RotJ Luke vs Count Dooku. · Star Wars Versus Forum

GM Nebaris Restricted

Dooku should be able to beat Luke with considerable ease.

Admiral Akbar Senior Member

Originally posted by DE Luke
Yeah,and look how good it helped him against Anakin.🙄

Wether Dooku was fighting to his full extent is up for debate, but I get the point. Escape listed quite a few examples. However..all of those jedi/sith started training as babies and they were far ahead of Luke in their style development.

Lord Saboteur Utinni!

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Wether Dooku was fighting to his full extent is up for debate, but I get the point. Escape listed quite a few examples. However..all of those jedi/sith started training as babies and they were far ahead of Luke in their style development.

Nope, if you're referring to the winners unless you're talking about Mace, Obi-Wan and Sidious. If you're talking about the people who lost, still wrong. Point's still there, just dulled a little.

Admiral Akbar Senior Member

Yes, and most of it was by luck or cheap shots.

jollyjim311 Scruffy Nerf Herder

Yay! Luke wins by luck/ a cheapshot then!!!

Admiral Akbar Senior Member

No, with luke its different. The others he listed I was referring to.

Lord Tyranus "Nerd maker funner of-er"

Like I have said before, Dooku far surpasses Luke in force ability and skill with a lightsaber.

DE Luke Senior Member

No,he doesn't,what Jim posted wasy back showed that Luke did far more than Dooku,considering Dooku wasn't born into war,Like Luke was(There were other Rebellions forming before the Alinace did,so I consider Luke's birth date in wartime)and he actually fought in it, on the ground and in the space battles,Dooku just hid,trying to get planets desperate enough to join Sidious' Confederacy.Now let this pointless debate die,fanboy.

GM Nebaris Restricted

Hey Luke wasn't it you who was saying that you were on the level of lightsnake. Prove it, because all you have shown to me is great incompetancy when it comes to debating.

DE Luke Senior Member

Why don't you try to prove me wrong then,n00b.Look at the stuff Jollyjim posted a page or two back,it shows Luke did FAR more than Dooku has shown us.I'll take the LFL authors words over yours anyday.

And keep your idiotic comments to yourself,n00b.And I said I was on Lightsnake's level of debaing,just not on his level of patience,Mr.I Think Sion can create force storms but have no proof to back it up other than assumptions.

These are before ESB happens, also, and Luke is still pretty good.
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=12&f=34&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_34
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=20&f=26&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_26
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=15&f=27&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_27

Also, a left over clone, who has seen Jedi fight, called Luke a Jedi. Take that for what you will, also.
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=23&f=27&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_27

Rampant ox Senior Member

Originally posted by Lord Tyranus
Like I have said before, Dooku far surpasses Luke in force ability and skill with a lightsaber.

Basically you are exactly right. Dooku is simply better than Luke in both saber skill and force mastery. If anyone doesnt beleive us just watch the movie. How about I put it in simple terms. Count Dooku wtf pwned AOTC Obi-Wan and Anakin. He then met Yoda blow for blow and managed to escape. ROTJ Luke sure as hell is cant do that. Also Dooku has had 80 years to train, master and perfect his style - which can I point out is made for lightsaber combat. Luke on the other hand has had maybe 1 week with Yoda and a few fights to 'perfect' his. Just face it, in terms of a saber Luke isnt in the same league as Dooku.

Force mastery is much the same. Dooku has had 80 years to master both the light and dark sides of the force. Luke has had extremely little time to learn the basics of the lightside. Yes, Luke probably has more potential than Dooku, but in ROTJ he is nowhere near on the Counts level. What Luke has shown us with the force is very basic, and nothing that the Count wouldnt be able to do. Hell, in AOTC we saw the Count rip down a solid rock roof.

DE Luke Senior Member

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Basically you are exactly right. Dooku is simply better than Luke in both saber skill and force mastery. If anyone doesnt beleive us just watch the movie. How about I put it in simple terms. Count Dooku wtf pwned AOTC Obi-Wan and Anakin. He then met Yoda blow for blow and managed to escape. ROTJ Luke sure as hell is cant do that. Also Dooku has had 80 years to train, master and perfect his style - which can I point out is made for lightsaber combat. Luke on the other hand has had maybe 1 week with Yoda and a few fights to 'perfect' his. Just face it, in terms of a saber Luke isnt in the same league as Dooku.

He didn't WTF Pwn Anakin and Obi-Wan.He goaded Obi-Wan into making mistakes and tried to get Anakin out of the game cause he knew he would lose to them both.And don't compare AOTC Anakin or Obi-Wan with Luke,in ROTJ Luke had quite a good sense of mastery in the Force and extreme patience aswell,Yoda(Who was the Grand Master of the Jedi Order BTW) himself said all Luke needed to do was defeat Vader,and Luke would be a Jedi.

Force mastery is much the same. Dooku has had 80 years to master both the light and dark sides of the force. Luke has had extremely little time to learn the basics of the lightside. Yes, Luke probably has more potential than Dooku, but in ROTJ he is nowhere near on the Counts level. What Luke has shown us with the force is very basic, and nothing that the Count wouldnt be able to do. Hell, in AOTC we saw the Count rip down a solid rock roof.

1.Yeah,the only thing the Count has shown us is how he runs away and how to behead an extremely arrogant old man.

2.Any Jedi can pull down a ceiling with the Force,and he was just doing that to distract Yoda so he could escape,he failed miserably.

3.Luke didn't even have to use his hands to lift Threepio,Dooku needed to do that just to bring a ceiling down where in Luke would just close his eyes and ceiling would fall,and look at what I copied from Jim's post please.

These are before ESB happens, also, and Luke is still pretty good.
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=12&f=34&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_34
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=20&f=26&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_26
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=15&f=27&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_27

Also, a left over clone, who has seen Jedi fight, called Luke a Jedi. Take that for what you will, also.
http://www.swcomics.com/empire_c.php?i=23&f=27&name=Star_Wars_-_Empire_27

Rampant ox Senior Member

Originally posted by DE Luke
He didn't WTF Pwn Anakin and Obi-Wan.He goaded Obi-Wan into making mistakes and tried to get Anakin out of the game cause he knew he would lose to them both.

Wtf!! Proof please. From what we see in the movies (the 2nd highest form of canon) Dooku took out the duo with ease. He didnt look worried at all. Like you said, he was confident enough to goad the two.

And don't compare AOTC Anakin or Obi-Wan with Luke,in ROTJ Luke had quite a good sense of mastery in the Force and extreme patience aswell

Wow. So patience is going to win him the battle. I dont think so somehow.

Yoda(Who was the Grand Master of the Jedi Order BTW) himself said all Luke needed to do was defeat Vader,and Luke would be a Jedi.

So what you are saying is that only after Luke bet Vader he was a jedi. So that would be about 10 minutes. Hahahaha, Dooku has been a jedi for decades. In fact he is a jedi master and a sith lord. Both thee titles are above a mere jedi.

1.Yeah,the only thing the Count has shown us is how he runs away and how to behead an extremely arrogant old man.

The only thing Luke has shown us is how to get your arm chopped off and then how to jump down a giant hole.

2.Any Jedi can pull down a ceiling with the Force,and he was just doing that to distract Yoda so he could escape,he failed miserably.

LMAO!!! Not any jedi could just rip down the roof. And he destroyed the roof before the battle even started btw. And I dont see how he failed miserably. If he had been there to fight Yoda, then he would have failed miserably. But all Dooku wanted to do was get to Coruscant. Luke failed miserably when he went to kill Vader and had his arm chopped off, and when he was meant to save Han but he still got encased in carbonite.

3.Luke didn't even have to use his hands to lift Threepio,Dooku needed to do that just to bring a ceiling down where in Luke would just close his eyes and ceiling would fall,and look at what I copied from Jim's post please.

LMAO!!! You make it sound like lifting 3P0 is some mighty task that only the best can do. Dooku ripping down a steel balcony and collapsing a solid rock roof shows better skill.

DE Luke Senior Member

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Wtf!! Proof please. From what we see in the movies (the 2nd highest form of canon) Dooku took out the duo with ease. He didnt look worried at all. Like you said, he was confident enough to goad the two.

Yeah,he just isn't confident enough to try and take boht of them so he took the cowards way out.
And no,it's only YOUR interpretation(Which means crap,as does mine) that thinks they got 'WTF Pwned'.

Wow. So patience is going to win him the battle. I dont think so somehow.

It does,genius.If you lose all control then you start to make mistakes and mistakes get you killed,just like what happened to Dooku.

So what you are saying is that only after Luke bet Vader he was a jedi. So that would be about 10 minutes. Hahahaha, Dooku has been a jedi for decades. In fact he is a jedi master and a sith lord. Both thee titles are above a mere jedi.

No,he ISN'T a Jedi Master,he resigned that title.And do you know what a Jedi is?He didn't say he would be a Padawan,otherwise he wouldve stated it.

The only thing Luke has shown us is how to get your arm chopped off and then how to jump down a giant hole.

Atleast he survived,unlike Dooku,who was so stupid he got his hands cut of along with his head.

LMAO!!! Not any jedi could just rip down the roof. And he destroyed the roof before the battle even started btw. And I dont see how he failed miserably. If he had been there to fight Yoda, then he would have failed miserably. But all Dooku wanted to do was get to Coruscant. Luke failed miserably when he went to kill Vader and had his arm chopped off, and when he was meant to save Han but he still got encased in carbonite.

1.Read my post,I said he was using that as a distraction so he could escape.

2.He didn't fail miserably,atleast he got a blow in,unlike Dooku,who couldn't even TOUCH Anakin.

LMAO!!! You make it sound like lifting 3P0 is some mighty task that only the best can do. Dooku ripping down a steel balcony and collapsing a solid rock roof shows better skill. [/B]

I didn't mean lifting Threepio himself,again you fail to read,I siad he didn't even need to use his hands,unlike Dooku who needed to use them everytime he did something with the Force.And ripping a steel balcony and collapsing a roof can be done by just about any Force user,not just Dooku,and again when he did that to Kenoib he was fihgting like a coward,he knew he'd lose and even the novel says he was getting overwelmed by both their attacks and thats why he collapsed it on Kenobi in the first place,didn't seem to help in the end.

And ,again,did you look at the links I reposted?

GM Nebaris Restricted

One thing Luke, how is patience a good thing for Luke in this fight? Luke is a Schien user, not a Soresu user.

And I still don't see how Luke will be able to defend against force lightning.

GM Nebaris Restricted

And also, not trying to be cocky or anything but those links that you posted lessen your point of view, because if that's what you consider Luke's greatest accomplishments to be, Dooku is leagues above him.

DE Luke Senior Member

1.No,he's a Djem So user,which is stated in SW Insider,to counter Makashi.

2.Uh,Lightsaber?

And show me what Dooku has done that you consider him 'leagues' above him.With links to it,please.

Rampant ox Senior Member

Originally posted by DE Luke
Yeah,he just isn't confident enough to try and take boht of them so he took the cowards way out.
And no,it's only YOUR interpretation(Which means crap,as does mine) that thinks they got 'WTF Pwned'.

From what we see in the movies (which is higher than any ofour pinions/interpretations) Dooku bet them both. He pwned Anakin with lightning, slashed Kenobi in the arm and leg and then continued to promptly cut off Anakins arm. ROTK Luke would not be able to do any of this.

It does,genius.If you lose all control then you start to make mistakes and mistakes get you killed,just like what happened to Dooku.

Fair enough. But who is going to make a mistake first. Dooku, who has trained for duelling and has perfected his technique or Luke, who has been in minimal battles and only knows the basics of his style. I think the answer is pretty obvious.

No,he ISN'T a Jedi Master,he resigned that title.And do you know what a Jedi is?He didn't say he would be a Padawan,otherwise he wouldve stated it.

Yoda doesnt state what rank Luke would be. Lets assume it is master. Dooku has been a master for a lot longer and he has also become a sith lord. Again, Dooku has the advantage here.

Atleast he survived,unlike Dooku,who was so stupid he got his hands cut of along with his head.

Hahahaha. We have argued this countless times before. I cant be bothered doing it again, especially since it is irrelevant tot his thread.

1.Read my post,I said he was using that as a distraction so he could escape.

Yes he did ave to escape because Yoda was better. I dont see what point you are making though...

2.He didn't fail miserably,atleast he got a blow in,unlike Dooku,who couldn't even TOUCH Anakin.

Actually he kicked Anakin across the room WHILE wtf pwning Kenobi.

I didn't mean lifting Threepio himself,again you fail to read,I siad he didn't even need to use his hands,unlike Dooku who needed to use them everytime he did something with the Force.

Every jedi used there hands when using the force. It made it easier to move/manipulate things. Luke was tied up so he couldnt use his hands. This meant he was forced to lift 3P0 with just his mind, no hand actions. Yes this is more difficult, but its not to say that Dooku or any other force user wouldnt be able to.

And ripping a steel balcony and collapsing a roof can be done by just about any Force user,not just Dooku

Lets agree to disagree. I personally think that it would take a great deal of force control to do. Only the very best would be able. And this does not include ROTJ Luke.

and again when he did that to Kenoib he was fihgting like a coward,he knew he'd lose and even the novel says he was getting overwelmed by both their attacks and thats why he collapsed it on Kenobi in the first place,didn't seem to help in the end.

The fight was two against one against an 80 year old man. Of course Dooku is going to get overwhelmed. He eliminated Kenobi to even the odds but he physically was too tired to continue. then Anakin grabbed his arms and cut them off. He was too weak to break Anakins grip so was defeated.[/quote]

GM Nebaris Restricted

1. Schien and Djem So are virtually the same form. the nature behind the forms is exactly the same. And Schien counters Makashi because it overwhelms the Makashi user with offence, which is precisely why 'patience' wouldn't help Luke at all which was the point I was trying to make.

And not that this is part of the debate, but just to quickly prove yourself as a debater because quite frankly I think you suck, why don't you explain why Djem So counters Makashi.

2. Luke has displayed very bad use of blaster deflection, namely when he is shot in the hand by one of jabba's thugs which leads me to believe that he would get owned by Dooku's lightning.

Captain REX Networking

Luke was hit with a stray shot, really. He wasn't trying to deflect shots, from what I saw. Also, Sith lightning is a teeny bit different than a blaster bolt...