Phoenix Force vs a Multiversal Power......Phoenix get's Crushed!

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Makes sense, but then that shows that Pheonix is NOT the actual creator. Other panels have shown that "Pheonix is a child of the universe", while others portray her as the Spark of the Universe.

If Lucifer can create a universe, and Pheonix can only recreate a past universe, than it is more impressive on Lucifer's part since he made a universe from nothing, did he not ?

Absolutely...

Lucifer is definitely more powerful that the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by the Darkone
I agree with GS, PF is equal to the living tribunal. That's how I feel the stories that I have read made me a believer.

You want to trully understand the Phoenix Force?

Check out WhiteWithcKing's wisdom on the whole PF existence and it's place in the hierarchy...then come back and tell me you agree with gs.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=410642&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=21

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Makes sense, but then that shows that Pheonix is NOT the actual creator. Other panels have shown that "Pheonix is a child of the universe", while others portray her as the Spark of the Universe.

If Lucifer can create a universe, and Pheonix can only recreate a past universe, than it is more impressive on Lucifer's part since he made a universe from nothing, did he not ?

Originally posted by Juntai
In issue 75...When Lucifer left Creation and entered the void that everything exists in before it tramsforms back into nothing.... he learned to view it from the outside, he saw it as a multiverse, infinitely layered.. that rise and fall in moments time. He stopped and stared into one and abosorbed its 20 billion years in an instant. He witnessed being created, when he did it, and his history. Out here in the nothingness he met Yahweh and they sat at a table and had a talk while 'watching the creations enjoy their brief efflorescences'. Yahweh tells a parable of a monkey leaping from one side of creation to the other and leaving a mark on a collumn, to prove to himself that he was greater than Buddha, but when he returned to Buddha's to gloat, Buddha raised his hand and showed him the mark on his finger. Samael[Lucifer] took it sort of offensively as a sign in futility... no matter where/when he is, he'll always be a creation of Yahweh.. Yahweh asks Lucifer to join with him so he could better understand his thoughts, and in doing this merge, Lucifer would become the creator of all things with himself. As every creation in the void spawns from Yahweh. Lucifer says no, and flies off into the void.

That sounds cool as hell. ✅

So Lucifer wanted to prove that he was greater than Buddha ? How come? I know that Lucifer had a love/hate relationship with Izanami of Japanese mythos, which was interesting, but what was Lucifer's dispute with Buddha exactly?

The Buddah thing was just a parable, representing the fulitiy that Lucifer can never truly beat[escape] his maker, because Yahweh will always be his maker.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Care to explain this again one more time? Your confusing me. And please break it down as simple or simpler.

Your talking about Ziran barely keeping his balance and what looks like Lord Chaos holding him up? While everyone else inlcuidng Eternity and Galactus gettin blasted out in every direction? And LT was like Eh.

Ah, what? Warlock's assault on the court was the same as Thanos and Nebula's. Thanos and Nebula could've destroyed them all if they wanted to. None of them did. What they did was beat down on the cosmics the way Warlock did, through shrear power. Even without resorting to blinking them out of existence, all three wielders proved the shrear might of the IG was enough to beat down the combined cosmics.

How's any of this different from what Warlock did? They all did an omidirectinal attack on the cosmics, then Nebula turned them into stone, Thanos imprisonned them, but Warlock was stopped midway by the Tribunal.

I'll combine these statements and explain them at the same time.

When Nebula and Thanos attacked the cosmics with an omnidirectional blast, they were ALL defeated in one panel like they were nothing. When Warlock let out his blast, they were all blown away except for the LT (unfazed), Ziran the Celestial (still standing but obviously struggling), and possibly Lord Chaos (hard to tell if he was holding Ziran up or just flying back). If Warlock was using the same amount of power to blast the cosmics away as Nebula and Thanos did, then no one (besides the LT possibly) would have been left standing. It is possible for someone to use the same attack twice with varying results depending on how much power they input into the attack.

Now, as for the attack not affecting the LT, again the LT was an unknown quantity to Warlock. Warlock didn't know his power level. Yes, he didn't know some of the other cosmics as well, but he knew the IG could defeat them since it already had. When Warlock first met the LT at the gathering, Eternity addressed the LT as a peer ("one of equal standing to another"😉. So, for all Warlock knew, the same amount of energy required to blow away Eternity should have been enough for the LT. He found out that it wasn't and was surprised. But that does not prove the LT's superiority to the IG. It just proves his superiority to the other cosmics.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Even early into the attacks, neither Nebula nor Thanos' attack we stopped in anyway. Thanos actually reversed Chronos time attack back on him. None of them could even directly affect and stop an IG attack.

Which means that the LT is more powerful than the other cosmics. It doesn't automatically equate to him being more powerful than the IG.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
😕 Warlock said that, not Eternity. He even snapped his fingers and Eternity was gone. Later Eternity shows up on a planet and tries to converse with Warlock over who the gems are given to (in a Warlock Chrononicles).

Warlock said he had grown tired of Eternity. Eternity followed by saying he had grown tired of Warlock. While making this statement, Eternity is blinking away. After Eternity's statement, Warlock tells him to begone. The LT follows up with something like "as should we all be" and they disappear.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
That's what LT always looks like that. They stood face to face and LT looks like he does at the beginning of the trial and the end. He could careless about Warlock's threat on him. Warlock, however, was trying to stare down the LT and LOL what looks to be like mad dogging him. As always the LT cared for the universes. The IG couldn't even affect him in any way but Warlock could wreck havoc on everything else.

And yes, he bugged. Standing up and ruling against Warlock while Warlock pulls out another threat.

Didn't say it had to do with his look. It had to do with what he said. He said he had to determine whether or not Warlock deserved to keep the IG and whether or not he had the power to take the IG from Warlock if need be. He ruled against Warlock keeping it, but he never mentioned if he could take it from Warlock. All he said was that a battle between the two would destroy reality.

How can you say that the IG couldn't affect the LT in any way? He only felt its power once with one attack. That's like saying Odin couldn't affect Thanos based on his first attack not doing anything to Thanos. Only difference is they had a battle afterwards to prove otherwise. Warlock and LT didn't.

No, neither one of them budged based on the energy they were releasing. Warlock flinched after the LT made him feel guilty for both of them having to destroy reality with the battle they were about to have. That's it.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
How many others have canceled such an attack that was whipping the cosmics?

None, which shows how powerful the LT is compared to the other cosmics, but it's not an accurate depiction of him being more powerful than the IG.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
And he need not hurt Warlock when the purpose is to have a trial to allow Warlock and Eternity to make their case. Warlock was trying to stop the who trial. He stood face to face with the LT and said "HOW DARE YOU SEEK TO JUDGE ME!" and then attacked the court. LT stops his attack dead and Warlock goes, "HOW?"

If that was a mere IG attack that anyone can stop, Warlock wouldn't be going "HOW?"

I never said that anyone could stop it, because it wasn't a mere attack. It was a powerful one, powerful enough to blow the cosmics away. However, if Warlock would have focused his attack on the LT and attacked again, would the LT have been able to deflect that as easily? I don't know, and neither did the LT apparently based on his own statements. All we know by the attack is that it was powerful enough for the abstracts but not the LT. Warlock thought it was and was wrong. That's why he was surprised.

Originally posted by Juntai
The Buddah thing was just a parable, representing the fulitiy that Lucifer can never truly beat[escape] his maker, because Yahweh will always be his maker.

So would you say that Buddha is on Yahweh's side?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
The thing is when 616 Galactus died he turned into a star. Abraxas was freed and killed alternate Galactuses. Proof being he sent the skull of an alternate Galactus to the 616 Earth.

too much fun to leave alone . . . 😄

i'm not sure what your above comment is supposed to prove though. once again, i have no idea why there is any relevence regarding where the first galactus was killed by abraxas. it doesn't matter that abraxas went around some parts of the multiverse and killed galactuses. the problem originated in 616 and 616 is what needed fixing.

As for the focal point of the story, usually it's 616. But this story encomposed other universe. Abraxas was causing universes to merge and people like John Lennon were showing up in the 616 when he was suppose to be dead. The scene went, "imagine a world where John Lennon is as alive today as he was on the day he was killed. Where Nazi stormtroopers invade New York's City's Jewish diamond district." These were alternate versions showing up in the 616. Heck, the Nazi's were beating up the Jewish New Yorkers. Universes were merging because of Abraxas.

true, universes WERE merging . . . but they were awfully similar to 616. ironic that in the pf/tower scan (now that i can finally see it . . .), it says 616 is the PRIME universe . . . as has been shown, it is also unique in that it had the first galactus. seems that events in 616 really DO impact other universes . . .

I know it seems odd but it fits with comics. Black Bolt's just one guy and yet he could wipe out half the planet just opening his mouth. The you've got Surtur destroying a galaxy. A regular Skrull ship wiped out a half a solar system.

those feats are just a little different from destroying and recreating the entire multiverse though. i asked before -- does that include unmaking and remaking lt? clearly the hotu would have been included in the effect, as well as all the universes that did not NEED remaking. just doesn't make sense.

The UN is a bit of a mystery. But I understand what you're saying. Aside from Wolverine doing outrages things, artifacts from comics fit that as well. The Evil Eye allowed Dormammu to merge 616 with the Dark Dimension and the Eye can be considered sub-universal as well. Then you've got the cosmic cube which once allowed Thanos to take over 616 until it was retconned when the Cube Beings were. Then there's the Eye of Aggamotto...but that's another story.

compared to what you claim the UN did, those other feats are less than nothing. if you're right, it is clearly the greatest display of power ever in marvel -- more inclusive apparently that even what thanos did with the hotu -- which would also have been remade . . . right?

I can't tell you what the writer intended, not 100%. But they went as far as introducing Multiverse Eternity and Abraxas' plan was to merge/collaspe the Multiverse and was doing so.

fair enough and believe it or not i respect yours and masters interpretation, while at the saem time wholly disagreeing with it. that scan where reed is dying jus doesn't add up in your favor . . . 🙁 you really believe abraxas was killing reed in that scan and simultaneously killing the other reeds as well? i just can't see that . . .

which brings me to this: with an inspirational nod to illadelph, i've tweaked my own interpretation of events very slightly. maybe it will be enough for you to buy it?

i still say there is no way the whole multiverse was destroyed and remade. no chance, imo, too big a feat. however, it is clear that the 'infected' (for lack of a better term) universes (not ALL universes were infected though) were merging with 616. now, in keeping with my 616 remaking theory, how about this: when 616 was remade, the MERGED universes were ALL reset back to their 'norm'. in that way, the UN wasn't being 'selective' in its repairs but it DID affect only the merging universes, AND the multiverse was not remade. repairing 616 'unmerged' and fixed the merging/infected universes, which has the added bonuses of NOT having to remake the whole multiverse AND not affecting the universes that were fine already.

to me it sounds like the most plausible scenario and i am quite satisfied with it as an explanation. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
i could not possibly agree with you more, celestial. you've read the battle and interpretted it exactly the same way i did. the bio of lt seems to say that lt>ig. fine, i can accept that. perhaps that WAS marvel's intention, but in that confrontation (i posted scans of th whole thing a few pages back) i really don't see how anyone can claim lt was superior in that meeting. 😬

Sorry about the non-reply, leonidas. I missed this post the first time around and read it just now. Glad someone else out there sees the battle the way I did. I agree that Marvel can show right now that the LT is superior to the IG, and I will be fine with that, but I can't accept it right now based on this one confrontation.

Originally posted by leonidas
you said you don't think the ultraforce/avengers was canon -- that's where the gems were reunited (in direct opposition to lt's judgment and where the gem being came back) -- what makes you believe it wasn't canon? was it rtconned and i missed it . . .? 😕

I honestly don't know if it has officially been retconned or not. I just thought that all crossgen comics (even though I know Marvel had just bought Malibu) were regarded as non-cannon. That's why I said about there being no cannon occasion of the IG being fully formed after Warlock dispersed the gems.

If the creation of Nemesis is cannon, then that's not good for the LT since they worked together just fine despite the LT's ruling like you said. I'm just not sure if it's cannon or not. That's why I'm skeptical to use this in a debate.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So would you say that Buddha is on Yahweh's side?

dude, i hope you are intending to be obtuse. The Buddha example, was simply a reflection of Yahwehs and Lucifers relationship. Thats all.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Sorry about the non-reply, leonidas. I missed this post the first time around and read it just now. Glad someone else out there sees the battle the way I did. I agree that Marvel can show right now that the LT is superior to the IG, and I will be fine with that, but I can't accept it right now based on this one confrontation.

no worries, bro. 😉 we've BOTH had our plates full. since it's in the bio, i'll concede the point to lt. but i argued earlier that nothing in that confrontation proved it. on that point i agree whole-heartedly.

I honestly don't know if it has officially been retconned or not. I just thought that all crossgen comics (even though I know Marvel had just bought Malibu) were regarded as non-cannon. That's why I said about there being no cannon occasion of the IG being fully formed after Warlock dispersed the gems.

If the creation of Nemesis is cannon, then that's not good for the LT since they worked together just fine despite the LT's ruling like you said. I'm just not sure if it's cannon or not. That's why I'm skeptical to use this in a debate. [/B]

good enough. i'm not sure either which is why i brought it up sparingly also. ultraforce has been mentioned in www.marvunapp.com. is that a 'official' source of marvel info? if it is that would support your case.

meh, anyway, good luck changing the witchking's mind. 😉

Originally posted by leonidas
too much fun to leave alone . . . 😄

i'm not sure what your above comment is supposed to prove though. once again, i have no idea why there is any relevence regarding where the first galactus was killed by abraxas. it doesn't matter that abraxas went around some parts of the multiverse and killed galactuses. the problem originated in 616 and 616 is what needed fixing.

hey leon.

I'm saying this ...nicely... please answer me this..

If Abraxas manifested from another Eternity/Infinity outside 616...NOT 616.

Why do you persist in saying the problem originated in 616?
Unless your only talking about Galactus.

Fantastic Four Annual 2001...is when Abraxas first appeared...Outside 616...He even blasted a decapitated head of Galactus across Universes in order for that head to reach 616.

So Galactus died in 616...but Abraxas manifested Outside 616....Universes away.

I'm simply interested in how you see it now.

Oh and the only reason the Tower's location was first in 616...is because that's the only Tower that existed as a gateway to the doors of the Multiverse once the Interfaces were Aligned.

that's what Phoenix was used for...at the moment the Interfaces were Aligned, Phoenix was able to simultaneously create that same Tower in every universe VIA the Alignment. This then lead to a permanent connection between universes VIA the Tower which is the gateway.

616 is the prime location for everything though...because it's our Universe "supposedly" "the Mainstream Marvel universe".

But if what happens in 616 happens everywhere...what's the purpose behind those other universes if they don't have an existence of their own?

Respectfully awaiting your reply.

Originally posted by UniOmni
dude, i hope you are intending to be obtuse. The Buddha example, was simply a reflection of Yahwehs and Lucifers relationship. Thats all.

Mr.Master, i don't understand the beef.
In the scans, it pretty much shows that while the alignment enabled the tower, it was the power of the pf that made it possible to be permanently connected through the multiverse.

Is that not what the scans show?

Originally posted by Mr Master
You want to trully understand the Phoenix Force?

Check out WhiteWithcKing's wisdom on the whole PF existence and it's place in the hierarchy...then come back and tell me you agree with gs.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=410642&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=21

I have many issues that explain the power of the PF, if anything LT=PF as for top dogs in Marvel universe.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is appalling logic. Considering that its canon that Phoenix is reborn every creation cycle as the Big Bang thereby initiating said cycle id say the Force has just a little to do with this process. As stated by Galactus in Excalibur 61 and as verified by LT in Quasar 50, the universes of the multiverse are a closed system. At the time of creation all matter and energy that ever will be IS. There is no new energy produced there is just transition and transference. With that in mind, all energy within a reality originates from Phoenix. Yes the Celestials under Eternity’s orders helped encourage the advancement process by manipulating the genetics of early life, however life would not exist in the first place if it wasn’t for Phoenix. It is the power which spawns creation and therefore any and everything of creation:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18210411882.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13616261699.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509513950.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18512210966.jpg&s=f10

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509355229.jpg&s=x11

😆 More of the same old I see. Nothing new.

Again where does it show that:
- Phoenix is greater than LT
- Phoenix created the MU/Multiverse
- Phoenix is greater than the IG

The notions are the same throughout as you can see, regardless of the reality. After a realities end (which in the natural scheme of things is driven by her) Phoenix is reborn as the Big Bang which sets off creation anew. It is the very life force of reality. Without its involvement reality would be left a void:

So again, she is a part of the universal cycle. Genis created the big bang too. So where was the Phoenix then? I guess she was the insides of Entropy when his head exploded and the big bang created 616. And Genis gun was the SPARK OF CREATION.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
😆 More of the same old I see. Nothing new.

Again where does it show that:
- Phoenix is greater than LT
- Phoenix created the MU/Multiverse
- Phoenix is greater than the IG

So again, she is a part of the universal cycle. Genis created the big bang too. So where was the Phoenix then? I guess she was the insides of Entropy when his head exploded and the big bang created 616. And Genis gun was the SPARK OF CREATION.

http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fantasticfour532083ae.jpg
Eternitys thirst for knowledge is the spark.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The force initiates the cycle. As stated here it is both the beginning (The Big Bang) and the cycles end. The abstracts as stated on panel and in their bio entries came into being after the universe was formed. They embody universal concepts. Therefore Phoenixes manifestation as the Big Bang spawned the abstracts.

Show me WHERE ON PANEL does it say, "THE PHOENIX CREATED THE ABSTRACTS." Otherwise all you have is that she keeps the cycle going. She doesn't create the abstracts.

In their bio it never says the Phoenix Force created anything. Where are you getting this stuff from?

Well looks like TOAA created the Multiverse of the MU. Doesn't even say anything about the PF.
http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=livingtribunal14jr.jpg

Eternity and Infinty represent "ALL THAT IS." Where does the PF show up in this?
http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternity18pq.jpg

PF's own bio states that her birth place is the big bang. Can you point out where it says she's responsible for the abstracts or created the MU?
http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phoenixforce18cl.jpg

Theres just no getting around it. Youre right. Phoenix does play a part in the universal cycle by initiating it maintaining it before eventually ending it however a universe and its life isn’t the be all and end all of Phoenix. Life is spawned by Phoenix, not the other way around.

Life is spawned by the abstracts.

Eternity yet again is "ALL That is"

Reality is a creation of the Phoenix and she surveys it from beyond manifesting through avatars within if her work is threatened by that which is within her jurisdiction:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18512320669.jpg&s=f10

Notice Deaths words. “So that she may craft her chaos within and without.” The universal level is not the sum total of Phoenix and its duties.

A notion supported by the Phoenix in Excalibur #64 where she tells Rachel that yes she is of time and space but at the same time she also exists beyond it.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18512434275.jpg&s=f10

Here you have Death referring to creation as Phoenixes work. A work she couldn’t bear to see undone hence her use of the Jean Grey form

Reality is indeed spawned by the Phoenix power. As I have shown through scans not only of 616 but of various other realities, the Phoenix Force is the power which brings a reality into being (a point actually stated in one of the scans) it is the power that drives the cycle:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/741443489.jpg&s=x11

http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phoenixforce18cl.jpg

therefore any being, power or process that takes place within said cycle are made possible by Phoenix.

Where does it say that she made the MU and the abstracts? Your just grasping at straws. I guess others who created the big bang created the abstracts as well. 🙄

You keep trying to play down Phoenix and emphasize the fact that mankind is what actually replaces the abstracts every creation cycle and that it was the abstracts who brought about mankind and that’s all very true. However as Phoenix is the power which spawned the universe, which makes life possible in the first place that point is irrelevant. It initiates the cycle as stated and as we’ve seen its power sustains it. To top it off Phoenix as stated a number of times in said mini, is the power which realized the potential to mankind and actually made them a threat to the abstracts. If that’s not Phoenix bringing the cycle to an end then I don’t know. Regardless the point is stated many times on panel and even by the characters within the debated comic. [/B]

So now your claiming that the Phoenix Force is the source of power of the abstracts? Like I said, you're just grasping at straws and interpreting the marvel cosmos as if you see fit when no such thing cosmos like yours exist. Again where on panel does it say the fact that she help spark/renew an old universe mean she powered everything in it including the abstracts?

Down play what? Your exagerating you favorite character and shoving it in debates that she actually created the multiverse and that because she's the spark therefore she that makes the powers of the abstracts really hers. You lied to other posters and even convinced them that the abstracts where really bowing to Jean/PF.

Originally posted by celestialdemon
I'll combine these statements and explain them at the same time.

When Nebula and Thanos attacked the cosmics with an omnidirectional blast, they were ALL defeated in one panel like they were nothing.

What's your point? It just proves that none of them had the power to even stop an IG wielder. Where are you getting that it proves Warlock's was weaker.

When Warlock let out his blast, they were all blown away except for the LT (unfazed), Ziran the Celestial (still standing but obviously struggling), and possibly Lord Chaos (hard to tell if he was holding Ziran up or just flying back).

You're actually going to argue that this means Warlock's attack was weaker than Nebula or Thanos'. That Celestial would've last how long if LT not intervened? Beings above that Celestial were getting blast out of the court.

If Warlock was using the same amount of power to blast the cosmics away as Nebula and Thanos did, then no one (besides the LT possibly) would have been left standing. It is possible for someone to use the same attack twice with varying results depending on how much power they input into the attack.

Possibly the LT? He only raised his hand the that attack stop dead. It is possible the results vary except that Warlock didn't want the trial to continue. His intentions of stopping the trial were clear as he stated as much, "HOW DARE YOU SEEK TO JUDGE ME." Then attacks the court stating that HE/WARLOCK/I SHALL NOT TOLERATE SUCH AN EFFRONTERY."

Unless you seriously believe Warlock was going to stop him and let the trial continue after those words and actions?

Now, as for the attack not affecting the LT, again the LT was an unknown quantity to Warlock. Warlock didn't know his power level. Yes, he didn't know some of the other cosmics as well, but he knew the IG could defeat them since it already had. When Warlock first met the LT at the gathering, Eternity addressed the LT as a peer ("one of equal standing to another"😉. So, for all Warlock knew, the same amount of energy required to blow away Eternity should have been enough for the LT. He found out that it wasn't and was surprised. But that does not prove the LT's superiority to the IG. It just proves his superiority to the other cosmics.

Again, Warlock didn't even know all the cosmics. Yet he told them their combined might was NOTHING COMPARED TO THE FORCE THANOS WIELDS. This is before Warlock got ahold of the IG, he was able to gauge cosmics power. With the IG, he knew things ahead of time. How is LT any different from the rest of the cosmics he doesn't know?

Which means that the LT is more powerful than the other cosmics. It doesn't automatically equate to him being more powerful than the IG.

I never said it automatically equates him being more powerful. The Tribunal stopped an IG attack and restored order. He shut down and powered up and shut down the Gauntlet a second time.

The IG has reversed LT's attack/ruling or hurt LT when? Give me at least one instance where the IG affected the Tribunal in any way? If you don't have that, they how can you say the IG even an equal to the Tribunal. LT shut Warlock's attack down just by raising his hand.

Warlock said he had grown tired of Eternity. Eternity followed by saying he had grown tired of Warlock. While making this statement, Eternity is blinking away. After Eternity's statement, Warlock tells him to begone. The LT follows up with something like "as should we all be" and they disappear.

Never happened. Eternity was about to attack him (angry that he has no say in who gets to guard the gems) and Warlock snaps his finger removing Eternity from the court.

Eternity, later during Warlock Chronocles, showed up on a planet and argues over the new gem wielder as well. He even knew who Warlock was going to give his gems to and objects to Thanos being the new guarding the Reality Gem. Warlock again snaps his finger and Eternity was gone.

Didn't say it had to do with his look. It had to do with what he said. He said he had to determine whether or not Warlock deserved to keep the IG and whether or not he had the power to take the IG from Warlock if need be. He ruled against Warlock keeping it, but he never mentioned if he could take it from Warlock. All he said was that a battle between the two would destroy reality.

This is where I said I'll agree that he couldn't shut it down right away. The IG has yet to show it could do a thing to the Tribunal. Not a thing at all.

How can you say that the IG couldn't affect the LT in any way? He only felt its power once with one attack. That's like saying Odin couldn't affect Thanos based on his first attack not doing anything to Thanos.

Thing being would you consider Thanos a skyfather or on Odin's level when Thanos couldn't even hurt Odin at all? Great showing of durability for Thanos but it doesn't mean he's Odin's peer. He's below that. The IG did nothing to LT and even had it's attack stopped dead and it's weilder saying, "HOW?" If that attack was so weak, Warlock wouldn't have been astonnished and shut his trap so, as LT stated, "Eternity, present your case."

Only difference is they had a battle afterwards to prove otherwise. Warlock and LT didn't.

Yes. It proved that Thanos couldn't do a thing to Odin. LT raised his hand and killed an IG attack that was owning everybody except him. And Warlock shut up so the trial could begin. I've yet to see the IG's power abused like this.

No, neither one of them budged based on the energy they were releasing.

The energy came from the IG, not LT. I already addressed this.

Warlock flinched after the LT made him feel guilty for both of them having to destroy reality with the battle they were about to have. That's it.

None, which shows how powerful the LT is compared to the other cosmics, but it's not an accurate depiction of him being more powerful than the IG.

And the IG has showed the it is on the LT's level when? The many times it hasn't?

I never said that anyone could stop it, because it wasn't a mere attack. It was a powerful one, powerful enough to blow the cosmics away.

It's the Infinity Gauntlet. How is an omidirectional blast weaker than a focused attack? The space gem allows you to be anywhere along with the reality which allows you bend and do it as you will. How focus need one be when you wield an Infinity Gauntlet that allows complete control over time, space, reality, and power?

However, if Warlock would have focused his attack on the LT and attacked again, would the LT have been able to deflect that as easily?

Easily? It would take him some more effort I would still say easy. Just raising his hand his killed the IG's attack.

I don't know, and neither did the LT apparently based on his own statements.

All we know by the attack is that it was powerful enough for the abstracts but not the LT. Warlock thought it was and was wrong. That's why he was surprised.

He was surprised that LT could affect the Gauntlet's power, not because he misgadged his attack level. Otherwise he would have increased the level and continued his assault to prevent the trial from beginning.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
That sounds cool as hell. ✅

So Lucifer wanted to prove that he was greater than Buddha ? How come? I know that Lucifer had a love/hate relationship with Izanami of Japanese mythos, which was interesting, but what was Lucifer's dispute with Buddha exactly?