Phoenix Force vs a Multiversal Power......Phoenix get's Crushed!

Started by GalacticStorm35 pages
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing

The Celestials themselves "seeded all creation with the POTENTIAL to instigate the end" and "Earth is their fruition of their work. THE HUMAN RACE." According to Eternity, the Celestials created mankind. PF had nothing to do with it.

This is appalling logic. Considering that its canon that Phoenix is reborn every creation cycle as the Big Bang thereby initiating said cycle id say the Force has just a little to do with this process. As stated by Galactus in Excalibur 61 and as verified by LT in Quasar 50, the universes of the multiverse are a closed system. At the time of creation all matter and energy that ever will be IS. There is no new energy produced there is just transition and transference. With that in mind, all energy within a reality originates from Phoenix. Yes the Celestials under Eternity’s orders helped encourage the advancement process by manipulating the genetics of early life, however life would not exist in the first place if it wasn’t for Phoenix. It is the power which spawns creation and therefore any and everything of creation:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18210411882.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13616261699.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509513950.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18512210966.jpg&s=f10

The notions are the same throughout as you can see, regardless of the reality. After a realities end (which in the natural scheme of things is driven by her) Phoenix is reborn as the Big Bang which sets off creation anew. It is the very life force of reality. Without its involvement reality would be left a void:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509355229.jpg&s=x11

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing

This force is the "ressurection force." It's a part of the cycle not above it, not above the other cosmics.

The force initiates the cycle. As stated here it is both the beginning (The Big Bang) and the cycles end. The abstracts as stated on panel and in their bio entries came into being after the universe was formed. They embody universal concepts. Therefore Phoenixes manifestation as the Big Bang spawned the abstracts. Theres just no getting around it. Youre right. Phoenix does play a part in the universal cycle by initiating it maintaining it before eventually ending it however a universe and its life isn’t the be all and end all of Phoenix. Life is spawned by Phoenix, not the other way around. Reality is a creation of the Phoenix and she surveys it from beyond manifesting through avatars within if her work is threatened by that which is within her jurisdiction:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18512320669.jpg&s=f10

Notice Deaths words. “So that she may craft her chaos within and without.” The universal level is not the sum total of Phoenix and its duties.

A notion supported by the Phoenix in Excalibur #64 where she tells Rachel that yes she is of time and space but at the same time she also exists beyond it.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18512434275.jpg&s=f10

Here you have Death referring to creation as Phoenixes work. A work she couldn’t bear to see undone hence her use of the Jean Grey form

Reality is indeed spawned by the Phoenix power. As I have shown through scans not only of 616 but of various other realities, the Phoenix Force is the power which brings a reality into being (a point actually stated in one of the scans) it is the power that drives the cycle:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/741443489.jpg&s=x11

therefore any being, power or process that takes place within said cycle are made possible by Phoenix.

You keep trying to play down Phoenix and emphasize the fact that mankind is what actually replaces the abstracts every creation cycle and that it was the abstracts who brought about mankind and that’s all very true. However as Phoenix is the power which spawned the universe, which makes life possible in the first place that point is irrelevant. It initiates the cycle as stated and as we’ve seen its power sustains it. To top it off Phoenix as stated a number of times in said mini, is the power which realized the potential to mankind and actually made them a threat to the abstracts. If that’s not Phoenix bringing the cycle to an end then I don’t know. Regardless the point is stated many times on panel and even by the characters within the debated comic.

Now I don't know what to believe.

Originally posted by Mr. Universe
Now I don't know what to believe.

My head hurts. Someone needs to post new pretty scans. Im tired of seeing the same ones over and over lol.

Damn... that was some rant (glad i decided not to read it all .... 🙂 )

Phoenix is a kind of X-Men novelty...never appearing in any comics where the REAL cosmic beings r involved.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Damn... that was some rant (glad i decided not to read it all .... 🙂 )

You've heard it all before anyway. Nothing new. 😉

Originally posted by Wynndar
Phoenix is a kind of X-Men novelty...never appearing in any comics where the REAL cosmic beings r involved.

True enough although i resent that "REAL" comment!!!

...

...I think my eyes are bleeding.

Darkcrawler.....I've been trying to get onto Superherochat for a while. But the administrator won't activate my account. How did you get yours going?

I didn't have any problems with it. You are the third guy to ask me that 😄

I could try to post to the help board, I did that with two others...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dear oh dear Mr M yet again you have highlighted your inability to correctly pick up and comprehend information from on panel even in cases where the goings on are spelled out for readers. Can you not read the print of your own scans? Allow me to give you a walkthrough of them:

Allow you to yap your way through and confuse others...I think not.
This arrogant attitude you carry even though your WRONG is what gets to me.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You are quite right in saying the energy fields mergeD on their own, however as stated plain as day these energy fields only did this to form the energy matrix periodically (look it up). “The localized energy fields merged to create an energy matrix of awesome power, BUT THE ALIGNMENTS WERE TOO BRIEF AND INFREQUENT TO BE HARNESSED”

Yea I know this...I wrote this out for you in bold text too.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As stated Necrom despite this fact still longed for the power and so the wizards sought a way to permanently link these energy fields. Enter the Phoenix!!
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/5913134015.jpg&s=x402

Wrong!

Phoenix was able to make a duplicate of the Tower in every Universe simultaneously VIA the Interfaces that were Aligned across the Multiverse.

Any small time reality warper can to the same thing today, VIA the Interfaces when their Aligned.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
After many decades it was time again for this periodical alignment. As stated, on Earth 616 one of the dimensional interfaces was marked out by a tower . So when it came to the time of the alignment the Phoenix projected this tower ensuring it existed at the same point in every reality of the multiverse simultaneously, therefore ensuring each reality had a tower attuned to its realities dimensional interface. This resulted in the once periodically aligned energy fields becoming permanently aligned: “ Like a cosmic lynchpin threaded through the multiverse” The Phoenix basically took part in a cosmic sewing session with the tower being the needle and thread binding the matrix together.

Therefore when I said: “Phoenixs feat resulted in a permanently linked energy matrix which flows through the multiverse” I was very much correct.

Incorrect actually..and if you think your going to make me see anything else than what's on panel...your crazy...nice try. You've deceived many..but not me..never me.

First off it did not take decades for the Alignment to take place.

It took FERON decades to communicate with the Phoenix...which had nothing to do with the Interface Alignement...

This is the only reason that Necron wanted Feron involved in his scheme...to use the Phoenix's power to create a duplicate of the Tower on every universe simultaneously VIA the Interfaces Aligned...an IMPOSSIBLE FEAT for Phoenix without having EVERY Door(Interfaces Aligned)in the Universe open for her SIMULTANEOUSLY, for her to create that Tower...

EVERY Tower was created simultaneously...because as she created one Tower she created ALL the Towers in an instant...because the Multiversal Interfaces were Aligned...

Dude..it was the Tower that created the Cosmic Lynchpin not Phoenix..Phoenix was able to place a Tower in every universe VIA the Aligned Interfaces...had that Aligned Interface not existed...we would not be debating this right now...because Phoenix would NOT have been able to do this on her own.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You tried to make out that Merlyns jumping into the energy matrix saw that it was permanently linked. Nope.. Not only was it already established that the matrix could not be utilized before because of the temporary nature of its alignment but its also stated and depicted that Phoenix basically sewed the matrix together.

Interesting...so after Phoenix "sewed the matrix together"
Which is a LIE since the Matrix already existed TOGETHER WITHOUT Phoenix!

She did such a perfect job...that Merlyn decided to jump in to simulate a Great Adventure Ride....lol.

Again...Phoenix placed the Tower in every universe VIA the Aligned Interface and it was Merlyn that actually brought the Energy Matrix under control.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
After the permanent matrix had been established THEN it was possible for it to be utilized and for Merlyn to spend the decades he did fighting to gain control of the matrix.

Either you don't know what you talking about or...your lying.

No where does it say Merlyn lasted decades fighting to control the Matrix....LOL.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
A thing it was already established could not be done in the absence of a permanent matrix because “THE ALIGNEMENTS WERE TOO BRIEF AND INFREQUENT TO BE HARNESSED”. The alignments are what make up the matrix and yet youre trying to say the energy fields waited around in alignment for the decades it took for him to gain control of it?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

You see if you just would not LIE...we would be ok.

The Interface Alignment does make up the Energy Matrix, your not lying there.
“THE ALIGNEMENTS WERE TOO BRIEF AND INFREQUENT TO BE HARNESSED”
This is also truth.

And this is the LIE.
"yet youre trying to say the energy fields waited around in alignment for the decades it took for him to gain control of it"

No where in the entire book...does it say it took Merlyn decades or even ONE day to gain control of the Matrix.

Typical...you take facts and mix them with lies...pretty clever...to the untrained eye...you could easily deceive many...no wonder your ploy worked for so long.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The force initiates the cycle. As stated here it is both the beginning (The Big Bang) and the cycles end. The abstracts as stated on panel and in their bio entries came into being after the universe was formed. They embody universal concepts. Therefore Phoenixes manifestation as the Big Bang spawned the abstracts. Theres just no getting around it. Youre right. Phoenix does play a part in the universal cycle by initiating it maintaining it before eventually ending it however a universe and its life isn’t the be all and end all of Phoenix. Life is spawned by Phoenix, not the other way around. Reality is a creation of the Phoenix and she surveys it from beyond manifesting through avatars within if her work is threatened by that which is within her jurisdiction:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18512320669.jpg&s=f10

Notice Deaths words. “So that she may craft her chaos within and without.” The universal level is not the sum total of Phoenix and its duties.

A notion supported by the Phoenix in Excalibur #64 where she tells Rachel that yes she is of time and space but at the same time she also exists beyond it.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18512434275.jpg&s=f10

Dude if your so much into character statements nowadays...without action and what was that famous line you used to throw at me..

"unsupported on panel yip yap blah blah blah..."

Hilarious...lately ALL i've seen you do is post scans of nothing but TALK...and your basing Phoenix's Role..Position..and Power on TALK...from Death no less...a character's mouth.

Surely you must except this then too...now that your so atuned to JUST talk.

Beyonder is the Living Embodiment of Supreme Power according to Reed Richards...yep...that's the same guy you posted in a different scan saying Phoenix was the Big Bang...you took his words to heart then...how about now.

And here it's the WRITER/Narrator talking...not some character statement...the ACTUAL WRITER....surely you will also except this now too.
Beyonder is Millions of Times More Powerful than ALL the Rest of the Multiverse Combined.

I agree with GS, PF is equal to the living tribunal. That's how I feel the stories that I have read made me a believer.

http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ff531204tm.jpg Eternity creates 'the spark'.

Originally posted by Juntai
http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ff531204tm.jpg Eternity creates 'the spark'.

This is very interesting, i saw this some time ago, and thought that this totally contradicted the Pheonix Force idea.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
This is very interesting, i saw this some time ago, and thought that this totally contradicted the Pheonix Force idea.
I took it as being that Eternity wanted to understand itself, and that want, took place as Pheonix - 'the spark'.

http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fantasticfour532083ae.jpg

Originally posted by Juntai
I took it as being that Eternity wanted to understand itself, and that want, took place as Pheonix - 'the spark'.

http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fantasticfour532083ae.jpg

Makes sense, but then that shows that Pheonix is NOT the actual creator. Other panels have shown that "Pheonix is a child of the universe", while others portray her as the Spark of the Universe.

If Lucifer can create a universe, and Pheonix can only recreate a past universe, than it is more impressive on Lucifer's part since he made a universe from nothing, did he not ?

Space Bunny Rox!

😄

Originally posted by Juntai
I took it as being that Eternity wanted to understand itself, and that want, took place as Pheonix - 'the spark'.

http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fantasticfour532083ae.jpg

The light commeth to us all.