CW Dooku and CW Grievous vs Rots Obi-Wan and Rots Anakin

Started by Razielim6 pages
Razielim KGB

This is RotS Anakin, actually. Last time he charged towards Dooku, Dooku got sent flying several meters back and, one minute later, was left without a head.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
except Anakin is ALREADY a match for Dooku and he realizes it.
Anakin won his fight with Dooku through luck, not skill, there is nothing to suggest that he would be able to do so again.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Mace believed Obi-wan to be capable of taking Grievous at any time.

I don't deny that Obi-Wan was the best choice of the Jedi to confront Grievous, Mace was correct about that. However, Mace also knew that he had damaged Grievous (He would have seen the result of his Force Crush with his own eyes) As pointed out already, Obi-Wan barely beat Grievous when Grievous was damaged. If Grievous was not damaged, and fighting as he was when he took on Ki-Adi, Shaak Ti, Aayla and the other Jedi, then I think his speed would have overcome Obi-Wan's defences with little difficulty.

Escape81 Restricted

Actually, Obi-Wan didn't have that much trouble with General Grievous in a lightsaber fight. Hell, it lasted like 30 seconds . . . with Obi-Wan eventually removing the General's two lightsaber hands and Force pushing him into a wall.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Escape81
Actually, Obi-Wan didn't have that much trouble with General Grievous in a lightsaber fight. Hell, it lasted like 30 seconds . . . with Obi-Wan eventually removing the General's two lightsaber hands and Force pushing him into a wall.

The novelization of RotS said that when Grievous' attack speed reached a certain speed, it overcame Obi-Wan's ability to actively block. He let the first saber passed his guard in order to sever the lightsaber. In the movie, he severed the hand instead of the saber, but the technique was still the same. Essentially, the first hand, he made Grievous sever himself. (which Grievous was totally surprized about) The second hand was done intentionally by Obi-Wan.
The speed of the saber rotations in RotS is audibly slower than in CW (and Grievous tends to be hunched over in RotS, rather than standing tall as he did in CW. Standing tall in RotS triggered another spasm of coughing) so if that slower speed was still able to overcome Obi-Wan's defence (even though he was able to use it as an advantage) then the much faster speed from CW would most likely overcome his defence too fast for him to use as an advantage.
As for the Force push, he was right up close to Obi-Wan when that happened, and in CW, he showed the ability to dodge Force blasts when he had sufficient space between him and the Jedi.

Escape81 Restricted

No, I don't deny that Obi-Wan would have trouble with Grievous as of CW - but not of RotS. The only time Obi-Wan was in real danger was when he engaged Grievous in melee combat. Then he royally got his ass kicked. But as for saber combat? Nah.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Escape81
No, I don't deny that Obi-Wan would have trouble with Grievous as of CW - but not of RotS.

But the listing is for CW Grievous, not RotS Grievous.

Originally posted by Escape81
The only time Obi-Wan was in real danger was when he engaged Grievous in melee combat. Then he royally got his ass kicked. But as for saber combat? Nah.

The novelisation still states that Grievous was able to speed up the rotation of his sabers (or more accurately their strike rate) to a point where Obi-Wan could not actively block his sabers and they broke through his defence. On the DVD, it is possible to see that that is how Grievous' first hand is severed. Hand to hand agaisnt Grievous, it's no wonder that Grievous was the stronger, he did afterall have droid strength, compared to Obi-Wan's flesh and blood. Back to the sabers though, I think had Grievous not been damaged by Mace's Force crush, and able to a) rotate his sabers as fast as he did in CW b) toss his sabers from hand to foot and duel while performing handstands as he did in CW and c) use his feet to whip someone face first into the floor as he did in CW, then even Obi-Wan (who is my favorite character) would be unable to defend against such overwhelming abilities.

Pyro Tyrannus "Nerd maker funner of-er"
Originally posted by Escape81
No, I don't deny that Obi-Wan would have trouble with Grievous as of CW - but not of RotS. The only time Obi-Wan was in real danger was when he engaged Grievous in melee combat. Then he royally got his ass kicked. But as for saber combat? Nah.

Amen to that. I actually thought Grievous posed more of a threat to Kenobi with only two arms...

Lightsnake Senior Member

Mace knew Obi-wan had the best chance of beating Grievous even in a damaged state and Obi-wan walked over Grievous in melee combat.

And what luck with Dooku? Oh that's right...he outmuscled and outdueled him. Nice

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Mace knew Obi-wan had the best chance of beating Grievous even in a damaged state

Yes. And in CW, Grievous was not damaged. The thread title says CW Grievous, not RotS Grievous. First you thought Luke was shot in his organic hand, now you can't read that... Might be time for an eye test.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And what luck with Dooku? Oh that's right...he outmuscled and outdueled him. Nice

He didn't outduel him, he never cut Dooku's hands off while they were duelling. He only outmuscled him, and that was a case of luck (aka plot necessity)

Lightsnake Senior Member

No, actually Grievous was damaged from moment one. Mace just made it worse. And Mace thought Obi-wan could take Grievous period. And Luke's shot in his organic hand, watch rOTJ again

Oooh, sorry, nope, outmuscling a guy is being 'better' than him...it's using your advantage to his disadvantage. It's smart fighting. Can your mind grasp these concepts?

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, actually Grievous was damaged from moment one. Mace just made it worse.

According to what?
Name your source. I dare you.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And Luke's shot in his organic hand, watch rOTJ again

Have you watched RotJ again? Are you ready to admit that you are wrong?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oooh, sorry, nope, outmuscling a guy is being 'better' than him...

No it's not. Not when you're supposed to be duelling. You have a hard time accepting what that mean.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's smart fighting. Can your mind grasp these concepts?

'Smart fighting'??!! I've been studying fencing and martial arts longer than you've been alive. Can your mind not grasp that concept? You do not (and never will) know more about fencing or martial arts than I do.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Unknown Soldier: The story of General Grievous.

*Watches ROTJ* Hand has flesh on it, Luke cries in pain...nope, organic

And sorry, when killing a man you don't fight fair. It has nothing to do with fencing or dueling, ikt has everything to do with winning or killing. anakin won because he was better and used what he had to counter Dooku's disadvantages. This makes him better

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Unknown Soldier: The story of General Grievous.

An EU source. Non Canon. Try again.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
*Watches ROTJ* Hand has flesh on it, Luke cries in pain...nope, organic

I don't think you understand. I suggest you read my answers to your questions before you carry on embarrassing yourself. Luke's artificial hand was covered in synthetic flesh.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And sorry, when killing a man you don't fight fair.

And how many fights to the death have you been in? Do you not understand that I know more about fencing and martial arts than you ever will?

Dooku was an arrogant elitist. He duelled with a saber, not physical strength, and expected Anakin to do the same.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Well whoopie freaking doo for Dooku! Ever see Raiders of the lost Ark? I'm sure sword boy expected Indy to fight him hand to hand or sword to sword...instead Indy blew him away. Get over it: Fights aren't fair and if you engage a real, genuine swordfight expecting it to be, you're ****ed

Mace busting Grievous's lungs is non canon then. Hypocritical garbage from you again.

Pyro Tyrannus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Well whoopie freaking doo for Dooku! Ever see Raiders of the lost Ark? I'm sure sword boy expected Indy to fight him hand to hand or sword to sword...instead Indy blew him away. Get over it: Fights aren't fair and if you engage a real, genuine swordfight expecting it to be, you're ****ed

Mace busting Grievous's lungs is non canon then. Hypocritical garbage from you again.

I musty agree with WhiteSnake here. Dooku wasn't being very fair choking Kenobi and kicking aside Skywalker (which was very cool). The fact is that Anakin caught Tyranus in a moment of vulnerability. Were it not for his arrogance the Count would've eventually carried out his plans.

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Well whoopie freaking doo for Dooku! Ever see Raiders of the lost Ark? I'm sure sword boy expected Indy to fight him hand to hand or sword to sword...instead Indy blew him away.

And this has what to do with Star Wars?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Fights aren't fair and if you engage a real, genuine swordfight expecting it to be, you're ****ed

And you've been in how many real, genuine swordfights to the death? You've been studying fencing for how long was it again? When're you going to get it through your skull that I know more about fencing than you ever will?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Mace busting Grievous's lungs is non canon then. Hypocritical garbage from you again.

Clone Wars is canon, and so are the events that took place during them, so the only garbage, is what you're typing.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Point is: In real fights, there aren't rules.

and fencing is a controlled sport...how many true, actual sword fights have you been in?

Clone Wars isn't canon, no more than Obsession or Labyrinth of Evil. Sorry

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Point is: In real fights, there aren't rules.

There always rules, even if they are unspoken ones.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
and fencing is a controlled sport...how many true, actual sword fights have you been in?

I've never been in a single actual sword fight, because this isn't the Middle Ages, and people don't carry swords around with them on a day to day basis. I have however been in a number of actual fights, one being where a group of chavs made the mistake of thinking they could mug me. One can't use his arm anymore, and the other still walks with a limp. How many people have you permantly maimed?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Clone Wars isn't canon, no more than Obsession or Labyrinth of Evil. Sorry

Sorry, but Clone Wars is canon. That has already been stated and accepted on this forum, reason being, that it is closer to a movie than a book or comic (it shows exactly what is going on, not requiring a reader's imagination) Also, the events in CW lead directly into the events of RotS, and in the commentary for CW, one of the artists says that RotS is 'how his cartoon finishes'.
I haven't read LOE, but does it explain in it why Anakin's artificial arm and hand are different in RotS to AotC? CW does.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Give me a break...name ONE rule in a true, honest fight to the death...

No duels to the death? Ok, then..and didn't you give them a chance to defend themselves? You went for his arm? Cowardly. Sorry, but noone follows a dueling code in real fights

Find me one place of LFL calling Clone Wars G-canon. Wait! You can't

Darth Vious Restricted

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No duels to the death? Ok, then..and didn't you give them a chance to defend themselves? You went for his arm? Cowardly. Sorry, but noone follows a dueling code in real fights

Re read what I wrote. I did not say it was a duel. It was a hand oto hand fight that occured when a group of chavs tried to mug me. The only cowards, where the chavs for thinking four on one was fair odds. Two of them learned a permanant lesson in manners, the other two ran off.

Also, you still haven't grasped the fact that I know more about the subject than you do. Stop embarassing yourself

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Find me one place of LFL calling Clone Wars G-canon. Wait! You can't

It's accepted as canon on this forum, so that's good enough for me, and it'll be good enough for you. Answer the question I asked about LOE and Anakin's arm.