Dooku's Skill

Started by Darth Kreiger28 pages
Darth Kreiger Senior Member

Jedi can deflect Force Pushes with Force Pull or another Force Push as shown in Jedi Academy, and Jedi Outcast. Mace was on the ready for any Force Powers.

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed
Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Jedi can deflect Force Pushes with Force Pull or another Force Push as shown in Jedi Academy, and Jedi Outcast. Mace was on the ready for any Force Powers.

Can you prove that? That's a video game thing to help make the games easier like Force Heal. Obi-Wan and Anakin didn't avoid it in their power struggle.

Count Kent Restricted

TK can be resisted, and blocked with a saber.

Darth Kreiger Senior Member

Force Heal was a real force power though, Jedi heal incredibly quicker than any other person, and can fight when severely Injured. Obi-Wan and Anakin shooting each other back didn't make sense, as 1 would have overpowered the other, shooting only 1. They made a shockwave I guess because they held it for so long or something. No answer really to that

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

In all the books and movies I have read and all the in game cutscenes that held Force Push no one was able to block it.

Captain REX Networking
Originally posted by Count Kent
TK can be resisted, and blocked with a saber.

Telekinetics can be blocked with a lightsaber? Um, no...

BlaxicanTroller Restricted

I can block TK with my light saber...

Count Kent Restricted
Originally posted by Captain REX
Telekinetics can be blocked with a lightsaber? Um, no...

ROTS game. I know it isn't exactly 'canon', but they wouldn't have considered it if it wasn't realistic in temrs of the SW saga.

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed
Originally posted by Count Kent
ROTS game. I know it isn't exactly 'canon', but they wouldn't have considered it if it wasn't realistic in temrs of the SW saga.

To make the game easier they would. Like Force Heal or Force Protect.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by overlord
Oh, so now Mace went through the same stuff as Anakin, huh?

I never said that at all. I said, that Mace was caught off guard by a chickenshit move (which Anakin has a habit of using on people) that was impossible to avoid. I also said that Palpatine's moves were (to anyone who actually knows how to fence) entirely predictable and readable. For example, just before he got his saber kicked out of his hand, he pulled it back so the hilt was near his hip, and opens his mouth like he's going to suck a fat one. It was pretty obvious that he was about to lunge the blade forwards...

Originally posted by overlord
Even Sidious didn't go full out against Mace

Yes he did, and when he did, he had his lightsaber kicked out of his hand. Had Anakin not stepped in, he would have been cut down (as Mace had no trouble grounding the Force Lightning at close range with his lightsaber, where in AotC, Obi-Wan was a good 20 ft from Dooku when he grounded the lightning on his lightsaber.)

Originally posted by overlord
only Yoda could fight Dooku.

Absolutely.
In the duels in AotC, Dooku tagged Obi-Wan with his saber without any trouble at all. Anakin's initial advantage of two sabers was short lived as Dooku cut one in half, and it wasn't long after that, that Dooku cut his arm off. Master Yoda, on the other hand, was able to go full out against Dooku, and stalemate Dooku's attacks. No other Jedi on-screen was able to do this.
In Clone Wars, Dooku cut through Assaj's sabers without difficulty, but, he was not trying to kill her, as he and Sidious wanted her as a disciple. When he trained Grievous, he was able to disarm Grievous easily (but again, he was not trying to kill him)
In RotS, Dooku deflected Anakin and Obi-Wan's duel attack with ease, and then used the Force to throw them both around to seperate them. There was no mention on the DVD of Dooku fighting to his best, only that the actor portraying him was trying his best, and again, Dooku thought Anakin would play a role in the Sith ranks, so, as with Assaj, he was not trying to kill, he was just providing what the Jedi would consider a Trial. As I said before, Anakin did not beat Dooku in a blade on blade duel, he physically overpowered the older man (which is hardly difficult given their respective ages) by grabbing his arms, which immobilized his lightsaber, and then cut his hands off, something Dooku had no way of preventing, so it was a totally chickenshit move on Anakin's part. Dooku on the other hand, had previously cut Anakin's arm off while in the middle of a blade to blade confrontation, and did not have to resort to physical means, so was clearly a superior swordsman.

Originally posted by overlord
Although it is logical that some of you only want this to be true so badly, and there probably would never be a way to show that Dooku and Sidious did fight at their full capacities (in the minds of the fans, they can always do even better), all we can do is go by the movie and not some lame ass theories made up by desperate fans.

As I said above, the DVD commentary only said that Christopher Lee was trying his hardest, not Count Dooku.

Originally posted by overlord
In most of your minds, your favorite characters can never screw up apperantly

Well, Obi-Wan is my favorite character, and I've just pointed out several incidents when Dooku totally pwned him, so I'm not saying that he's unbeatable at all. That's the province of the Skywalker/Boba fanboys. I've just pointed out the skills that Dooku a) has, and b) has demonstrated on numerous occasions.

Originally posted by overlord
it all was a big scheme to get killed or beaten! Yes yes, of course!

Well seeing as how Lucas had already shown what happened 20 years later, yes, it was a case of characters being killed off because they were not in the OT, but, had the plot not required their deaths, their shown skills should have made them the victors of their respective duels.

Originally posted by overlord
By the way, f*ck your plot requirement bullshit, Lucas meant it this way

You just contradicted yourself and proved the point. Lucas meant for the outcomes to be as they were (so they had to be as they were in the movies) That still does not mean however, that was plot requirement irrelevent, that the victor would still necessarily win.

Originally posted by overlord
Anakin just bested Dooku.

Not in blade to blade combat. As I said above, Anakin did not beat Dooku in a blade on blade duel, he physically overpowered the older man (which is hardly difficult given their respective ages) by grabbing his arms, which immobilized his lightsaber, and then cut his hands off, something Dooku had no way of preventing, so it was a totally chickenshit move on Anakin's part. Dooku on the other hand, had previously cut Anakin's arm off while in the middle of a blade to blade confrontation, and did not have to resort to physical means.

Originally posted by overlord
There are no signs of taunting anymore once they start fighting seriously.

Dooku's comment:
I sense great fear in you, Skywalker! You have hate. You have anger. But you do not use them!

Was made whilst their blades where locked (in the serious fighting) At that point, Anakin lost his temper (as he so often does) drove Dooku back through greater physical strength (Dooku was still able to block all his lightsaber blows) and finally grabbed Dooku to cut his hands off, which, as I said, was a totally chickenshit move as Dooku could do nothing to prevent it.

Originally posted by overlord
And get the hell out of here with your nonsense that Dooku could have also easily thrown a balcony on top of Anakin.

That was never my argument, but, he was able to do so to Obi-Wan, and had Anakin been knocked out when he was thrown across the room (like Obi-Wan was) Dooku could have done the same thing to Anakin.

Originally posted by overlord
You Dooku fanboys fail just like he did.

On the contrary, I've countered every point you made, and pointed out how they were incorrect.

Originally posted by overlord
There is no indication of Dooku not giving his all

Other than the previously mentioned fact that Dooku thought he was testing Anakin (in the same way he tested Assaj) We all know that he wasn't, but he thought he was, so, as with Assaj, he had no intention to kill, only to provide a Trial.

Originally posted by overlord

No matter what Lucas shows, you would never accept that Dooku would be beaten by a brat.

Because in a fair blade to blade duel (where the outcome would not matter) he wouldn't be. As you said previously, the only person who was shown on screen to duel full out with Dooku (and not get hacked up) was Master Yoda.

Originally posted by overlord
I see that people also haven't accepted yet that Mace defeated Sidious in a saber fight.

Indeed he did. I said that above. Not only did Mace defeat Palpatine in a duel, he was able to ground Force lightning point blank, and would have killed Palpatine had Anakin not pulled the chickenshit move of intercepting his saber arm on the down swing, when it would be impossible to stop his move.

Originally posted by overlord
Stop making up bullshit and get over it.

I haven't made up anything. All I've done is pointed out facts as shown by the most canon source of all, the movies, and Lucas' own commentaries.
[Edit for SPAG]

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Oh and by the way why do the Dooku fanboys want Dooku to be holding back against Anakin?

Because he was.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
That makes Dooku's death pathetic that he was tricked and lied to so he could die.

That's the entire point! Dooku was nothing more than a pawn in Palpatine's scheme! He was tricked and lied to so his death (at Anakin's hand) would prove Anakin's worthiness to Palpatine.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
If Dooku did go all out at least you can see he went out fighting till the end.

As I said above, Dooku went out fighting, but, only in the sense that he thought he was testing Anakin (as he tested Assaj) He wasn't going to make it easy for either of them, but, he wasn't going to intentionally kill them, because that was not what was planned for them. Dooku's failure was not realizing that if/when Anakin proved himself, he would no longer be Palpatine's apprentice (as he had been having tested Assaj)

Captain REX Networking
Originally posted by Count Kent
ROTS game. I know it isn't exactly 'canon', but they wouldn't have considered it if it wasn't realistic in temrs of the SW saga.

Nope...game mechanics don't count. If you don't see it anywhere outside of gameplay, it ain't happening.

Rampant ox Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Vious

Absolutely.
In the duels in AotC, Dooku tagged Obi-Wan with his saber without any trouble at all. Anakin's initial advantage of two sabers was short lived as Dooku cut one in half, and it wasn't long after that, that Dooku cut his arm off. Master Yoda, on the other hand, was able to go full out against Dooku, and stalemate Dooku's attacks. No other Jedi on-screen was able to do this.
In Clone Wars, Dooku cut through Assaj's sabers without difficulty, but, he was not trying to kill her, as he and Sidious wanted her as a disciple. When he trained Grievous, he was able to disarm Grievous easily (but again, he was not trying to kill him)
In RotS, Dooku deflected Anakin and Obi-Wan's duel attack with ease, and then used the Force to throw them both around to seperate them. There was no mention on the DVD of Dooku fighting to his best, only that the actor portraying him was trying his best, and again, Dooku thought Anakin would play a role in the Sith ranks, so, as with Assaj, he was not trying to kill, he was just providing what the Jedi would consider a Trial. As I said before, Anakin did not beat Dooku in a blade on blade duel, he physically overpowered the older man (which is hardly difficult given their respective ages) by grabbing his arms, which immobilized his lightsaber, and then cut his hands off, something Dooku had no way of preventing, so it was a totally chickenshit move on Anakin's part. Dooku on the other hand, had previously cut Anakin's arm off while in the middle of a blade to blade confrontation, and did not have to resort to physical means, so was clearly a superior swordsman.

I completely agree with this. Well written.

In saber skill/force skill Dooku is far better than Anakin. In terms of physical strength Anakin is better. This is because of their respective ages. But the Count was not weak can I point out. Merely not strong enough.
Hahaha chickenshit is such a funny word...

Escape81 Restricted

Lucas:

"Dooku was under the impression that he was just supposed to fight Anakin."

Notice how it doesn't say "pretend to fight". He was simply under the impression that he was supposed to fight Anakin, to see if he can beat him. If he did, Palpatine would wait on attempting to bring Anakin to the Dark Side. However, if Dooku lost, Palpatine would see that Anakin was powerful enough to replace him.

It makes absolutely zero sense for Palpatine to engineer the duel so that Dooku would lose, especially when he is only after power. It would make more sense to simply pit them against each other, and make the decision based off of who would win.

Anakin won.

Anakin's potential to become more powerful than Dooku is simply unquestioned. His potential far exceeded Dooku, but - still - at the time of RotS, he was capable of defeating the Count in a lightsaber duel. To top it off, not only was Anakin a more powerful weapon, but was just as naive and just as suseptible to manipulation as Dooku was.

Palpatine is the only person, other than - perhaps - Yoda, who could be able to judge Count Dooku's abilities as well as Anakin's, and decide who is stronger. Palpatine only wants the stronger apprentice. Lucas said in the commentary that if Anakin lost, Palpatine would continue to use Dooku until Anakin was ready. So, Palpatine has absolutely NO reason to lie or to be biased.

Palpatine stated that Anakin was more powerful. Not that he had the potential to be more powerful, but that he is more powerful. And it would also make zero sense to base the argument off of potential, because as shown against Obi-Wan - potential is useless in a fight. Unfulfilled potential is useless.

The script states that Obi-Wan and Dooku got tired as Anakin got stronger as the duel progressed. So, as the duel progressed (even when Dooku taunted him), Anakin's power began to eclipse Dooku's, allowing him to overpower the Count.

Anakin is more powerful than Count Dooku as of RotS.

Rampant ox Senior Member

Anakin was more powerful - Yes. More skilled - No. Dooku wasnt physically a match for Skywalker. The Count had more skill and knowledge but his strength and arrogance was his downfall.

Darth_Glentract The Truest Sith Lord

His plan for turning young Skywalker to the Dark Side (p.67):

Quite simple, in the end, he thought. Isolate Skywalker, slaughter Kenobi. Beyond that, it would be merely a matter of spinning Skywalker up into enough of a frenzy to break through his Jedi restraint and reveal the infinite vista of Sith power.

Lord Sidious would take it from there.

Escape81 Restricted

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
His plan for turning young Skywalker to the Dark Side (p.67):

Quite simple, in the end, he thought. Isolate Skywalker, slaughter Kenobi. Beyond that, it would be merely a matter of spinning Skywalker up into enough of a frenzy to break through his Jedi restraint and reveal the infinite vista of Sith power.

Lord Sidious would take it from there.

You of all people want to argue the "blasphemed" novelization? Tread lightly, Glentract . . . I could have a field day with you, here.

Pyro Tyrannus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

Dooku beat Mace. Mace beat Sidious. Sidious stalemated Yoda, as did Dooku. There is a pattern there. . .

Escape81 Restricted
Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Dooku beat Mace. Mace beat Sidious. Sidious stalemated Yoda, as did Dooku. There is a pattern there. . .

Are you going to argue with me that Dooku is capable of beating the man who was both his master and the man he feared more than any other being in the galaxy?

That makes absolute sense.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Rampant ox
I completely agree with this. Well written.

Thanks, it took a while, plus SPAG revisions 😉

Originally posted by Rampant ox
In saber skill/force skill Dooku is far better than Anakin. In terms of physical strength Anakin is better. This is because of their respective ages. But the Count was not weak can I point out. Merely not strong enough.

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Hahaha chickenshit is such a funny word...

It is, and describes Anakin's penchant for attacks people have no defence for pretty well 😉