Originally posted by GM Nebaris
1. Schien and Djem So are virtually the same form. the nature behind the forms is exactly the same. And Schien counters Makashi because it overwhelms the Makashi user with offence, which is precisely why 'patience' wouldn't help Luke at all which was the point I was trying to make.And not that this is part of the debate, but just to quickly prove yourself as a debater because quite frankly I think you suck, why don't you explain why Djem So counters Makashi.
2. Luke has displayed very bad use of blaster deflection, namely when he is shot in the hand by one of jabba's thugs which leads me to believe that he would get owned by Dooku's lightning.
And I could care less about your opinion.You haven't even been here that long,so don't presume to judge me,atleast I don't go around saying Sion can use Force Storm,but have no proof to back it up.Shows how good at debating YOU are.
3.Hello?The guy comes up RIGHT BEHIND HIM!Of course he wouldn't be able to deflect it!Wherein Dooku, is Luke's main goal,and he wouldn't let Dooku just Force Lightning him,he would block it with his saber.
1. Mace clearly used aspects of Soresu and Schien (this was confirmed) against Sidious...
And again, you fail to realise how patience would not be a good thing for luke in a duel with a Makashi user, and it's probably because you are unable to explain how Schien/Djem So as a form counter Makashi.
The reason Djem So is so effective against Makashi is because the user used speed and power to overwhelm their opponents. A Makashi user focuses on precision and outdueling their opponent (well it is the saber form bred for dueling), however the user needs extreme concentration to do this effectively. However, the overwhelming nature of Djem So makes sure that the Makashi user would not be able to maintain enough concentration to fight effectively, and thus counters it.
However if luke were to employ the passive nature of Soresu('patience'😉 into his dueling, it would negate the aspect of Djem So which is so effective against Makashi. You have been officially pwned, Noob.
3. It shows that Luke either has poor reflexes or weakness in the force at the time of ROTJ; reflexes are vital in blocking force lightning; strength in the force and reflexes basically go hand in hand.
Originally posted by GM NebarisNo.The novel CLEARLY said he used Vaapad against Sidious,I have the nvoel right here.Don't lie,good debaters don't lie.
1. Mace clearly used aspects of Soresu and Schien (this was confirmed) against Sidious...
And again, you fail to realise how patience would not be a good thing for luke in a duel with a Makashi user, and it's probably because you are unable to explain how Schien/Djem So as a form counter Makashi.Hello?Did you read my post?And ,again,you just answered your own question
\l/
The reason Djem So is so effective against Makashi is because the user used speed and power to overwhelm their opponents. A Makashi user focuses on precision and outdueling their opponent (well it is the saber form bred for dueling), however the user needs extreme concentration to do this effectively. However, the overwhelming nature of Djem So makes sure that the Makashi user would not be able to maintain enough concentration to fight effectively, and thus counters it.There you go.
However if luke were to employ the passive nature of Soresu('patience'😉 into his dueling, it would negate the aspect of Djem So which is so effective against Makashi. You have been officially pwned, Noob.No,it wouldn't.Read my other post about Mace and his technique,n00b,it says in the Shatterpoint novel that his patience in using Vapaad(Which is much like Luke's Djem So,except no Darkside,but still requires patience) was the only thing keeping Mace from falling to the DS while using Vaapad.You officially haven't PWNed anyone except yourself,because you fail at reading things CLEARLY.
3. It shows that Luke either has poor reflexes or weakness in the force at the time of ROTJ; reflexes are vital in blocking force lightning; strength in the force and reflexes basically go hand in hand.Really?Then why did Kenobi block Dooku's lightning so easily and effortlessly in AOTC?
Originally posted by DE Luke
No.The novel CLEARLY said he used Vaapad against Sidious,I have the nvoel right here.Don't lie,good debaters don't lie.Hello?Did you read my post?And ,again,you just answered your own question
\l/
There you go.No,it wouldn't.Read my other post about Mace and his technique,n00b,it says in the novel that his patience in using Vapaad(Which is much like Luke's Djem So,except no Darkside,but still requires patience) was the only thing keeping Mace from falling to the DS while using Vaapad.You officially haven't PWNed anyone except yourself,because you fail at reading things CLEARLY.
The novel is hardly canon, as elements of the novel have been proven to be false (by the movies). It is clear that Mace takes a defencive stance in his battle with Sidious and clearly isn't using 'the deadliest of forms'. And you seem to be confusing the meaning of the word patience with control or something, because not Schien, Vaapad, Ataru or any of the offensive forms employ anything remotely passive. This is obvious, nOOB.
Originally posted by DE Luke
Really?Then why did Kenobi block Dooku's lightning so easily and effortlessly in AOTC?
AOTC Kenobi was very strong in the force. He had almost already reached the rank of master. Luke by ROTJ is at the level of an average knight imo.
Originally posted by GM Nebaris
The novel is hardly canon, as elements of the novel have been proven to be false (by the movies). It is clear that Mace takes a defencive stance in his battle with Sidious and clearly isn't using 'the deadliest of forms'. And you seem to be confusing the meaning of the word patience with control or something, because not Schien, Vaapad, Ataru or any of the offensive forms employ anything remotely passive. This is obvious, nOOB.
AOTC Kenobi was very strong in the force. He had almost already reached the rank of master. Luke by ROTJ is at the level of an average knight imo.Yeah,pretty much BS right here,Luke was also strong in the Force and it doesn't take genius to deflect Force Lightning with a saber.And your opinion or mine for that matter,doesn't mean shit here.So stop trying to pass it off as proof.
AOTC Kenobi was very strong in the force. He had almost already reached the rank of master. Luke by ROTJ is at the level of an average knight imo.
I think you need to watch the scene again. He holds the saber upright and the lightning dissipates. There's no style involved. There's no "force mastery" involved. It's just him holding a saber upwards. It's not a hard concept to grasp...
And Luke would have likely been prepared for Force Lightning; Yoda felt he was ready to face the Emperor, which means Yoda would have likely taught him about the Emperor's trademark tactic (Lightning) and how to potentially counter it.
Originally posted by Generic HeroExactly.
I think you need to watch the scene again. He holds the saber upright and the lightning dissipates. There's no style involved. There's no "force mastery" involved. It's just him holding a saber upwards. It's not a hard concept to grasp...
And Luke would have likely been prepared for Force Lightning; Yoda felt he was ready to face the Emperor, which means Yoda would have likely taught him about the Emperor's trademark tactic (Lightning) and how to potentially counter it.In the novel,he did reflect for a moment without his saber before being overwelmed.
Originally posted by DE Luke
The novel is more canon than your own interpretation.And again,the novel says he is using Vapaad,it is more canon than your interpretation.And stop calling me a n00b,when I'm not the one who's acting like one.
You miss the point. There are many aspects of the novel which are contradicted by the films, therefor you must take into account that its credibility is severely undermined. Then add on the fact that my interpretation is based on common sence from a particular scene from the movie (the highest form of canon). This means that I can place my logical interpretation over the novel, which is known to be false at many times.
Originally posted by DE Luke
Yeah,pretty much BS right here.Luke was also strong in the Force.And your opinion or mine for that matter,doesn't mean shit here.So stop trying to pass it off as proof.
Notice how I added in 'imo', thus it's clear to anyone except you apparantely that I was not trying to pass off my opinion as fact, n00b. It's also pretty obvious that Luke is clearly not very strong in the force a this stage, n00b.
Originally posted by GM NebarisAgain,your interpretation means NOTHING as does mine,hell,I could 'interpret' that Anakin lost to Obi-Wan cause he was weaker than him(Which he wasn't,he was just distraught over the Jedi he killed and about Padme 'cheating' on him),that doesn't make it canon, so stop trying to pass it off as canon.And the movie,isn't the highest form of canon,Lucas is.He makes the decisions on what is canon and what is not,n00b.
[B]You miss the point. There are many aspects of the novel which are contradicted by the films, therefor you must take into account that its credibility is severely undermined. Then add on the fact that my interpretation is based on common sence from a particular scene from the movie (the highest form of canon). This means that I can place my logical interpretation over the novel, which is known to be false at many times.
Notice how I added in 'imo', thus it's clear to anyone except you apparantely that I was not trying to pass off my opinion as fact, n00b. It's also pretty obvious that Luke is clearly not very strong in the force a this stage, n00b.You were trying to pass off your opinion on how Obi-Wan was better than Luke in AOTC as canon because he deflected the lightning effortlessly as some sort of 'form' that Luke doesn't know,n00b.
Originally posted by DE Luke
Again,your interpretation means NOTHING as does mine,hell,I could 'interpret' that Anakin lost to Obi-Wan cause he was weaker than him(Which he wasn't,he was just distraught over the Jedi he killed and about Padme 'cheating' on him),that doesn't make it canon, so stop trying to pass it off as canon.And the movie,isn't the highest form of canon,Lucas is.He makes the decisions on what is canon and what is not,n00b.
N00b, you're not listening to what I'm saying. Mace was clearly not using Vaapad in ROTS against Sidious, he was clearly using a defencive form, that is obvious. Anyone would know that. It's clear that the novel's wrong, again, n00b.
Originally posted by DE Luke
[B] You were trying to pass off your opinion on how Obi-Wan was better than Luke in AOTC as canon because he deflected the lightning effortlessly as some sort of 'form' that Luke doesn't know,n00b.
Please, show me where exactly I stated or even implied this. I didn't mention anything about forms. Reading comprehension is your friend n00b.
Originally posted by Generic Hero
I think you need to watch the scene again. He holds the saber upright and the lightning dissipates. There's no style involved. There's no "force mastery" involved. It's just him holding a saber upwards. It's not a hard concept to grasp...And Luke would have likely been prepared for Force Lightning; Yoda felt he was ready to face the Emperor, which means Yoda would have likely taught him about the Emperor's trademark tactic (Lightning) and how to potentially counter it.
Where did I mention style? Where did I mention force mastery? I mentioned strength in the force, as it's obvious that one needs to be strong in the force to defend well against it.
When exactly would Yoda have taught him that, hmm?
Do you even understand the speed at which lightning strikes the opponent. It clearly requires great reflexes gained threw the force to block them, and I doubt that Luke is strong enough in the force or his reflexes are good enough to block lightning (especially considering his reflexes and/or strength in the force were not good enough to avoid getting hit by a blaster bolt in ROTJ).
Nebaris, Mace was using Vaapad agianst Palp. Your logic doesnt even make since. Vaapad is the deadliest style, but assuming that if one uses it it MUST be offensive and doing stupid shit like that is ridiculous. Mace mastered Vaapad to use against Sith, hell yeah he is going to use it against Palp. That is what it was made for.
Originally posted by DE Luke
1.Hello,again,the guiy who shot him was RIGHT BEHIND HIM!You've just proven how incredibly stupid you really are,and a very poor debater,if I can call you one,n00b.
Please explain furthur. How have I proven 'how incredibly stupid [i] really [am]'? The fact that Luke wasn't able to sence the attack in the first place just shows that he really wasn't that strong in the force, whic was one of my points, n00b.