5/t20463.html

in them it defines what is cannon. i will now post part of the cannon definition below. Click on the links if you want to read the whole thing.

"Lucasfilm Canon Policy: "Canon includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers."

This affirms the idea that only the things that GL himself directly created can count for canon. The rules that follow are awkward, but basically the films are the 'primary' canon and the books and others are 'secondary', in that you assume what they say is true unless they are contradicted by the films (like Owen Lars being Obi-Wan's brother, for example)."

From the way it looks above. The Movies are higher cannon then the rest. In the movies Anakin had to grab Dooku's arm to win. Nothing in that entire battle proves Anakin was a better duelest then Dooku and nothing proves Anakin has better force control then Dooku. All it proves was Anakin won the fight by overpowering Dooku who was at the very least 60 years old. The movies overrule Lucas's words. Case closed. That is part of the rules on these forums. I realy think the staff needs to post a similer set of rules on the EU forum to prevent this. Though to be honest these Dooku threads do not belong here anyway.

Escape81 Restricted

Hmm . . .

I'll have to look into that. But, I am sure that I read somewhere that Lucas's words act as official canon - since he and he alone is responsible for the birth of Star Wars.

Especially when the situation is ambigious. The screenplay and novelization are indeed canon - and Lucas's words relieve the ambiguity on the situation. He says that Anakin defeated Dooku through superior ability.

That leads me to believe that it is true.