Phoenix Force vs a Multiversal Power......Phoenix get's Crushed!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Here we go again. 🙄

They never learn. 🙁

Phoenix manifests as the Big Bang. Therefore it is responsible for spawning a universe. Theres just no getting around it my friend. 😉

The energy was already there but Phoenix linked it together and formed a constant stable flow of it throughout the multiverse. Hence my statement that Phoenix created an energy matrix that flows around the multiverse. You've changed nothing. 🙁

Nope. You presented an on panel scan. On panel proof? ❌

For it to be on panel proof it would have to conclusively prove the point youre trying to make through an unbiased statement and a depiction not open to interpretation.

You showed a scan of the UN recreating Eternity. You proved nothing.

The IG gives control of the energy within a reality. Not only does the power within a reality stem from Phoenix as she is the Big Bang but the fact that she held 616 in the palm of her hand should tell you straight away shes beyond the IG. The IG gives you mastery over something she can hold like a tennis ball.

LT offered Surfer a connection to the Infinite. He was therefore going to hook him up to something. That is the only description pertaining to what he was going to do so thats all we have to go by. No assumption or supposition required or welcome. 😄

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17809374979.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17809385351.jpg&s=f5

He made Surfer one with the universe, as Phoenix did to Jason Wyngarde. But by your logic and observational skills im guessing she you'd say she turned him into one 😂

GS you never disappoint.

wtf

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What credible evidence?

The LT turning SS into a universe was garbage.

The UN recreating the multiverse not only has no precedence but also isnt supported on panel through statement or artistic depiction.

The M'kraan crystal got retconned into a multiversal nexus of realities over a decade ago.

With those things in mind his argument is in tatters. 🙂

I wouldn't go that far GS.

Mr. Master has provided some on panel evidence that does show us the degree of LT's power.

The Nullifier and M'Kraan crystal however I could really care less about. I'm more interested in character hierarchy, not artifacts.

And you already know how I feel about that Korvac incident you always bring up.

Also, Phoenix didn't make Mastermind one with the universe, per se, as much as she gave him a glimpse of her scope of power and caused him to become catatonic from sensory overload.

I wouldn't equate that with LT granting Surfer momentary Godhood. It was more of a cosmic induced epileptic seizure in Mastermind's case.

But that's simply my personal interpretation and opinion.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I wouldn't go that far GS.

Mr. Master has provided some on panel evidence that does show us the degree of LT's power.

The Nullifier and M'Kraan crystal however I could really care less about. I'm more interested in character hierarchy, not artifacts.

And you already know how I feel about that Korvac incident you always bring up.

LTs power has never been in doubt. What i was against was his ridculous claims about the SS incident and his attempt to demote Phoenix through an ill-informed argument. 😉

Originally posted by illadelph12
Also, Phoenix didn't make Mastermind one with the universe, per se, as much as she gave him a glimpse of her scope of power and caused him to become catatonic from sensory overload.

I wouldn't equate that with LT granting Surfer momentary Godhood. It was more of a cosmic induced epileptic seizure in Mastermind's case.

But that's simply my personal interpretation and opinion.

It states that his mind expanded from one side of reality to the other and that he had been placed in touch with the universe. It goes on to say he had been transformed into a god. Id say it equates to the LT incident. The only difference is Phoenix did it as an attack whilst LT did it to give SS an insight therefore how she integrated Mastermind into the experience would have been more abrupt. 😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix manifests as the Big Bang. Therefore it is responsible for spawning a universe. Theres just no getting around it my friend.

Whatever...

I tell my dog to sit all the time...he never listens...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The energy was already there but Phoenix linked it together and formed a constant stable flow of it throughout the multiverse. Hence my statement that Phoenix created an energy matrix that flows around the multiverse. You've changed nothing.

I wished I had time to get into all the replies you threw up...you've lost. And your LYING as you always have and always will..

Phoenix DID NOT LINK the Energy Matrix together..you freakin LIAR!

This before the Phoenix even came into the picture:
"when a series of interfaces across the Multiverse were aligned, the localized energy fields merged..to Create an Energy Matrix."

AT the MOMENT of ALIGNMENT, THEN Feron called Phoenix to project the Tower", a simple feat...considering it was the Energy Matrix(ON IT"S OWN)that allowes simultaneous existence in the Multiverse when the Interfaces Across are Aligned, Which Also happens ON it's OWN.

I have to be out right now, but I'll be back, and dissprove eveything you wrote, even though most of it has been disproved anyhow already.

Your just explaining your way along and hoping for the best and installing a LIES when ever you can..

Originally posted by Mr Master
Whatever...

I tell my dog to sit all the time...he never listens...

Errr......

Her manifestation results in the formation of reality. No more, no less. You're not achieving a thing. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
I wished I had time to get into all the replies you threw up...you've lost. And your LYING as you always have and always will..

SHHHH!!!! 😂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix DID NOT LINK the Energy Matrix together..you freakin LIAR!

This before the Phoenix even came into the picture:
"when a series of interfaces across the Multiverse were aligned, the localized energy fields merged..to Create an Energy Matrix."

AT the MOMENT of ALIGNMENT, THEN Feron called Phoenix to project the Tower", a simple feat...considering it was the Energy Matrix(ON IT"S OWN)that allowes simultaneous existence in the Multiverse when the Interfaces Across are Aligned, Which Also happens ON it's OWN.

As i stated previously prior to Phoenixes involvement there was just ambient energy which aligned periodically. Phoenixes feat resulted in a permanently linked energy matrix which flows through the multiverse. 😄

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to be out right now, but I'll be back, and dissprove eveything you wrote, even though most of it has been disproved anyhow already.

Your just explaining your way along and hoping for the best and installing a LIES when ever you can..

Ok Mr. ✅ Whatever you say. 🙄

Nite nite. 😱

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
LT offered Surfer a connection to the Infinite. He was therefore going to hook him up to something. That is the only description pertaining to what he was going to do so thats all we have to go by. No assumption or supposition required or welcome. http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17809385351.jpg&s=f5

He made Surfer one with the universe, as Phoenix did to Jason Wyngarde. But by your logic and observational skills im guessing she you'd say she turned him into one

AHAHAHAHAHA!!

Your a joke...

Jean expanded his mind...it CLEARLY says that. ------ Is this guy for real..

You can see Silver Surfer's body becoming...are you IGNORING..the scan that CLEARLY shows him EXPANDING into a Universe?

What's wrong with you...you better stick with lying inbetween the lines like you did with the Excalibur Tower event.

Well this is pretty much wrapped up. I guess i can go away again for a few days. I'll be back to laugh at any rebuttal. 😉

Werent you leaving? 🙄

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

LT offered Surfer a connection to the Infinite. He was therefore going to hook him up to something. That is the only description pertaining to what he was going to do so thats all we have to go by. No assumption or supposition required or welcome. 😄

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17809374979.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=6/17809385351.jpg&s=f5

He made Surfer one with the universe, as Phoenix did to Jason Wyngarde. But by your logic and observational skills im guessing she you'd say she turned him into one 😂

Still applies. 😂

And i bet you thought this was gonna be all easy and sh*t 😂

Not exactly GS. I read the Dark Phoenix Saga. Jean didn't make him a God, she overloaded his mind with information by, as you say, 'making him one with the universe'.

It was sensory overload, not granting him Godhood. He was overwhelmed by the scope of what Jean was force feeding his mind, which happened to be a glimpse of 'Godhood'.

But as I said before, that's my interpretation and opinion.

so who's winning, ill?

am winning vote me

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As i stated previously prior to Phoenixes involvement there was just ambient energy which aligned periodically. Phoenixes feat resulted in a permanently linked energy matrix which flows through the multiverse.

I'll take care of this last LIE before I go...

While Necrom and Feron had fought, Merlyn had jumped into the Energy Matrix...

He was swept across the Multiverse and was finally able to control the Energy Matrix and created Otherworld.
At Otherworld Merlyn, along with his daughter Roma, over-looked the Multiverse.

Keep up the Good Job on using the "New Handbook" for your debates..a man that would spit on anything that wasn't "ON PANEL PROOF"...this is what I have done to you... oh... what have I done...

Bottomline:

You still were unable to SHOW Phoenix Creating A Universe.

You still were unable to SHOW Phoenix destroying or remaking the Multiverse.

And you STILL are unable to show Phoenix even with a Multiversal FEAT..as I just disproved your last attempt at glory with the Excalibur Tower..

Originally posted by leonidas
so who's winning, ill?

Not Brazil, I know that much. 😆

As far as this debate goes, I think the main problem is they are arguing 2 separate topics for the most part.

Mr. Master has shed enormous light on LT's feats and position, but I still don't see anything that puts him above Phoenix. The Marvel handbook explicitly referred to them as counterparts when it covered the on panel occurance of their interaction (and I've said as much many times).

At this point, I'd have to say that it's a draw, simply because while Mr. Master has presented a lot of evidence to support his points, he hasn't landed anything that definitively debunks the Phoenix's role, and we are dealing with highly dubious subject matter that is far to open to interpretation to begin with.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Not Brazil, I know that much. 😆

As far as this debate goes, I think the main problem is they are arguing 2 separate topics for the most part.

Mr. Master has shed enormous light on LT's feats and position, but I still don't see anything that puts him above Phoenix. The Marvel handbook explicitly referred to them as counterparts when it covered the on panel occurance of their interaction (and I've said as much many times).

At this point, I'd have to say that it's a draw, simply because while Mr. Master has presented a lot of evidence to support his points, he hasn't landed anything that definitively debunks the Phoenix's role, and we are dealing with highly dubious subject matter that is far to open to interpretation to begin with.

i'm curious what you think he proved about lt?

i think the debate has taken on a different direction than was initially intended. i think the purpose was to say multiversal beings could crush pf. mm used the hotu, ig and lt as his main . . . 'instruments of crushing'.

however, i don't think it was conclusively shown the ig was multiversal. i showed a lot of scans that would put it only on the universal scale (the one where thanos 'evolved' beyond 'all vulnerabilities' and a need to even use the ig when he became eternity was quite telling imo, as was thanos and the ig's inability to deal with hyperstorm as the anomaly).

i still see no reason to accept that the hotu was a multiversal power source. regardless of thanos's boasts (he boasts a lot . . .) there was nothing that clearly said that was lt's TRUE form that was absorbed (a shadow lt was beaten or injured recently by reed) and there were many references made to UNIVERSE, rather than multiverse.

lt's power was never in question, but from his confrontation with adam, i don't think we can conclusively say lt was clearly beyond the ig. the handbook seems to say that, but on panel there was still no real evidence to support that. on seperate occasions adam said he was forced to relinquish it, and he wanted to release. again, no real concrete answer.

now, IS there a pf consciousness in the white hot room that overlooks the multiverse and does that mean it's a multiversal version of the pf manifesting in each universe? i still don't know for sure, but gs's scans seem to indicate that . . . 😬 and if he's right, can THAT version of pf withstand lt? who the hell knows . . .

Well, for me, he proved by posting the bio that Phoenix and LT are 'counterparts', rather than LT being a subordinate of Phoenix as GS had alluded to.

The IG scan is far to given to interpretation in my eyes. I personally don't see it as LT questioning whether he had the power to stop Adam because both he and Warlock knew the outcome was a forgone conclusion, Adam simply didn't want to accept it (my personal interpretation).

I agree with Mr. M's interpretation of the Korvac situation. I said essentially the same thing to GS myself when we argued that event. There's no definitive proof that Korvac protected the Earth from that supernova, and even if so, he never stood up to a direct assault of LT's power. Also, Mr. M provided what happened after that notorious scan which cements that they whole scenario was manipulated by Death herself, so there's really no definitive accounting.

As for the Protegé incident that was mentioned to downplay LT, in that occurence Protegé (who is Marvel's version of Duplicate Boy) copies LT's powers, but doesn't have LT's limitations (ie, the 3 heads having to agree on any action LT takes).

Also, as was stated directly by a Marvel Writer, the LT M-Body's are not the some of LT's being, but akin to a 'fingernail', so it could be deduced that a 'fingernail' portion of LT's sum is powerful enough to seal off entire universes and grant Godhood (I'm not saying that personally, but given the accounts of a Writer and on panel depictions, you could).

So basically, the scans simply reaffirmed things I already had in mind but didn't have any on panel depictions to support.

Wolverine wins. jockey