Phoenix Force vs a Multiversal Power......Phoenix get's Crushed!

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
More nonsense. Death said: "THE SUM AND SUBSTANCE OF ALL THAT LIVES." Not everything is considered living, including machines, Galactus, and the abstracts. Death never said she represents the universe. Where you got that I don't know. She represents life.

The big bang means what? The abstracts survive through the big bang. If you want to claim she created the abstracts on her own go ahead.

So Galactus isn’t considered living? That’s news to me and im sure just about every other seasoned comic reader around here. As outlined on panel and in their bios the abstracts came into existence after the universe was formed. They came about after the creation event and went on to embody universal concepts. They are of creation and therefore Phoenix being the power that ignites the creation cycle is responsible however indirectly for their creation. Your point about the machines is redundant as they’d still be made from matter derived from the Big Bang sonny.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Thanks for proving that she's part of the cycle and on the level of other cosmics. "The child is Phoenix. Living embodiment of [b]ONE OF THE PRIMAL FORCES

This is further backed up by "There is a NATURAL ORDER TO HER BEING, AS TO YOURS, AND ALL CREATION." She plays a role in all creation just as Galactus does. Where does it say that her destruction would result in Galactus' DIRECT destruction or that of the abstracts? It doesn't. Galactus would survive but without sustainess. He may die from the hunger but not because PF dies.

Yet again you've proven my point. She represents life. Her death would not directly affect Galactus who will exist "an Eternity in infinite void wherein not the smallest potential for life."

Remove Galactus and Abraxas shows up. Every body has a role in the cosmos. You've just proven that PF does not have control over the cosmics. If Eternity doesn't exist, guess what happens? Their wouldn't be a place for living things to exist on. Universe you want to argue that PF is the universe. [/B]

At the end of the day of course the Phoenix is a part of the cycle. She starts it off, she maintains it and her power under the natural scheme of things helps bring it to and end. You keep emphasizing her participation as if it somehow demeans my argument and strengthens yours. Sorry mate but not in the slightest. Yes Phoenix has a role to play in the cycle but at the same time there is more to her than just a universe. The abstracts embody universal concepts. Destroy a universe and by most accounts you’ll be told that’s the end of the abstracts. The same doesn’t hold true for Phoenix as it also simultaneously exists beyond reality. A void is the absence of life, of energy of matter. A void is what Thanos created in Marvel The End:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18716012965.jpg&s=f10

Without the Phoenix Force involved with the physical plane there would be nothing. You have to take into consideration also the time this was written. Now that in recent years Galactus’ origin has been tied to the Phoenix Force on panel and in their bios, now that its been actually stated that he was transformed by the Phoenixes power I think it’s a safe bet to say that if it was written nowadays that Phoenix cut all ties with the physical plane then Galactus would die.

As for Eternity not existing. You need to take into consideration that he is not literally the universe, he is its sentience a representation of its totality. As stated Eternity was formed AFTER the universe was created.Just to highlight this in Marvel The End, Thanos absorbed Infinity and Eternity, he then went on to absorb the stars and planets before everything became a void.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18716391155.jpg&s=f10

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18716012965.jpg&s=f10

The Phoenix Force however is the life force the very substance which makes and powers creation.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Now where on panel has it shown that her role in the universe is the most important? That she's actually the creator? And please don't bring up that scan in X-Men Forever and try to claim the abstracts were actually bowing before the PF.

Reality is outlined as her handiwork, she starts the cycle (as the Big Bang) she sustains reality with her energies, her avatars help the cycle along and her involvement steers the cycle towards its end. The Phoenix has been shown holding universes in her hand and casually amputating entire future timelines, of course the Phoenix is more important than any of the abstracts who are merely of the cycle.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
[QUOTE=6850277]Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
[B]Now you want to say that the BIO is JUST a guideline? You've used it against the IG to say the IG's power is merely from the PF's big bang.

As stated by the handbook creators the bios are just guidelines to continuity, they can get things wrong, As for the point about the IG ive asked the handbook writers for an issue reference where the IGs power source was mostly recently revealed and as soon as I get a reply, believe me you will be updated. I chose to accept the handbooks comments because as seen in the Avengers/Ultraforce crossovers the Infinity Being was retconned from a god responsible for the creation of 616 to just a powerful entity of 616 who had the power to control matter on a universal scale. This retcon, along with the slew of titles in recent years attributing the Big Bang to Phoenix set precedence for the handbooks comments.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
The funny thing about bios is that I've yet to see where in ANY OF IT is PF refered to as the creator of the Marvel multiverse (which it stated TOAA to be), that PF created the abstracts, or that she is more powerful than any of them.

And yet you’ve seen scans saying the abstracts came into being after the universe was created, scans showing Phoenix is responsible for the Big Bang of many realities, scans referring to reality as her handiwork and you’ve seen scans which show her holding 616 in the palm of her hand proclaiming the fixing of broken universes to be “Phoenix work” and yet not only do you deny she has anything to do with more than one universe but you fallaciously refuse to believe she’s greater than the abstracts.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Now your going to say it's guidline that needs to be debated. Well again I asked you, where is it shown that PF created the abstracts, the Marvel Multiverse, and is regarded as it's creator? Or that it is greater than LT.

If it states that the Phoenix is the power that spawns the cosmos, that she initiates the cycle of universes and that the abstracts come into being upon the formation of a universe, then regardless of how indirectly her power is without a doubt that which spawned the abstracts. There are scans which show there to be a Central Phoenix Consciousness which directs Phoenixes in the fixing of broken universes and there are scans which show the Phoenix power being credited for birthing a number of alternate realities. I have shown all of these. Make of them what you will but what cannot be credibly argued against is that as per current continuity the Phoenix is the power that ignites creation in the Big Bang and it as a power is not limited to the universal.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
You're basically trying to say the Phoenix of the White Crown is more than universal level. It still doesn't mean she created the multiverse...'less you try and tell me she's responsible for Multiverse Eternity as well.

For the White Crown Phoenix to be able to hold a universe in the palm of her hand it stands to reason that she is beyond any being or force of universal level. You may not agree that the Phoenix is the power that spawned the realities of the multiverse and that is your entitlement, however I have shown numerous recent scans from multiple titles depicting Phoenixes initiating many realities across the multiverse and scans showing a central Phoenix Consciousness.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
So true. And that's the benefit he has on this forum...his outrages claims and essays.

I just wish he showed up in the Comic Book Resources forum again and make these claims.

I think Pendaran and the moderators over their would get a kick out of banning his lying, fanboy ass. You should read Lord S's post in "Marvel Hierarchy" on Rumbles board of Comicbookresources. Quite interesting.

I ran into this two days ago. Galacticstorm calls himself "Phoenix Rising" at Comicbookresources. I thought it was a fun read.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=46969

Did a search of his name and this came up. LOL. Very funny.
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=114595

Two bans at one board. Tsk, tsk.

Ummm what the hell are you talking about? 😕

I am not and never have been a member of this CBR so dont try it boys. 😉

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
leo... Marvel Directory? ❌

The White Hot Room is currently pretty empty. The Phoenix pieces were scattered throughout the [b]universe IIRC. And Jamie Braddock can dance in and out of the WHR at his leisure. [/B]

Where was any of this stated? I dont know what fansite you got this information from but please keep it to yourself. ✅

Originally posted by Mr Master

AHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!!

This is AMAZING...

NOW PROSH and the STRANGER are WRONG...wait....AHAHAHAAHAAHAHA!!!!

You come out with their scans and the Death scan...ALOT of TALK...TALK.....TALK...

When WHAT their talking about goes your way....you use it as evidence and God's word...Phoenix is the only legimate threat....the "image" of cosmics bowing(which was the Stranger at this point)...blah blah blah.

Now your proven WRONG...and what do you say?

"In fact both he and the Stranger are wrong on a number of things as readers later found out"...these are the same guys your using in your defense....LOL...and it's all just talk anyway.

This is actually quite simple to address. Stranger and Prosh are not omniscient beings. They do not know everything. There understanding of the abstracts position in X-men Forever highlights their fallibility. However there comments pertaining to the Phoenixes role were supported by both Death and Eternitys and all of their comments with regards to Phoenix had precedence in previous titles and were supported in subsequent publications. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
What happen to the man who disputed my ON PANEL scan of Beyonder being Millions of Times More Powerful than the rest of the Multiverse Combined.....LOL
And mind you that was actually the narration column...not coming from a character's mouth...so it couldn't have been the Beyonder boasting...or does the Company and Writer boast too....then what's the point of believing ANY of it.

Here:
On panel...they actually drew the energy flow of ALL this power, coursing into his body while the narrator is explaining it...clearly.

But this is hyperbole and un-exceptable...AHAHAAHAHA!!!

Now... JUST a conversation between......WHOEVER....has to be excepted...Oh! wait....parts of the conversation that cater to you argument, must be excepted...parts of that SAME conversation that do NOT agree with, should be disregraded...mind you, JUST a conversation...no action...In Beyonder's scan atleast something is happening..

Again simply addressed. The comments made pertaining to Beyonder were actually contradicted numerous times on panel. (Please dont go off on a tangent and turn this into a Beyonder debate 🙄 ) With that in mind the comments cannot be taken as fact. With Phoenix she has been shown on panel being reborn as the Big Bang, she has been showing pulling off feats indicative of her rank and role. Thats the difference.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Too funny...

Oh and the same Reed that claimed she was the big bang is the same one making this claim...but he calls this hyperbole...but not when he was referring to the Phoenix as the big bang ofcourse.

Reeds comments about Phoenix being the Big Bang are in line with a multitude of others, plus the event was depicted on panel.

Again such comments pertaining to the Beyonder have been applied to tons of characters. Terms like supreme, unlimited, invulnerable are thrown around in comics like nobodys business and only a fool would take them literally in every case and only a fanboy would blindly accept them when applied to their fave character regardless of on panel evidence to the contrary. No worries though. 😄

Originally posted by leonheartmm
gs you poor poor *****.

Begone Smeagle -------->

😆

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where was any of this stated? I dont know what fansite you got this information from but please keep it to yourself. ✅

Now here's a question, would a simple electromagnetic pulse really scatter something beyond universe 616?

And as for the WHR, well you and I both know the WHR is Jaime Braddock's playpen. What screams multiversal power more than a half-naked man waltzing through your home?

was it ever said that no one other than an avatar could enter the whr? and i'd been led to believe the consciousness in the whr had fled . . .?

😕

Originally posted by leonidas
was it ever said that no one other than an avatar could enter the whr? and i'd been led to believe the consciousness in the whr had fled . . .?

😕

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are people supposed to be able to pull at the fabric of it's being? 😕

ummm . . .

😕

Originally posted by leonidas
ummm . . .

😕

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"The Force returned to Earth-616 once more and manifested itself within Jean Grey before she was seemingly killed by an electromagnetic pulse. This shattered the Force into billions of pieces."

Now here's a question, would a simple electromagnetic pulse really scatter something beyond universe 616?

And as for the WHR, well you and I both know the WHR is Jaime Braddock's playpen. What screams multiversal power more than a half-naked man waltzing through your home?

😆 Jamie is teh cosmic body.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
"The Force returned to Earth-616 once more and manifested itself within Jean Grey before she was seemingly killed by an electromagnetic pulse. This shattered the Force into billions of pieces."

Now here's a question, would a simple electromagnetic pulse really scatter something beyond universe 616?

Ummm when that happened the Jean Phoenix was manifested on the physical plane of 616 so that kinda makes your point redundant. 🙂

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
And as for the WHR, well you and I both know the WHR is Jaime Braddock's playpen. What screams multiversal power more than a half-naked man waltzing through your home?

Where was it stated that only Phoenixes could enter the White Hot Room? Grant Morrissons New X-men suggested it was a healing place for realities and that it was not only the origin point of all life (hence the Phoenix connection) but also the place the dead end up ultimately when the creation cycle comes to an end:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209545011.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18805012676.jpg&s=f10

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18805020642.jpg&s=f10

Grant Morrissons interpretation of Phoenix is continuity according to Greg Pak and shapes the course of his sequels to Endsong. That pleases me. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
was it ever said that no one other than an avatar could enter the whr? and i'd been led to believe the consciousness in the whr had fled . . .?

😕

By ignorant individuals with a score to settle and nothing but fansites to use as a last resort. ❌

I pity them. ✅

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are people supposed to be able to pull at the fabric of it's being? 😕

And what does this disprove? That the Phoenix simultaneously exists within creation and beyond time and space? ❌

That it has duties that are beyond the universal? ❌

That its manifestation on the physical plane creates realities? ❌

So just what are you trying to prove matey? 😕

Youre running on empty. Your journey on the bandwagon has come to an end. Time to jump back off and wait out the release of Phoenix Warsong. 😄

GS you handled your business as usual....👆
Alot of Mr.Masters claims and theories are pretty funny though...😆

The quote is from the Handbook entry on Phoenix 😕.

🤨 The only fansite info I've ever read on the Phoenix has been here on KMC, in the form of your essays.

I look forward to seeing how much more convoluted they can make a character in Warsong.

Frankie says relax.

Who's Frankie.....😠

Originally posted by Skeets
Who's Frankie.....😠