Spiderman and night cralwer vs daredevil and wolverine

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Again, assumption. Why does NC necessarily have to teleport within arms reach of DD? He can just port around him confusing him, and hindering his hyper-sensitive senses. He honestly doesn't even have to lay a finger on him. He can just be a distraction if he wants. Spidey takes out Wolverine and then DD. Or he just socks DD real quick, and then it's both NC and Spidey vs. Wolverine.

DD and Wolvie cannot win this fight. Spidey and Nightcrawler for the win.

Its an assumption on your part my friend. When NC fights an opponent, how many times does he just teleport around them without any sort of attack? You forget that DD has his billy club so his range is increased over 10 feet now.

NC wont get the chance to tp multiple times around DD. Like i said before, DD KNOWS when NC is going to port in BEFORE he does. As soon as NC ports in, he gets a club to his temple. Its not an assumption on my part in saying DD knows when NC is going to port in, its a FACT.

Youre saying Spidey is going to beat Wolvie like its some easy task, but thats surely not the case. Then you say Spidey is just going to sock DD?😕 Yea, like thats gonna happen so easily. Youre the one who is making the big assumptions.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its an assumption on your part my friend. When NC fights an opponent, how many times does he just teleport around them without any sort of attack? You forget that DD has his billy club so his range is increased over 10 feet now.

NC wont get the chance to tp multiple times around DD. Like i said before, DD KNOWS when NC is going to port in BEFORE he does. As soon as NC ports in, he gets a club to his temple. Its not an assumption on my part in saying DD knows when NC is going to port in, its a FACT.

Youre saying Spidey is going to beat Wolvie like its some easy task, but thats surely not the case. Then you say Spidey is just going to sock DD?😕 Yea, like thats gonna happen so easily. Youre the one who is making the big assumptions.

I'm making no such assumptions.

All I'm saying is that NC can or doesn't have to actually attack DD straightforwardly. The brimstone and sulfur smell play bloody havoc on his senses, too.

What I don't get is how DD can know where he's gonna be, since NC's teleports are almost insantanous. That issue where DD predicts NC's teleport, he was able to say a whole, complete sentence in the amount of the time "atmosphere was changing" to alert him. He shouldn't have been able to know it before it came. I mean, NC must not have even teleported yet, and DD still knew what to do.

If Spidey really wanted to and was under his own control (as in NOT when he's mind controlled or enraged over something else, fighting to the best of his ability), he could just deck DD and end it quickly. DD wouldn't have a prayer if if SM really wanted him down.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I'm making no such assumptions.

All I'm saying is that NC can or doesn't have to actually attack DD straightforwardly. The brimstone and sulfur smell play bloody havoc on his senses, too.

What I don't get is how DD can know where he's gonna be, since NC's teleports are almost insantanous. That issue where DD predicts NC's teleport, he was able to say a whole, complete sentence in the amount of the time "atmosphere was changing" to alert him. He shouldn't have been able to know it before it came. I mean, NC must not have even teleported yet, and DD still knew what to do.

If Spidey really wanted to and was under his own control (as in NOT when he's mind controlled or enraged over something else, fighting to the best of his ability), he could just deck DD and end it quickly. DD wouldn't have a prayer if if SM really wanted him down.

You make the assumption that NC would "BAMF" around DD without striking. Especially considering how thats rare in a NC fight.

If DD didnt know when NC was porting in, that may just work. But he does. As son as NC "BAMF'S" in, hes hit.

DD's senses can pick up the slightest change in weather. NC BAMF'ing in is almost instant like you said, so that gives DD a chance to know its coming. DD can sense when the temp charges in degree. Thats pretty instant itself.

In Spidey and DD's first 2 battles agasint each other, Spidey was in his right mind and wanted to beat DD actually. He wasnt mind controlled or enraged at all. He was mad yes, but not to the point where he wasnt thinking straight. Spidey really wanted him down as you say and still couldnt down him as easily as youd hope.

Originally posted by jrodslam
You make the assumption that NC would "BAMF" around DD without striking. Especially considering how thats rare in a NC fight.

If DD didnt know when NC was porting in, that may just work. But he does. As son as NC "BAMF'S" in, hes hit.

DD's senses can pick up the slightest change in weather. NC BAMF'ing in is almost instant like you said, so that gives DD a chance to know its coming. DD can sense when the temp charges in degree. Thats pretty instant itself.

In Spidey and DD's first 2 battles agasint each other, Spidey was in his right mind and wanted to beat DD actually. He wasnt mind controlled or enraged at all. He was mad yes, but not to the point where he wasnt thinking straight. Spidey really wanted him down as you say and still couldnt down him as easily as youd hope.

When were these first two battles? Like, what year(s)? I'm just curious.

And yes, I know all about DD's senses and what they're capable of. But I don't believe he should be able to know when Nightcrawler is coming BEFORE he gets there. I'm all for him knowing when NC is there AS SOON AS HE ports in, but NOT BEFORE.

NC ports to DD. DD strikes. NC ports away again. DD misses. That can happen a lot. NC ports in and strikes the off-balance DD. DD tries to strike back. NC ports.

Notice a trend? If he wanted to, he could just keep porting, hitting sometimes, or just dodging the rest of the time.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
When were these first two battles? Like, what year(s)? I'm just curious.

And yes, I know all about DD's senses and what they're capable of. But I don't believe he should be able to know when Nightcrawler is coming BEFORE he gets there. I'm all for him knowing when NC is there AS SOON AS HE ports in, but NOT BEFORE.

NC ports to DD. DD strikes. NC ports away again. DD misses. That can happen a lot. NC ports in and strikes the off-balance DD. DD tries to strike back. NC ports.

Notice a trend? If he wanted to, he could just keep porting, hitting sometimes, or just dodging the rest of the time.

The first 2 battles happened eary in their careers. Actually, it wasnt the first one exactly. It was actually the 2nd and 3rd fights im reffering to. 60's.

Its NC who gives himself away. Its the dam brimstone from the dimension changing the atmosphere that aletrts DD. That opens juuust before NC actually appears, so DD has the warning.

More like NC ports out. DD throws the club. NC ports in and gets the club to the temple. DD doesnt miss much.

Your version of the fight would work if DD didnt know where and when NC appears. DD's club would already be in air before NC actually ports in lol.

Originally posted by jrodslam
The first 2 battles happened eary in their careers. Actually, it wasnt the first one exactly. It was actually the 2nd and 3rd fights im reffering to. 60's.

Its NC who gives himself away. Its the dam brimstone from the dimension changing the atmosphere that aletrts DD. That opens juuust before NC actually appears, so DD has the warning.

More like NC ports out. DD throws the club. NC ports in and gets the club to the temple. DD doesnt miss much.

Your version of the fight would work if DD didnt know where and when NC appears. DD's club would already be in air before NC actually ports in lol.

That's what I figured. Not to bash DD or anything, but I could beat up 60s Spider-Man. Current Spider-Man (pre-Iron suit) would destroy current DD, even with both well-written.

So, DD throws the club at the exact moment NC ports away, already knowing where he will appear? His radar sense is not precog.

Besides, DD throws his billy club, NC ports away again. The guy dodges bullets this way (which are must faster than a thrown billy club). He ports as the trigger is pulled, even from a pretty close distance. He'd see the club, port away again. DD's just lost his club. There's nothing stopping him from porting around constantly. Hell, NC could probably catch the damn thing. Then port it into DD's head or something.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
That's what I figured. Not to bash DD or anything, but I could beat up 60s Spider-Man. Current Spider-Man (pre-Iron suit) would destroy current DD, even with both well-written.

So, DD throws the club at the exact moment NC ports away, already knowing where he will appear? His radar sense is not precog.

Besides, DD throws his billy club, NC ports away again. The guy dodges bullets this way (which are must faster than a thrown billy club). He ports as the trigger is pulled, even from a pretty close distance. He'd see the club, port away again. DD's just lost his club. There's nothing stopping him from porting around constantly. Hell, NC could probably catch the damn thing. Then port it into DD's head or something.

You make it seem as if 60's DD hasnt changed either. Current Spidey (pre-iron suit) would destroy current DD is all speculation. Both when well written? You highly underestimate DD. Funny how you say hed destroy DD when hes never came close before. Well there was one time where he was close. One out of many.

Because NC's tp is almost instant, when he ports away, hes already in patch to port in. The atmosphere changes and DD knows instnatly where. He throws the club and when NC appears, hes hit the moment he shows up. DD's radar sense is highly close to precog. Highly. Hell, hed know NC was about to port by his heart beat alone.

DD throws his club before NC ports in. How is NC gonna port out again when hes hit immediately hit as he ports in the first time? Yes he dodges bullets that are faster than DD's thrown billy club. HOWEVER the huge difference in that is that Daredevil KNOWS when and where Nightcrawler will appear. Those people fireing bullets at NC cant say the same. You simply cant compare DD's aim to people who dont have senses to be as accurate.

From what I remember Wolverine and Nightcrawler spar all the time in the Danger Room because they are closely matched verses speed and skill.

Originally posted by ThePittman
From what I remember Wolverine and Nightcrawler spar all the time in the Danger Room because they are closely matched verses speed and skill.

What we need is someone to provide us with scans of their fights or sparring matches.

If Iron Fist is doing this to Nightcrawler, Daredevil would wipe the floor with him.

Notice how the brimstone gives Nightcrawler's position away.

Originally posted by jrodslam
You make it seem as if 60's DD hasnt changed either. Current Spidey (pre-iron suit) would destroy current DD is all speculation. Both when well written? You highly underestimate DD. Funny how you say hed destroy DD when hes never came close before. Well there was one time where he was close. One out of many.

Because NC's tp is almost instant, when he ports away, hes already in patch to port in. The atmosphere changes and DD knows instnatly where. He throws the club and when NC appears, hes hit the moment he shows up. DD's radar sense is highly close to precog. Highly. Hell, hed know NC was about to port by his heart beat alone.

DD throws his club before NC ports in. How is NC gonna port out again when hes hit immediately hit as he ports in the first time? Yes he dodges bullets that are faster than DD's thrown billy club. HOWEVER the huge difference in that is that Daredevil KNOWS when and where Nightcrawler will appear. Those people fireing bullets at NC cant say the same. You simply cant compare DD's aim to people who dont have senses to be as accurate.

Okay, I think there may have been a failure to communicate here. I didn't mean to make it sound like current DD has nothing. Because he does. Hell, I say he beats a lot of street levelers. But current Spidey is really just too much for him.

I'm leaving work now, but I'll continue this tomorrow all day long, haha. Later, jrod.

Originally posted by jrodslam
What we need is someone to provide us with scans of their fights or sparring matches.

"the big Dare" was a little match night crawler and wolverine first had that ended in wolverine elbowing a teleporting night crawler in the stomack and night crawler saying if he did not hold back I be dead.

there also the recent issue that is supose to be a past event back when they first started as a team. The issue is giant-sized x-men #4 were night crawler says with out his ability to teleport he could easiliy still hold his own and he makes a bet with wolverine and then wolverine moves his hand so fast that wolverine has two claws around night crawler throte before ngith crawler can react.

there also night crawler 11 were night crawler fights a possesed wolverine and states that if this was non possesed wolverine he would not be able to do any thing, but becuase the demons possesing wolverine don't know how to use his body properly that he is able defeat the possesed wolverine.

There is also night crawler issue I think it either 12 or 13 or possably 15 were night cralwer spar vs Logan and states that he only able to hold his own becuase wolverine is holding back.

There are more matches I just have to look them up

Originally posted by jrodslam
What we need is someone to provide us with scans of their fights or sparring matches.

I think someone posted a fight between the two awhile ago. It was where the entire X-Men line-up was after Wolverine and NC teleported right next to Wolverine. Wolvie sensed it and then knocked NC's ass out.

Originally posted by jrodslam
More like NC ports out. DD throws the club. NC ports in and gets the club to the temple. DD doesnt miss much.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Alternatively he teleports out... to the mansion. Daredevil throws his club, misses because there's nothing to hit. Then a few minutes later he teleports back in with a sword and stabs DD.Hmm the words in my scan contradict the words in yours.

Either way, if NC did go to the mansion and grab a weapon, DD would still know when he was about to show up xmarks.

You scan doesnt really contradict my scans. Why? Cause NC didnt appear to be fighting a foe with Iron Fist's or Daredevil's skills. And secondly, all he appeared to have done was BAMF once and grab someone to safety. Those are 2 totally different instances it seems.

i think DD & Wolverine take this in a long battle. DD pretty much owned Spiderman at least twice i believe and Wolverine beat the Silver Samurai who possesses teleportation abilities. so i think Wolverine would kill Nightcrawler as well. and besides, Spiderman & Nightcrawler never fight to the death anyway.....

Originally posted by Logan's the man
i think DD & Wolverine take this in a long battle. DD pretty much owned Spiderman at least twice i believe and Wolverine beat the Silver Samurai who possesses teleportation abilities. so i think Wolverine would kill Nightcrawler as well. and besides, Spiderman & Nightcrawler never fight to the death anyway.....

This is a hypothetical match. Spidey and NC aren't worried about killing, they're just fightint to the best of their abilities and doing whatever it takes to win.

DD has never beaten Spider-Man without a major plot device in his favor. Either Spidey was mind-controlled, or just enraged to the point of retardation. He wasn't even listening to his spider-sense throughout the fights. DD even admits that he's no match for Spider-Man when he's in his right mind.

I still think it's pretty easy for Nightcrawler to at least keep Wolverine distracted. And by distracted, I mean dropped from several miles high. A few times.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Either way, if NC did go to the mansion and grab a weapon, DD would still know when he was about to show up xmarks.

You scan doesnt really contradict my scans. Why? Cause NC didnt appear to be fighting a foe with Iron Fist's or Daredevil's skills. And secondly, all he appeared to have done was BAMF once and grab someone to safety. Those are 2 totally different instances it seems.

But Nightcrawler had 0.5 seconds to teleport out, teleport in, grab the girl, teleport away again, and teleport in back at a safe distance, and he still had time to spare. You're telling me Wolverine can stop Nightcrawler when he's teleporting this fast? (Remember that Nightcrawler is at his full potential.)

Originally posted by Metalmanx
This is a hypothetical match. Spidey and NC aren't worried about killing, they're just fightint to the best of their abilities and doing whatever it takes to win.

DD has never beaten Spider-Man without a major plot device in his favor. Either Spidey was mind-controlled, or just enraged to the point of retardation. He wasn't even listening to his spider-sense throughout the fights. DD even admits that he's no match for Spider-Man when he's in his right mind.

I don't see much hope for Matt and Logan here. Pete and Kurt have too much going for them, not the least of which is Peter's recent enhancements. I'd have given pre-Other Spidey 7/10 odds over Wolverine. Now, I give him 8-9/10. Even if it somehow became Wolverine and Daredevil vs Spider-Man, I'd still give it to Spidey. DD isn't fast enough to evade SM and one punch is all it will take to lay Horn-Head out. Spidey can easily multi-task that blow with his new Spider-Sense with plenty of attack and evasion game to deal with Wolverine.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
...and below is the quote.

I don't see much hope for Matt and Logan here. Pete and Kurt have too much going for them, not the least of which is Peter's recent enhancements. I'd have given pre-Other Spidey 7/10 odds over Wolverine. Now, I give him 8-9/10. Even if it somehow became Wolverine and Daredevil vs Spider-Man, I'd still give it to Spidey. DD isn't fast enough to evade SM and one punch is all it will take to lay Horn-Head out. Spidey can easily multi-task that blow with his new Spider-Sense with plenty of attack and evasion game to deal with Wolverine.

Exactly. I really couldn't have put that better if I wanted to. Thanks for the scan, I don't have it with me on my work computer.