Dooku's Skill

Started by DE Luke28 pages
DE Luke Senior Member

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
despite theforce.net being a great site. It is still techinquely unofficial. We know that Dooku thought Palpatine would not betray him. Just look at the count Dooku page on starwars.com which is official.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/countdooku/index.html

Skywalker severed both of Dooku's hands and snatched the Sith Lord's red-bladed weapon. Dooku fell to his knees before Skywalker, who was now holding two lightsabers at his throat. "Kill him," advised Palpatine -- and Dooku fully realized that treachery was the way of the Sith. He was expendable, Dooku realized. Skywalker was the true prize, the gifted apprentice, the new Sith

that is a paragraph from that page. This is how we know Dooku thought Palpatine would save him. How is he fighting his hardest when he we know the he did not use every opportunity to hurt Anakin to his advantage. We know Dooku was trying to get Anakin to turn to the darkside from the words he said to Anakin. Also if someone thinks they will be safe reguardless of the outcome they tend not to fight as hard. If they know their life is on the line they tend to take advantage of every opening they can get just so they can survive. An example is the end of fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Obi-Wan saw an opening to win the fight and come out alive so he took it.

Again,you are using your own assumptions for answers.Lucas' CLEARLY stated thatt Dooku was going all out the entire fight.The novel says it,the script says it.All three are Official,unlike your opinion.And I said that the theforec.net had the script for reading.And it actually is a reliable site for SW info(can't say that about thier forums however).Look around there,it should be in the archives.But like I said,I have more than enough proof,Lucas provided his word on it,the novel has it in there,and the script has it.And about that databank quote,Dooku still couldve gone all out and even in the novel it says so that he knew he was going to be beaten,he even admitted it,and thought to himself that Sidious would have to save him.THAT'S when it also said that Dooku finally understood that Treachery is the Way if the Sith aswell,again,this coming from the novel(which is higher canon than anyone's opinions in this thread.).

Coulda,shoulda,woulda,DIDN'T.

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

The movie is the highest source of cannon. Anyone watching the fight can clearly see that Dooku was holding back in the beginning. If he intended on killing Anakin he would have blasted him with force lightning at every chance he got. Also I have stopped taking Lucas's word on things since he added in greedo shooting first in ANH. Not to mention how many times Lucas has changed his mind. For instance he is going to release a the OT on DVD again but have it how it originaly was. No added special effects and no added scenes. Does this mean the way stuff was added in to the one releases did not actualy happen or what. Lucas changes his mind when ever he sees an opportunity to make more money. Which to do you think would sell better anyways. Anakin or Dooku merchindise. The answer would be the Anakin stuff. Lots of girls have a crush on Haden and for some reason he has a lot of other fans. So how do you get those fans to keep thinking he is so great and boost the merchindise. Say Dooku was not trying his hardest and that Anakin is better. However from what you see on screen, Dooku was clearly holding back. Dooku has gone faught things to with a standstill with both mace and yoda. Does that mean the Anakin is better then either one of them. If so wouldn't that make Obi-Wan better because he beat Anakin. Obi-wan mechindise is another big seller. So more money made. As you can see, Lucas is trying trying to make them both look better then they actualy are. Maybe Lucas realy cared about the fans a long time ago. Now all he cares about his making money. For instance. If he realy cared about the fans, he would sue mickey suttle and force him to shut down supershadow.com.

Count Kent Restricted

Lucas never said that Anakin won because he was more powerful at the time. Provide exactly what he said, Luke.

And even if the scripts do say that or something along those lines, the movies are the highest form of canon if you go by these forums' policy, so they can make any interpretation of the movie they want to, and place their opinion over the scripts.

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

Originally posted by Count Kent
Lucas never said that Anakin won because he was more powerful at the time. Provide exactly what he said, Luke.

And even if the scripts do say that or something along those lines, the movies are the highest form of canon if you go by these forums' policy, so they can make any interpretation of the movie they want to, and place their opinion over the scripts.

Thank you Kent.

overlord OD'd

Of course Dooku would've crushed Anakin with force lightning at every chance he got, yeah sure. This isn't the same battle they fought last time. They were much more prepared. If Dooku could have, he would have use a force grip and bashed Anakin against a while, then disarming him. I think it's safe to assume that he couldn't.
It's also pretty dumb to go talk about merchandise: yeah, Dooku didn't try his best and Lucas made him lose because kids like that. Uhmm.. He's supposed to be Vader, the force kid. Maybe Dooku was an experienced master duelist, Anakin just learned rapidly because of his talent and beat him.
If movies are the highest form of canon and Anakin clearly outmanouvered Dooku, then you can talk about money and stupid stuff all you want. The movies show it all clear enough for me, no need for dumbass theories and 'Dooku thought Sidious would step in' and 'Dooku lowered his attention span so he wouldn't exidently kill Anakin' nonsense.

Young Star Wars fans probably can't even sleep at night that their idol was bested by a young guy. Well, if you knew the intention of the original trilogy (wich was supposed to represent Vader as the last and best of the lightsaber warriors) than it wouldn't have been such a great shock to y'all.

Count Kent Restricted

Of course Dooku couldn't just randomly pull off a force move because Anakin would have just blocked or resisted it, however Dooku would have been able to outduel Anakin and put him into a vulnerable position and then pull off a force move. And overlord, you don't know what you're talking about. It's easy to see that Dooku is not intent on killing Anakin. I mean he somehow is able to eliminate Obi-Wan in about 30 seconds, but Anakin is more powerful than him? Sure thing . 👆

overlord OD'd

Ah, Anakin was just toying with Dooku up to the point where Dooku sent that piece of metal flying down at Kenobi. Anakin comes in running, kicks Dooku off the stage. He furiously and swiftly starts fighting Dooku up until a saber lockdown. After that's done, Anakin starts fighting even harder and the fight is over before you know it.
Jam Jul thought Anakin overpowered him but the actual scene shows that Anakin outmanouvers him. Anakin pushes down the saber in a flowing motion, then lets his lightsaber slide over it to cut off the hands.
I don't know what kind of stories you are all creating around it but it is clear that Anakin beat Dooku with Dooku fighting at his best to keep up with the hard swings and without any time to pull off force tricks.
So the "it's easy to see that Dooku isn't intent on killing Anakin" makes no sense, they fight pretty fast and hard until Dooku loses.

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

Actualy it is the young fans that seem to like Anakin so much. I am a big fan of the OT Vader. But come on now. Dooku faught to a stalemate with yoda for god's sake. Are you trying to say that Anakin could beat Yoda. From watching the fight between Dooku and Anakin, I could clearly tell that Dooku was holding back. IF not he would have taken advantage of every opportunity he had to beat Anakin. Anakin was good. But Dooku had many opportunities early on to beat him and did not. Instead he continued to toy with and taunt anakin. Little did he know just how much raw strength anakin had and with one trickly manuever he cut off Dooku's hands. We knoe Dooku expected Palpatine to help him cause of the look on Dooku's face when Palpatine told Anakin to kill him. It was a look of utter shock and surprise. As for him not believing his force powers would not work on him. Are you stupid? He was able to use them against Obi-Wan just fine. Last time I checked Obi-Wan was the master and Anakin was the apprentice. His stills at best were equal to obi-wan. So whatever would work on Obi-Wan would most likly work on Anakin. I am sure in Sidious's mine he saw Anakin as weaker then Obi-Wan. It is not that he doubted his force powers would not work, he was just taking it easy on him.

overlord OD'd

Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
Actualy it is the young fans that seem to like Anakin so much. I am a big fan of the OT Vader. But come on now. Dooku faught to a stalemate with yoda for god's sake. Are you trying to say that Anakin could beat Yoda. From watching the fight between Dooku and Anakin, I could clearly tell that Dooku was holding back. IF not he would have taken advantage of every opportunity he had to beat Anakin. Anakin was good. But Dooku had many opportunities early on to beat him and did not. Instead he continued to toy with and taunt anakin. Little did he know just how much raw strength anakin had and with one trickly manuever he cut off Dooku's hands. We knoe Dooku expected Palpatine to help him cause of the look on Dooku's face when Palpatine told Anakin to kill him. It was a look of utter shock and surprise. As for him not believing his force powers would not work on him. Are you stupid? He was able to use them against Obi-Wan just fine. Last time I checked Obi-Wan was the master and Anakin was the apprentice. His stills at best were equal to obi-wan. So whatever would work on Obi-Wan would most likly work on Anakin. I am sure in Sidious's mine he saw Anakin as weaker then Obi-Wan. It is not that he doubted his force powers would not work, he was just taking it easy on him.
Shut up.

Count Kent Restricted

Overlord, you don't know what you're talking about. So are you saying that Dooku can take out Obi-Wan with complete ease but not defeat Anakin? Sure thing.

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

why should I shut up. Is it cause you know I am right? Who are you to tell me to shut up? As an american I have a right to freedom of speech. Just cause you are wrong is no reason for you to tell me to shut up. I for one find it offensive. If you tell me to shut up again i will report you to the mods for Rude behavior.

overlord OD'd

Originally posted by Count Kent
Overlord, you don't know what you're talking about. So are you saying that Dooku can take out Obi-Wan with complete ease but not defeat Anakin? Sure thing.
Is that your only argument? Dooku apperantly knows how to handle a defensive style but isn't too great against a powerful agressive style like Shienn. Do you picture Dooku high above both Anakin and Obi Wan just because he WTFpwned that dumbass Obi Wan and Anakin is his student? You have no idea what you're talking about yourself.
Making up theories and excuses for Dooku's loss is pretty pointless.
The movies show it clear enough that Dooku was outmanouvered.
Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
why should I shut up. Is it cause you know I am right? Who are you to tell me to shut up? As an american I have a right to freedom of speech. Just cause you are wrong is no reason for you to tell me to shut up. I for one find it offensive. If you tell me to shut up again i will report you to the mods for Rude behavior.
All you americans should seriously shut the hell up with your freedom of speech shit, go talk about money and character popularity somewhere else. You make no sense.

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

Everything I have said is based on what I saw in the movies. Yes Anakin did out manuver Dooku. I am not denying that. But if Dooku had not been holding back that situation would not have happened. Nothing from the film shows that he was not holding back. Was he so stupid that he did not see those opening he had to hit Anakin hard? I think not. Dooku is too experianced to not notice them. Especialy considering how many openings he had. You Anakin fanboys make me sick. Analyze the fight without being biased towards either one of them. I myself am not a big fan of either of the two. But I am a fan of Vader from the OT. But I do not find the fact of Dooku holding back insulting at all to that character. However ignoring this fact is like saying that Anakin is better then Yoda, Mace and Palpatine. Which we know is not true. Remember Dooku faught to a stand still with againt Yoda in Episode 2 and from what I have heard he faught to a stand still with Mace once. Just face it, Dooku was holding back. I have already presented many reasons why in several of my post and am getting sick of explaining it to you. And what was your response to those reason. The words shut up. Then in the last post you made directed at me you said all Americans should shut up with their freedom of speech shit. Hmm sounds like offensive behavior on your part. Consider yourself reported for that.

Count Kent Restricted

Exactly, my favorite character is Mace Windu and I really don't care about either of these two, and because of that, I like Lison can look at it objectively, and I can tell you overlord that you are plain wrong.

overlord OD'd

At least I watched the movie, you guys are just obsessed in being right. If you watch the beginning where Anakin and Kenobi start playing, you see Anakin just pointing his lightsaber to the ground when Dooku defends to Kenobi and then they start talking. Dooku punishes both after that for playing and then it gets serious.

Nothing indicating that Dooku wasn't holding back? It's more like the other way around. The fight went extremely swift and was over before you knew it. Dooku had to adapt to the powerslashes of Shienn and it all was over before he knew it. You kids probably haven't watched the actual scene in a while to think that Dooku was holding back and lost by letting Anakin get more powerful or something other random made up bullshit. You can threaten with reporting all you want, you only talk about fandom and nothing new anyway. All you say is that you think he held back wich he obviously didn't because he had to keep up with Anakin's powerful and furiously fast swings.

This fight isn't just one of many fights that happen, this one went incredibly faster paced than most. How you (kent) can view his screwed up post as impressively objective is probably because of your preferences of members here. You should read the posts he makes wich manage to hold almost nothing of meaning to this argument and the blablabla fanboy nonsense he puts in.
Just go watch the movie or something, you guys make no sense.

Jam-Jul_Lison Dark Jedi Master

I am 21. i will be 22 in july. for your information I watched the movie again a few days ago. Had Dooku been serious about killing anakin he would have done it at the beginning. He also would not have been taunting Anakin so much during the fight. Maybe you should watch the fight a little more closly.

Count Kent Restricted

I just watched that scene right now on my pc, and it's plain obvious. You're just dumb overlord and not very perceptive.

overlord OD'd

Ah, you guys don't know what you're talking about. You probably think Dooku can fight even faster and was magically holding back although I don't think he would also hold back on defense or that that would allow him to screw up and let Anakin bust off both hands.
Anyway, the two of you are both proven retards and care more about getting the last word than the truth apperantly. Just too bad that none of you has some actual arguments instead of saying "no, he held back" or "no, you are wrong, you are stupid" but that's just how children are unfortunately.

Darth Vious Restricted

I just rewatched the scene on DVD both with and without the commentary. The only point where Dooku is actually struggling with Anakin is when they get into saber locks, and it then comes down to the physical strength of the fighter (Obviously, Anakin is physically stronger than Dooku) After the initial flurry of the double attack by Obi-Wan and Anakin, Dooku is still in good spirits and confident in his ability. The only thing he does do is try to seperate Obi-Wan and Anakin so he can deal with Anakin.
Lucas makes no mention at all in the commentary about Dooku fighting to his full extent, the only mention he does say, is that the actor, Christopher Lee, tried his hardest to perform the duel, but they had to use a stunt double.
From on screen evidence, the only person who actually stood up to Dooku in a full out duel, was Master Yoda. Anakin only stood up to Dooku in RotS because Dooku was clearly taunting him and not trying to kill him. (look how easily Dooku disabled both Anakin and Obi-Wan in AotC, and how easily he threw them around with the Force in RotS) Had it not been a plot requirement that Dooku lost, and been a fair fight, then Dooku had the superior fencing skills. The moves Palpatine displayed against Mace were so readable that they were laughable, (and it was again, only plot necessity that prevented the Jedi from arresting him) so it's clear that he's hardly an exceptional lightsaber duellist (although his Force Powers are more powerfull than Dooku's).

Pyro Tyrannus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

Originally posted by DE Luke
Oh,sorry,I don't speak ignorance. Your the ones getting owned in the debate.We're actually using proof,your just providing us with your own overbiased opinions.George Lucas(commentary),The ROTS Novel,and the Script, ALL three state that Dooku was going at his hardest.The only facts you have stated is how incredibly stupid you fanboys really are.And my name is my own,the fact that actually had to resort to making fun of my username proves that your an egotistical brat who thinks his opinion is higher than plain fact itself.Sorry,doesn't work that way in a debate.And the fact that you're arguing with YOUR opinion over Lucas' own words,when he CLEARLY stated in that commentary that Dooku was going at his hardest, is about as dumb as you fanboys can get.The novel,sketchy it may be,is still a higher canon than YOUR opinions.And it also clearly states Dooku ,stupidly,underestimating both Anakin and Obi-Wan,in the beginning and then getting seriously OWNed by them both in the middle of the duel.It also states, in the novel,that Dooku had to get Obi-Wan out of the fight otherwise he would be overwelmed and killed early on in the duel.And even after,he still got majorly OWNed by Anakin when going at his hardest(Yes,his HARDEST.Again,from Lucas' Commentary,the ROTS Novel,and the Script.).And where's your proof that can actually contradict Lucas' word(Who is the ULTIMATE source of canon),huh?Oh,thats right.You don't have any.I think you just about OWNed yourself right there,moron.

@Rampant Ox😮h ,now you use that excuse?Where was it when we were talking about Anakin and Obi-Wan and Dooku in AOTC,huh?Don't try that petty excuse,old man Dooku knew exactly what he was getting into.It's not Anakin's and Obi-Wan's fault that Dooku wasn't as skilled as YOU claim.If he was,then HE wouldve walked away from that fight,not Anakin.

"All too easy..."

You can't speak for yourself you stupid troll. A gift for you. . .

Yo momma so hairy. . .

she cornrows her armpits.

Yo momma like railroad tracks. . .

She gets laid all across america.

Get of the f*cking forums you stupid b!tch. Your just mad cause me, Ox, Council, and Kent actually have a good arguement and you and your little Skywalker fanboy boyfriends have jack sh!t. You go by non-canonical sites like theforce.net. I tell you what why don't you visit this site, it suits you. . .