CW Dooku Vs CW Grievous · Star Wars Versus Forum

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Ok, so what makes a clone trooper superior to a droideka, a (giant) crab droid, IG droids, B-3 Ultra droids, Magna Guards and the Spelunker probe droid? I would say the only thing that a clone trooper has against these kinds of droids is a brain, more traning, not controlled by a computer.....

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
Ok, so what makes a clone trooper superior to a droideka, a (giant) crab droid, IG droids, B-3 Ultra droids, Magna Guards and the Spelunker probe droid? I would say the only thing that a clone trooper has against these kinds of droids is a brain, more traning, not controlled by a computer.....

It doesn't matter what makes a clone trooper superior. The fact is, that they simply are.

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

So you mean a clone could beat all those in a 1 on 1?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
So you mean a clone could beat all those in a 1 on 1?

I never said that. Re read what I wrote.

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

"It doesn't matter what makes a clone trooper superior. The fact is, that they simply are."

I don't get it. What does this answere? If they are not superior in fighting abilities then why should it matter?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
I don't get it. What does this answere? If they are not superior in fighting abilities then why should it matter?

You asked what made the Clones superior. I simply pointed out that it does not matter what makes the Clones superior, because it has already been said that they are superior. If someone tells you they are married, are you going to ask them what proves that they are married?

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

But you can't say what makes them surperior. The film does not state what makes them superior, they could mean that which I posted above. If you can't tell me what makes them better than what makes you so sure that it is battle?
And that is not comparable.....

Lord Kadaj LOOK AT SIG.

Mace pwned Grevious with one move(Force Crush), Im pretty sure, Dooku can do same.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
But you can't say what makes them surperior. The film does not state what makes them superior, they could mean that which I posted above. If you can't tell me what makes them better than what makes you so sure that it is battle?
And that is not comparable.....

Just because I can't tell you what makes them superior, that does not mean that they aren't. I can't tell you how gravity works, but it does. The Kaminoans said that the clones were superior to the droids, so that's that, they are superior, the reason is irrelevent. Also, as I said above, you have already said in another thread that clones are superior to droids, so why are you trying to argue that the are not on this one? If it's just to engage me in an arguement, please don't bother. I'd be quite happy to discuss things without having to argue the point.

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

Wait; so you listen to the Kaminoas but when Dooku said that Grievous couldn't beat the best of the Jedi you ignore that. You call the books non canon, why?

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Just because I can't tell you what makes them superior, that does not mean that they aren't. I can't tell you how gravity works, but it does. The Kaminoans said that the clones were superior to the droids, so that's that, they are superior, the reason is irrelevent. Also, as I said above, you have already said in another thread that clones are superior to droids, so why are you trying to argue that the are not on this one? If it's just to engage me in an arguement, please don't bother. I'd be quite happy to discuss things without having to argue the point.

No, if you can't say WHAT makes them superior, I doubt that they must be in combat, you cannot know for sure. And no, I said they are probably above a battle droid and probably a SBD, but people can change their minds to, or do you control what I think now?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Wait; so you listen to the Kaminoas but when Dooku said that Grievous couldn't beat the best of the Jedi you ignore that.

The Kaminoan's made the comment on film. Dooku's comment was made in LOE, which is little more than published fan fiction, because CW takes canon precedent over the events as it is a moving image rather than a book. Movies are higher canon than the EU books, which is why I accept the Kaminoan's comment but ignore the one made by Dooku.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
You call the books non canon, why?

Because EU books are not canon. It's as simple as that. Novelizations are considered canon, but a lower canon than the movie. The movie is the highest source, so that is what I (and the rules of this forum) take as accurate.
[Edit for SPAG]

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by kamikz
No, if you can't say WHAT makes them superior, I doubt that they must be in combat, you cannot know for sure.

I don't have to say why they're superior. It was stated on film that they are superior, so that makes it an official fact, unless you feel that the movies are not official enough?

Originally posted by kamikz
but people can change their minds to, or do you control what I think now?

Don't use yourself as a strawman, you'll just get set on fire. The comments made in the movie of AotC were very clear about the clones
"Clones are far superior to droids"
"They are totally obedient, following any order without question."
When Padme and the Clone fell from the carrier, his first reaction was to get back to the forward command post. She then gave him an order to get troops and a transport, which changed his mind.

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

Originally posted by Darth Vious
The Kaminoan's made the comment on film Dooku's comment was made in LOE, which is little more than published fan fiction, because CW takes canon precedent over it as a moving image rather than a book.
Because EU books are not canon. It's as simple as that. Novelizations are considered canon, but a lower canon than the movie. The movie is the highest source, to that is what I (and the rules of this forum) take as accurate.

Okay so that means the CW is non canon.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Okay so that means the CW is non canon.

No it doesn't. As I said, CW is a moving image, so it is higher canon than the EU. CW directly leads into the events of RotS and explains why the characters are the way they are. Does LOE explain why Anakin's artificial hand was different in RotS to AotC? CW does...
There have been comments in other threads that CW is canon.

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

Originally posted by Darth Vious
No it doesn't. As I said, CW is a moving image, so it is higher canon than the EU. CW directly leads into the events of RotS and explains why the characters are the way they are. Does LOE explain why Anakin's artificial hand was different in RotS to AotC? CW does...
There have been comments in other threads that CW is canon.

Yes. It also explains that Dooku tells Grievous that he cannot defeat top Jedi such as Mace, Yoda, and Obi-Wan in a straight up battle. LOE is the offical prequel to the movie.

Plus unlike the CW it doesn't have overpowered characters that would make their movie counter parts look like little kids.

And even in the CW micro-series Dooku said that Grievous cannot defeat the best of the Jedi straight up.

Dooku would WTFpwn Grievous.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Yes.

And that explanation is?

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
LOE is the offical prequel to the movie.

Which Lucas allowed the Clone Wars cartoons to overrule. It's been agreed that the CW are accepted as Canon on the forum, and it's also accepted that any books that are not direct novelizations are not lesser canon, but EU. Even lesser canon can overrule EU, whichmeans that the CW version of events outweighs LOE's

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Plus unlike the CW it doesn't have overpowered characters that would make their movie counter parts look like little kids.

CW showed the true potential of Jedi abilities. Do you think that the Battle of Dantooine would have looked good filmed live action? With Sam Jackson moving so fast he was a blur, or jumping incredible distances, or do you think it would look stupid?
The cartoon was able to do things that simply wouldn't look good on film, that doesn't make the character's overpowered. And the fact that the RotS plotline did not call for the characters to use the same abilities as in the CW does not mean that they no longer had those abilities.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
And even in the CW micro-series Dooku said that Grievous cannot defeat the best of the Jedi straight up.

No, he said that he had to have certain elements in his favor, which is true of any fight.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Dooku would WTFpwn Grievous.

He most certainly would not. This would certainly be a close battle. Personally, I don't think Dooku would be fast enough to block all of Grievous' 4 sabers our avoid his spinning attacks. Even on the offchance that the Count was able to win (through his greater knowledge and experience) it certainly would not be an easy victory, let alone easy enough to count as WTFpwnage...

kamikz A.I.M Mercenary

No, the CW does overpower. How can it show "true potential" when the films show that they aren't this good? Has Lucas said himself that it would look stupid if he made them that good?
Besides, does it look stupid when Yoda lifts that tube in AOTC? No. Is it then true that Assaj ripped out and tossed one of those with ease when Yoda had to struggle? Overpowered as hell. You see, not only the speed is overpowered but their force abilities as well, and we've seen people in the movies utalize such powers and it does NOT look stupid....

I mean, in the ROTJ Luke vs Dooku you talk about how the movies should overrule the other sources, but when it comes to the CW it overrules the movies way of fighting????

Sin Harvest Sonic Speed

Originally posted by kamikz
No, the CW does overpower. How can it show "true potential" when the films show that they aren't this good? Has Lucas said himself that it would look stupid if he made them that good?
Besides, does it look stupid when Yoda lifts that tube in AOTC? No. Is it then true that Assaj ripped out and tossed one of those with ease when Yoda had to struggle? Overpowered as hell. You see, not only the speed is overpowered but their force abilities as well, and we've seen people in the movies utalize such powers and it does NOT look stupid....
I mean, in the ROTJ Luke vs Dooku you talk about how the movies should overrule the other sources, but when it comes to the CW it overrules the movies way of fighting????

Don't forget that Yoda was throwing around Cruisers with ease in CW and yet he had to dodge the Senate Pods because he couldn't stop them, expect one.

Not to mention Anakin is shown jumping hundreds of feet in the air and yet he was in saber length when he jumped over Obi-Wan.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Don't forget that Yoda was throwing around Cruisers with ease in CW and yet he had to dodge the Senate Pods because he couldn't stop them, expect one.

No. Yoda was dodging the Senate Pods because he was still trying to get to Palpatine with his lightsaber (evidence is that he kept re-igniting the saber, so he clearly intended to use it) not because he couldn't stop them. When he wanted to stop one, he did it with ease.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Not to mention Anakin is shown jumping hundreds of feet in the air and yet he was in saber length when he jumped over Obi-Wan.

?? Which jump are you refering to? The one in AotC? Look at the jump he made during the duel on Mustafar when he leapt off the gantry to the hover droid... That was way more than 'saber length'. As I said before, just because the plot of RotS did not require characters to use the abilities they had in CW, that does not mean that they no longer had those abilities.