Re: Re: The TRUTH
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
IIRC this scan was used previously to say the abstracts were bowing down to Jean Grey. 🙄
By G.S. no doubt. Tsk tsk.
This whole story regards the 616 universe and it's universal cycle ONLY. Why the Living Tribunal is there I don't know. But still humanity itself will take over as the cycle goes on.
The Phoenix Force is greater than other abstracts? 😆 😘 Nope. This story fits humanity, the Phoenix, Galactus, Eternity, and other abstracts into the universe's ever end and renewal.
IF this story is correct, Galactus's species was the species that previously had the potential evolve into the abstracts. Eternity, Death, and other abstracts my also be part of this species. But that's just my opinion.
Re: The TRUTH
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
[B]To sum this all upThe Phoenix Force is part of the universe, no more important than any others of the universe. The Celestials serve the abstracts by seeding creation with the potential to evolve into the abstracts, in fact they were respond for humanity. Humanity is the KEY (NOT the PF) to the ending of the universe and it's beginning. PF merely ensures that they survive (Galan for instance) to become the new abstracts (Galactus). [/B]
that sounds cool and all that, but . . . it doesn't make any sense. i'm not questioning your interpretation of the events as handled in that book, i'm questining the concept as a whole and it incongruity with what we know.
the current abstracts didn't evolve from humanity or its equivalents. any bio will show the fallacy of that. they seem to come from the creation energy or simply gain awareness somehow. galan didn't become an abstract -- he became galactus. the abstracts reach the end of their cycle when their universe ends. they aren't 'carried over'.
the whole notion of mankind replacing the cosmics seems so ridiculous to me and outside of everything we know, a forced story that flies in the face of continuity.
but i'm curious whitewitchking (heretofore known as wwk! 🙂 ) what's YOUR take on the whole lt bowing down to the pf scene?
Re: Re: Re: The TRUTH
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
By G.S. no doubt. Tsk tsk.This whole story regards the 616 universe and it's universal cycle ONLY. Why the Living Tribunal is there I don't know. But still humanity itself will take over as the cycle goes on.
The Phoenix Force is greater than other abstracts? 😆 😘 Nope. This story fits humanity, the Phoenix, Galactus, Eternity, and other abstracts into the universe's ever end and renewal.
IF this story is correct, Galactus's species was the species that previously had the potential evolve into the abstracts. Eternity, Death, and other abstracts my also be part of this species. But that's just my opinion.
i'm also curious -- how do you explain the whitehot room and jean's telekinetic handling of that other universe? seems to indicate that the pf is integral to far more than just our 616, no?
ps-i HATE phoenix . . .
Re: Re: The TRUTH
Originally posted by leonidasOn closer inspection the abstracts aren't bowing down to Jean Grey at all that was a self-perpetuating myth. Look at the scan more closely. And I'm not sure if that even is the LT.
but i'm curious whitewitchking (heretofore known as wwk! 🙂 ) what's YOUR take on the whole lt bowing down to the pf scene?
Originally posted by illadelph12
Well, for me, he proved by posting the bio that Phoenix and LT are 'counterparts', rather than LT being a subordinate of Phoenix as GS had alluded to.The IG scan is far to given to interpretation in my eyes. I personally don't see it as LT questioning whether he had the power to stop Adam because both he and Warlock knew the outcome was a forgone conclusion, Adam simply didn't want to accept it (my personal interpretation).
I agree with Mr. M's interpretation of the Korvac situation. I said essentially the same thing to GS myself when we argued that event. There's no definitive proof that Korvac protected the Earth from that supernova, and even if so, he never stood up to a direct assault of LT's power. Also, Mr. M provided what happened after that notorious scan which cements that they whole scenario was manipulated by Death herself, so there's really no definitive accounting.
As for the Protegé incident that was mentioned to downplay LT, in that occurence Protegé (who is Marvel's version of Duplicate Boy) copies LT's powers, but doesn't have LT's limitations (ie, the 3 heads having to agree on any action LT takes).
Also, as was stated directly by a Marvel Writer, the LT M-Body's are not the some of LT's being, but akin to a 'fingernail', so it could be deduced that a 'fingernail' portion of LT's sum is powerful enough to seal off entire universes and grant Godhood (I'm not saying that personally, but given the accounts of a Writer and on panel depictions, you could).
So basically, the scans simply reaffirmed things I already had in mind but didn't have any on panel depictions to support.
thumbs_up
i disagree with a couple parts of it, but i get what you're saying. 😉
Re: Re: Re: The TRUTH
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
On closer inspection the abstracts aren't bowing down to Jean Grey at all that was a self-perpetuating myth. Look at the scan more closely. And I'm not sure if that even is the LT.
that wasn't the scan gs showed in the past, was it . . .? 😕 i thought i remembered it differently . . .
Re: Re: Re: Re: The TRUTH
Originally posted by leonidas
that wasn't the scan gs showed in the past, was it . . .? 😕 i thought i remembered it differently . . .
That's the same scan. GS's argument was that the Stranger's use of the PF was enough to humble the Abstracts...
More and more I'm feeling that this thread is a necessary evil.
😕 It doesn't show the Stranger using the Phoenix though... all it says is he wants to spark evolution to destroy the universe (singular).
Originally posted by Mordum🤨... Where?
Now im not saying anything about anything but i am saying this. In the sacns they may not be bowing to phoenix but it does show every abstract within the pohenix's fire. Mean anything?Oh and BTW the Infinites would crush LT with one hand.
Re: Re: The TRUTH
Originally posted by leonidas
that sounds cool and all that, but . . . it doesn't make any sense. i'm not questioning your interpretation of the events as handled in that book, i'm questining the concept as a whole and it incongruity with what we know.
Thanks for putting time into reading Leonidas.
the current abstracts didn't evolve from humanity or its equivalents. any bio will show the fallacy of that. they seem to come from the creation energy or simply gain awareness somehow. galan didn't become an abstract -- he became galactus. the abstracts reach the end of their cycle when their universe ends. they aren't 'carried over'.
True. This is like asking if the PF were responsible for creation and YET Jean is also the PF.
Here, the PF remembers the Big Bang and how "I came into being." If the PF created the MU then why does it remember the big bang, it's birth? PF is the "child of the stars" is she not?
http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phoenixforce18cl.jpg
I like you and everyone have pieces of the puzzle only. But to have a cycle their should be a beginning right? TOAA is by all that has been reference the top being of the MU.
TOAA creates the Multiverse & the Living Tribunal
My opinion ONLY:
During that the 1st BIG BANG of a universe, abstracts or concepts of each universe are born. Eternity, Death, Oblivion, Chaos, Order, Phoenix, and possibly Galactus (or something like him that keeps the balance between Eternity and Death) are created to serve the universe.
From there, life and the universe began to form and the Celestials were created for the purpose and a species is "seeded with the potential" of replacing the abstract. Once the reach their potential, the universe comes to an end (possibly by the Phoenix Force). These potentials are saved from the end by "the Chaos Bringer" (PF) and merges with the remaining Eternity and other abstracts to continue begin a new universe once again. Hence, Phoenix Force or the Resurrection Force is also known as the Force of Creation. The new universe begins with the replaced abstracts. It's all a big cycle with the first big bang being caused by TOAA. But that's my two cents on it.
http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternity18pq.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=galactus13lc.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=galactus13lc.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=infinity3uc.jpg
the whole notion of mankind replacing the cosmics seems so ridiculous to me and outside of everything we know, a forced story that flies in the face of continuity.
Well, Stranger's entire plan is based on the current potentialsw, which is human kind. Even the Stranger admits their are more honorable species. The Celestials are the ones responsible for life and the potential of a species to replace the abstracts. I don't think humanity is going to be the potential species in the next universe.
but i'm curious whitewitchking (heretofore known as wwk! 🙂 ) what's YOUR take on the whole lt bowing down to the pf scene?
That's funny and I don't know. The whole story revolves around one universe...616. The story doesn't explain. And it further contradicts the Living Tribunal's position in the MU.
Re: Re: Re: Re: The TRUTH
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm also curious -- how do you explain the whitehot room and jean's telekinetic handling of that other universe? seems to indicate that the pf is integral to far more than just our 616, no?ps-i HATE phoenix . . .
How do I explain the White Hot Room? I can't explain it like I can't explain Sis-neg (Genesis spelled backwards) being the god of 616 during Dr. Strange, the suicide of the Infinity Being which supposedly created the universe as well, that demon thing that talked to Reed, and other's who have created the universe. Supposedly that is the core of creation but of what creation? It's just another mystery of the MU.
As for the the fixing of that universe I don't see how repairing a universe is out of the reach of Eternity, Infinity, Death, or other abstracts. Eternity is universe, but I have no doubt that he couldn't journey to other universe or fix it. Even skyfathers and demons from terran patheons have wrecked a galaxy at least. The living emobiment of the universe is leagues above skyfather level.
Here's Surtur forging the Twilight Sword from a galaxy:
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
That's funny and I don't know. The whole story revolves around one universe...616. The story doesn't explain. And it further contradicts the Living Tribunal's position in the MU.
Not exactly.
LT is commissioned to protect all of the universes within the multi-verse. When the 616's cycle is up and it's time for Phoenix to destroy and recreate, LT's role in that particular universe is usurped (he's no longer needed).
That doesn't however mean that, say, universe 565324.1 doesn't need LT, and he'd still have duties to carry out there.
I think the 616 LT M-Body just gets recycled along with the universe, or maybe just 'decommissioned', because it's no longer needed.
Originally posted by Mordum
Now im not saying anything about anything but i am saying this. In the sacns they may not be bowing to phoenix but it does show every abstract within the pohenix's fire. Mean anything?
Yes, that she is part of the universe. The scan before it shows the Stranger explaining mankinds role in the universe and says that the abstracts do not accept this course of mankind. Eternity shows up and talks only the Jean and tells her the truth. Phoenix is part of the universe as she ensures the species with "potential" survive the ending of the universe and is becomes the abstracts of the new universe. That is PF role in the universe. This plan was by the abstracts of themselves who create the Celestials to create life and give "potential" to a species.
