Dooku's Skill

Originally posted by Escape81
Then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

My opinion:

Dooku and Obi-Wan got tired as the fight progressed, whereas Anakin got even stronger (the official script even says that). When Dooku took Obi-Wan out of commission, and he taunted Anakin - inadvertantly advising him to use his rage and aggression - it gave Anakin the strength he needed to eventually overpower and defeat Count Dooku, thus making Anakin more powerful.

My opinion is supported by Lucas's commentary, the official script, and the novelization - all three are the highest canon sources. The movie leaves certain points vague, but it even underlines my overall point - when Anakin tapped into his rage and anger - he received the power to defeat Count Dooku.

The point is Anakin is physically stronger than Dooku. Anakin is NOT the better duellist. But we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
The point is Anakin is physically stronger than Dooku. Anakin is NOT the better duellist. But we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Your point is that he's physically stronger. You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is backed only by Darth Vious's little screen-shots. My opinion has three canon sources.

Originally posted by Escape81
Your point is that he's physically stronger. You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is backed only by Darth Vious's little screen-shots. My opinion has three canon sources.

No, my point is backed by the movie which is the highest form of canon.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
No, my point is backed by the movie which is the highest form of canon.

Are we going to have this debate again?

Captain Rex just came in here and told you. Lucas's words are on the same level of canon - if not more so - than the movies.

You have an interpretation of what you think happened. I agree that Anakin won by physically overpowering Dooku, but the difference is - you say it was "unfair". I disagree and say that it was a fight, and a legitimate move.

So, no. You have nothing backing you.

What happened was Anakin physically subdueing the Count. Not Anakin beating the Count in a battle of lightsabers. Its that simple. The movie backs me up. Go and watch it if you dont beleive me.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
What happened was Anakin physically subdueing the Count. Not Anakin beating the Count in a battle of lightsabers. Its that simple. The movie backs me up. Go and watch it if you dont beleive me.

I've seen the fricken' movie.

Lucas says in the commentary that Mace "overpowered" Palpatine. How'd he do that? A kick in the face. He didn't swing his saber and disarm him, but nonetheless - the move still counted.

Once again. You've got nothing.

Thats irrelevant. Im talking about Anakin vs Dooku. And Anakin physically bet Dooku. He did not beat him because he has more skill with a saber.

Originally posted by Escape81
Are we going to have this debate again?

Captain Rex just came in here and told you. Lucas's words are on the same level of canon - if not more so - than the movies.

You have an interpretation of what you think happened. I agree that Anakin won by physically overpowering Dooku, but the difference is - you say it was "unfair". I disagree and say that it was a fight, and a legitimate move.

So, no. You have nothing backing you.

As I explained a Mod had already posted what was cannon and rex is not a mod on the Movie or EU threads so what he says here does not matter. Movie is the highest form of cannon and the commentary and all that is second to all that. Neither side is getting anywhere with this though. There is no way for you to know if the script you found is legit. Also I do have an example Lucas intending something for one of his movies that did not turn out that way. In the video Lucas made From Star Wars to Jedi, Lucas said that Return of the Jedi was orginaly intended to be a childrens film. Now as you can see it became loved by people. Not just kids. Now we can argue here all year and is it obvious that all we can agree on is to disagree with each other. Both sides have said all that can realy be said. Just look how much everyone is repeating themselves. So let's hope this thread just dies cause I think everyone except for overlord is sick of this thread. Let's face it the only reason we keep repeating ourselves is cause we are to stubborn to give up.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Thats irrelevant. Im talking about Anakin vs Dooku. And Anakin physically bet Dooku. He did not beat him because he has more skill with a saber.

That is the same thing.

Mace physically beat Palpatine as well. He, like Anakin, didn't do it with a saber swing.

But here's the fundamental difference:

- Count Dooku predominantly fights with just his lightsaber. You said it yourself.

- Palpatine fought against Yoda, actively utilizing the Force.

Count Dooku took Anakin on the same why he fights most of his other opponents. And he lost. I don't dispute the fact that it's likely that, if Count Dooku used the Force, he would've won. But he didn't. Anakin is his superior in lightsaber ability - if only by a hair.

As I explained a Mod had already posted what was cannon and rex is not a mod on the Movie or EU threads so what he says here does not matter.

What Rex says does matter.

Movie is the highest form of cannon and the commentary and all that is second to all that.

Lucas created the movies. He created Star Wars. It all belongs to him. The ideas for the movies? Him. The writing credits for the movies? Him. He directed this movie.

Lucas's words are first-class canon!

Neither side is getting anywhere with this though. There is no way for you to know if the script you found is legit.

It's the official screenplay. Don't dispute the sources.

In the video Lucas made From Star Wars to Jedi, Lucas said that Return of the Jedi was orginaly intended to be a childrens film. Now as you can see it became loved by people. Not just kids.

Key word? "INTENDED". And that is "out-of-universe". His words as far as the plot and such of Star Wars is absolute canon.

I cant be bothered rebuttling your points Escape81. Lets just agree to disagree and let the thread die.

where did you get off that Lucas directed the movie. lol. The only movie he directed all the way through was ANH. He hired people to direct all the others. Yes he created star wars but the end result that we see in the movie is the ultimate source. Lucas could go and say that Yoda could beat sidious in his sleep but it does not make it true. As it states on that thread on what it cannon. It says that the Movie is the primary cannon. Also how do you know that Screenplay is official? Do you have any proof. The last time i was told where someone got one on this thread was from theforce.net. That is a good site for info but once again everything there is unofficial. So why don't you take those screen plays and go wipe your *** with them. The movies are the highest cannon and get over it.

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
where did you get off that Lucas directed the movie. lol. The only movie he directed all the way through was ANH. He hired people to direct all the others. Yes he created star wars but the end result that we see in the movie is the ultimate source. Lucas could go and say that Yoda could beat sidious in his sleep but it does not make it true. As it states on that thread on what it cannon. It says that the Movie is the primary cannon. Also how do you know that Screenplay is official? Do you have any proof. The last time i was told where someone got one on this thread was from theforce.net. That is a good site for info but once again everything there is unofficial. So why don't you take those screen plays and go wipe your *** with them. The movies are the highest cannon and get over it.

Considering Lucas WROTE all the scripts for Star Wars meaning he WROTE that Count Dooku would get defeated by Anakin in Revenge of the Sith that makes his word the highest canon. And I agree with Ox that we should let this thread die because the Dooku fanboys just want their great hero to die being a pawn instead of going all out at the end.

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
Since you are not moderater the the actual movies or EU your word does not mean jack ****. That message on what is cannon was posted by a moderater that is actualy one of the ones in charge of those thread. The vs form is just that. VS. The movie is the ultimate cannon. Nothing in the movie proves Anakin is a better duelest. All it proves is that he grabbed ahold of Dooku and overpowered him.

Originally posted by Escape81
Anakin is his superior in lightsaber ability - if only by a hair.

Originally posted by Escape81
Captain Rex just came in here and told you. Lucas's words are on the same level of canon - if not more so - than the movies.

[Edit to fix links]

The novel clearly shows that Dooku aimed to kill Skywalker too. Who had the upper hand all the time during their duel alone? Anakin.... Fact is that even though Anakin may have taken a cheap shot to win, Dooku was not near of wounding Anakin.

Originally posted by kamikz
The novel clearly shows that Dooku aimed to kill Skywalker too.

Originally posted by kamikz
Who had the upper hand all the time during their duel alone? Anakin....

Originally posted by kamikz
Fact is that even though Anakin may have taken a cheap shot to win, Dooku was not near of wounding Anakin.

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Anakin is not Dooku's superior in lightsaber ability, only strength. If he was, then he would have cut Dooku while they were actually 'crossing blades' or at the very least tagged him as Dooku did Obi-Wan in AotC. The fact is (supported by the highest form of canon-the movie) that Dooku was able to block all of Anakin's swings, which makes Dooku the superior swordsman. Anakin overpowered Dooku. He did not out-duel him.

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Not to begin with. Anakin would not have been any good as a Sith General if he was dead, and regardless of the novelization, the look on Dooku's face and gasps he give when Palpatine order's Anakin to kill him express absolute surprize (not that he's going to get killed exactly, but that Palpatine has ordered it rather than protecting him)

Why did Anakin have the upper hand during their duel alone?

And Anakin was nowhere near wounding Dooku either. Re-read my comment:

Yes, Lucas himself said that Dooku was just supposed to fight Anakin, the novelisation says that Dooku aimed to kill Anakin.... And they sent Assaj to kill Anakin, if Anakin didn't overcome that then he didn't deserve to be a sith, and that was Assaj as a padawan. This was just a similar test....

Because he used his rage and overcame Dooku. Dooku didn't get a single hit. And Dooku was getting more and more tired (novelisation) while Anakin was not tired at all. Anakin would have won sooner or later...

Originally posted by kamikz
Yes, Lucas himself said that Dooku was just supposed to fight Anakin, the novelisation says that Dooku aimed to kill Anakin.... And they sent Assaj to kill Anakin, if Anakin didn't overcome that then he didn't deserve to be a sith, and that was Assaj as a padawan. This was just a similar test....

Because he used his rage and overcame Dooku. Dooku didn't get a single hit. And Dooku was getting more and more tired (novelisation) while Anakin was not tired at all. Anakin would have won sooner or later...

"that Dooku was able to block all of Anakin's swings, which makes Dooku the superior swordsman" OMG!! HE DID NOT DIE IMMEDIATELY SO THAT MEANS HE IS SUPERIOR SWORDSMAN!!!! WHY DIDANT I THINK OF THAT?!!!