They didn't say "it's a standoff" because of the droidekas firepower, even padawan Obi-Wan easily deflected that, it was in respons to Obi's "they have shield generators". They couldn't get passed them and more droids were coming.....
We see Saesse Tiin deflect a room full of fire with ease, much, much more than Ki-Adi faced. Mace said himself in a book that no jedi could deflect 14 blaster bolts, in CW they block like 20 at once....
Originally posted by kamikz
They didn't say "it's a standoff" because of the droidekas firepower, even padawan Obi-Wan easily deflected that, it was in respons to Obi's "they have shield generators". They couldn't get passed them and more droids were coming.....
Originally posted by kamikz
We see Saesse Tiin deflect a room full of fire with ease, much, much more than Ki-Adi faced.
Originally posted by kamikz
Mace said himself in a book that no jedi could deflect 14 blaster bolts, in CW they block like 20 at once....
Originally posted by Darth Vious
that's a possibility, I hadn't considered the droideka's shield generators...Who was Saesse Tiin facing?
Battle droids.
In AotC, when Obi-Wan was shown around the cloning facility, it was clearly said that the Clones were "far superior to droids..."In a book??!! Woweeee!!!! The Dooku's skill thread has firmly established that books are little more than published fanfiction compared to the canon of movies and their novelizations. CW is considered canon, so Seassee's action would overrule that book (and the fact Ki-Adi was facing clones means he was facing more competent opponents than Saesse)
Well that's the case....
He was facing battledroids and SBD, and they were firing. It doesn't matter if they are worse (though it is said that the battle droids had very high accuracy, at least SBD), when a whole corridor is filled with blaster fire you are not likley to parry it easily.... Besides, those who said that they were highly superior didn't know about the new droids in the Confederacy, and maybe they ment also that the clones weren't controlled by a computer and could think for themselfs....
No, you haven't established proof, not in that thread either...
Originally posted by kamikz
He was facing battledroids and SBD, and they were firing. It doesn't matter if they are worse (though it is said that the battle droids had very high accuracy, at least SBD), when a whole corridor is filled with blaster fire you are not likley to parry it easily.... Besides, those who said that they were highly superior didn't know about the new droids in the Confederacy, and maybe they ment also that the clones weren't controlled by a computer and could think for themselfs....
Originally posted by kamikz
No, you haven't established proof, not in that thread either...
Originally posted by Darth Vious
SBD?? SOrry, I don't understand that...
How do you know that the Kaminoans didn't know about the new droids? The order ultimately had Sith backing, and they knew about the ICS battledroids, so it would make sense that the clones were trained to overcome them (which they clearly did in many battles in RotS) There is no 'maybe', I forget which Kaminoan said it, but they clearly said "Clones are far superior to droids." which settles the debate.You might want to re-check that thread, as I wasn't the one who posted about the level of canon, but it clearly says, that EU books are not canon. Novelization books are canon (but only where they do not contradict the films) and I've already shown what arguing that Lucas' intentions outweighing the films equals, so yes, proof has been established.
Super battle droid. Did the Kaminoans really know about that? And my word still stands that they might only have ment that. Besides, there were only like 5 clones that faced Ki-Adi (or that at least could shoot) whilst there was a small corridor filled with droids who fired at Saeese. It should be impossible for a jedi, at least of his calibur. And the same with those two jedi, one was a padawan and one was a master. The padawan deflected a ridicilous amount of blaster bolts at once, and moved her hand sick fast. Mace Windu himself could not deflect the shots into the SBD's easily on Geonosis, and that was one, and that was not rapid fire.... (At least not near as fast as those droids).
Show me the exact quote from that thread cause I can't find it....
Originally posted by kamikz
Super battle droid. Did the Kaminoans really know about that?
Originally posted by kamikz
And my word still stands that they might only have ment that.
Originally posted by kamikz
Besides, there were only like 5 clones that faced Ki-Adi (or that at least could shoot) whilst there was a small corridor filled with droids who fired at Saeese.
Originally posted by kamikz
I would say a clone trooper. Unlike the droid, a clone trooper can think for himself, make plans and stuff. I think he is a better warrior to cause they have been professionally trained, the droids are just armed with blasters and sent out to kill....
Originally posted by kamikz
And the same with those two jedi, one was a padawan and one was a master. The padawan deflected a ridicilous amount of blaster bolts at once, and moved her hand sick fast.
Originally posted by kamikz
Mace Windu himself could not deflect the shots into the SBD's easily on Geonosis, and that was one, and that was not rapid fire.... (At least not near as fast as those droids).
Originally posted by kamikz
Show me the exact quote from that thread cause I can't find it....
Originally posted by Jam-Jul_Lison
For information on what is cannon check this out. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f38/t20461.htmla similer post here.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f5/t20463.htmlin them it defines what is cannon. i will now post part of the cannon definition below. Click on the links if you want to read the whole thing.
"Lucasfilm Canon Policy: "Canon includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers."
This affirms the idea that only the things that GL himself directly created can count for canon. The rules that follow are awkward, but basically the films are the 'primary' canon and the books and others are 'secondary', in that you assume what they say is true unless they are contradicted by the films (like Owen Lars being Obi-Wan's brother, for example)."
From the way it looks above. The Movies are higher cannon then the rest. In the movies Anakin had to grab Dooku's arm to win. Nothing in that entire battle proves Anakin was a better duelest then Dooku and nothing proves Anakin has better force control then Dooku. All it proves was Anakin won the fight by overpowering Dooku who was at the very least 60 years old. The movies overrule Lucas's words. Case closed. That is part of the rules on these forums. I realy think the staff needs to post a similer set of rules on the EU forum to prevent this. Though to be honest these Dooku threads do not belong here anyway.
Originally posted by Darth Vious
Gotcha. As I said, the order for the clones was placed (ultimately) at the Sith's request. The Sith (ultimately) were in controll of the CIS droid forces, so it would make sense that they would request the clones be skilled enough to take down SBDs for when they're both deployed together. To be honest, SBDs really aren't 'all that'. In RotS, during The Duel, Obi-Wan runs right up to one firing point blank at him, isn't hit once, and then proceeds to slice it to pieces.It doesn't, because that was just your opinion. The Kaminoan said that clones were superior to droids. It doesn't matter if they meant for one reason or a dozen reasons, they said that they were superior, and that is from the highest canon source.
As I pointed out, the number is irrelevent as the clones were superior to droids, so a handfull of clones is still a harder target than a load of droids. Your own comment here:
said that clones are superior to droids, so don't try and change your mind and argue that droids are better just so you can try and argue with me, because that's just pathetic.
Her? Zett Jukassa is a male... He was portrayed by Lucas' son, Jet... It doesn't matter how many blaster bolts he deflected. He was able to do so for a short period of time, but was ultimately overwhelemed and shot down. The rest of the Jedi didn't even deflect any blaster bolts. (apart from Ki-Adi)
He had no trouble with the SBDs on either Geonosis or Dantooine. In AotC, hedeflected the shots with no trouble at all, it was Jango's flamethrower that made him jump over the railing and even then, he was still able to deflect the SBDs shots...
Here it is:
[Edited to add exterior quote]
The whole corridor was filled with fire, would you belive that just because a clone is more skilled he can kill a jedi. They overwhealmed Ki-Adi, they didn't use skill....
That is the same for the jedi padawan who deflected more than Windu did, and Windu never even got to deflect the shots back at the droid. I know Jango chased him away, but he was still not able to deflect a single shot onto the droid itself.
WTF, I'm not saying that a droid is superior, but you made it seem like droids suck, clones own. This is not the case....
I'm not talking about Zett, I'm talking about a jedi during the clone wars. Zett was in the way for many clones, not many could fire at him anyway....
That does not say that the cartoons is more canon. And IF they were, there are still parts in the cartoons that are ridicilous, they overpower people.
Can Mace punch through durasteel but not human flesh?
Can Yoda send back armies that are walking out a ship, then crash the ship in another? (Those ships contain over 1000 of battledroids, over 200 tanks, and over 80 transport ships, which themselfs are stocking 100 droids) when he can barley lift a tube in AOTC? This clearly contradicts the movie...
Can Yoda lift an army of droidekas when Obi-Wan and Anakin can't lift 2?
Can Mace push away armies of SBD alone when he couldn't even do near the same when they were in Geonosis?
People are moving faster, are stronger, and ridicilousley powerful. Assaj lifting a pillar the size of the tube in AOTC with ease, Anakin pushing it back with more ease. Please....
Originally posted by kamikz
The whole corridor was filled with fire, would you belive that just because a clone is more skilled he can kill a jedi. They overwhealmed Ki-Adi, they didn't use skill....
Originally posted by kamikz
WTF, I'm not saying that a droid is superior, but you made it seem like droids suck, clones own. This is not the case....
Originally posted by kamikz
I'm not talking about Zett, I'm talking about a jedi during the clone wars. Zett was in the way for many clones, not many could fire at him anyway....
Originally posted by Darth Vious
Didn't use skill? Aiming a weapon to hit a target involves both practice and skill. They overwhelmed Ki-Adi, but used their skills in order to do so.??? I posted a comment you made where you said that clones were superior to droids! Don't try and change your statement now, I've quoted it already, and if I have to, I'll quote it again. Also, I have not 'made' anything 'seem' like anything. I have just stated the facts as expressed or shown in the movies. None of that is my own personal opinion (although I do agree with them), they are just facts.
What Jedi were you talking about then? Seeing as I was refering to the execution of Order 66 where only Ki-Adi and Zett defended themselves (unsuccessfully) against the Clones, I don't know why you've mentioned another Jedi from CW...
They overwhealmed him, you can see he can't deflect because it is to much for him. There was about twice as many shots coming in at Saeese and that jedi. (It's in the CW, the one who just created her lightsaber).
No, there I said the clones where superior, and that is true. But to ME you made it seem like droids have no skills what-so-ever compared to the clones. Droids had exceptional aim and accuracy, not more so than the clones, but accurate nontheless. I'm not trying to change anything.
Originally posted by kamikz
That does not say that the cartoons is more canon.
Originally posted by kamikz
there are still parts in the cartoons that are ridicilous, they overpower people.
Originally posted by kamikz
Can Mace punch through durasteel but not human flesh?
Can Yoda send back armies that are walking out a ship, then crash the ship in another? (Those ships contain over 1000 of battledroids, over 200 tanks, and over 80 transport ships, which themselfs are stocking 100 droids) when he can barley lift a tube in AOTC? This clearly contradicts the movie...
Can Yoda lift an army of droidekas when Obi-Wan and Anakin can't lift 2?
Can Mace push away armies of SBD alone when he couldn't even do near the same when they were in Geonosis?People are moving faster, are stronger, and ridicilousley powerful. Assaj lifting a pillar the size of the tube in AOTC with ease, Anakin pushing it back with more ease. Please....
Originally posted by kamikz
They overwhealmed him, you can see he can't deflect because it is to much for him. There was about twice as many shots coming in at Saeese and that jedi. (It's in the CW, the one who just created her lightsaber).
Originally posted by kamikz
No, there I said the clones where superior, and that is true. But to ME you made it seem like droids have no skills what-so-ever compared to the clones. Droids had exceptional aim and accuracy, not more so than the clones, but accurate nontheless. I'm not trying to change anything.
Originally posted by Darth Vious
I never said he defended himself successfully, I said he was one of the only Jedi to actually defend himself from the Clones. Also, Barriss was a padawan, deflecting against droids, Ki-Adi was a Master (and Council member) deflecting against clones (who are better than droids)I never made any such comment, and if you read what I wrote as that, then that is your own faul, not mine. All I pointed out, was that SBDs 'aren't all that' (which they clearly are not)
I never said you said he defended himself succeesfully, I said that he was overwhealmed because there were to many clones. (About 5). If there was one he would easily have done it. This shows that even if they have skill it was the number that was fatal to Ki-Adi, there were about 3 or 4 TIMES the blaster bolts coming in at Saeese and that padawan. If they can parry it in the CW, but Ki-Adi can't do near the same in ROTS, then I think it's the CW that is wrong...
Aren't all what? And that doesn't really matter ^
Originally posted by kamikz
I never said you said he defended himself succeesfully, I said that he was overwhealmed because there were to many clones. (About 5). If there was one he would easily have done it. This shows that even if they have skill it was the number that was fatal to Ki-Adi, there were about 3 or 4 TIMES the blaster bolts coming in at Saeese and that padawan. If they can parry it in the CW, but Ki-Adi can't do near the same in ROTS, then I think it's the CW that is wrong...
Originally posted by kamikz
Aren't all what?
Originally posted by Darth Vious
Okay, this is starting to get tedious as you are just backtracking and retracting your previous comments.
The amount of blaster bolts coming at Saesse and Barriss were from droids. Even if there were more blaster bolts, they are less accurate than the clones are. The clones need less blaster bolts to achieve the same result as a droid. That is the difference. It doesn't matter if one was done in CW and the other was done in RotS, because the source of the blaster bolts was differentIt's an American figure of speech. If something is good, then it is considered to 'be all that'. If something is not as good (particularly when being compared to something that is good) then it is said to be 'not all that' or, to use a contraction when talking about multiple things, it becomes they (aren't = are not) 'aren't all that'.
When I look on that, I don't see a single shot missing (what was her name? Bariss?) her, she deflects them all. So why exactly would it be different, when the droids aren't missing at all?
And what makes you say that?
Originally posted by kamikz
When I look on that, I don't see a single shot missing (what was her name? Bariss?) her, she deflects them all. So why exactly would it be different, when the droids aren't missing at all?And what makes you say that?
How do you come to the conclusion that just because a clone is superior to a droid they are TWICE as good? I doubt a clone cold take 2 SBD's. And I know that a clone trooper is superior to a SBD, but not by very much. And having about 20 droids firing blaster bolts in a small corridor against you is going to be harder to parry than deflecting the bolts of 6 clones. Besides, the Kaminoans didn't say what droid, they only said droids. Does that mean that one Clone is suprior to a droideka as well? Of course not. If she meant droids in general, than the point about Clone's being superior could mean because they have a brain for themselfs and is not controlled by a computer. The clones may be better, but as I said, not by very much, and this goes for SBD and BD's only....
Originally posted by kamikz
How do you come to the conclusion that just because a clone is superior to a droid they are TWICE as good?
Originally posted by kamikz
Besides, the Kaminoans didn't say what droid, they only said droids.