Why do you need Jesus Christ to be saved and go to Heaven?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
If you could really call it input.

"How do you know the Bible is true?"

"Because it says so"

"How does just saying so make it true?"

"Because it is the Bible"

"And how do you know the Bible is true?"

And so on and so on forever it seems.

Why ask why?

Just do what the Bible says to do relative to Jesus Christ and salvation. If Jesus is Who He says that He is then the Word will work. For instance, if you sincerely ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins and save you and He doesn't, then the Bible is not true. How do you know whether anything is true or not? The only way to know is to DO IT.

Why ask why? Is that a serious question?

If I asked you to jump off a cliff, would you just do it without wanting to know why?

What you are deviating form here is rationality. Asking 'why?' is a principle of intelligent behaviour.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Why ask why? Is that a serious question?

If I asked you to jump off a cliff, would you just do it without wanting to know why?

What you are deviating form here is rationality. Asking 'why?' is a principle of intelligent behaviour.

So.

I had rather assumed you wanted to present your case for Jesus as an intelligent and rational one.

After all, did you yourself not ask a 'why' when you made this thread?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why ask why?

Just do what the Bible says to do relative to Jesus Christ and salvation. If Jesus is Who He says that He is then the Word will work. For instance, if you sincerely ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins and save you and He doesn't, then the Bible is not true. How do you know whether anything is true or not? The only way to know is to DO IT.

What does that have to do with what I wrote?

Pretty much everything, if you read what I said.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I had rather assumed you wanted to present your case for Jesus as an intelligent and rational one.

After all, did you yourself not ask a 'why' when you made this thread?

Folks, if there is one thing that you all should no about me is that God did not call me to argue or debate with anyone or even attempt to prove anything.

This is not my assignment from the Father. My mission is simply to TEACH AND PREACH THE WORD OF GOD AND THE GOSPEL (good news).

As far as trying to present a case, rationality and all that other stuff, I will leave that to someone else. The bottom line is this: at some point in our discussion you will have to concede that what I am saying is based on the fact the GOD SAID IT IN HIS WORD AND NOT ON ANYTHING ELSE. This is the crux of the whole antagonism that goes on on this forum. However, I am not complaining, merely stating my point of view as I see it.

Again, I am not called to PROVE THE BIBLE, THAT JESUS CHRIST EVER EXISTED, OR ANYTHING ELSE. This is God's responsibility not mine.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why ask why?

Just do what the Bible says to do relative to Jesus Christ and salvation. If Jesus is Who He says that He is then the Word will work. For instance, if you sincerely ask Jesus to forgive you of your sins and save you and He doesn't, then the Bible is not true. How do you know whether anything is true or not? The only way to know is to DO IT.

Why ask why? Because I like to understand things. I am usually incapable of operating on blind faith.

The point is that I could never "sincerely" believe the Bible without some proof especially as there are things that are in it that go against my grain - not all of it, but some. As such I ask for proof, any proof, that the Bible is true - with proof, evidence, we can say yes/no to whether something is true, rather then just "hoping" it is - especially when it is apparently something as important as this (as you imply.)

The bottom line is this: at some point in our discussion you will have to concede that what I am saying is based on the fact the GOD SAID IT IN HIS WORD AND NOT ON ANYTHING ELSE. This is the crux of the whole antagonism that goes on on this forum. However, I am not complaining, merely stating my point of view as I see it.

No, that is the whole point - you are saying "God said it" I have no proof that is the case, and as such question the validity of the statement. In another thread you said how the Qu'ran is not divine - but it claims to be the word of God as well - what is the difference between the two, why is one the word of God and the other not?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Why ask why? Because I like to understand things. I am usually incapable of operating on blind faith.

The point is that I could never "sincerely" believe the Bible without some proof especially as there are things that are in it that go against my grain - not all of it, but some. As such I ask for proof, any proof, that the Bible is true - with proof, evidence, we can say yes/no to whether something is true, rather then just "hoping" it is - especially when it is apparently something as important as this (as you imply.)

No, that is the whole point - you are saying "God said it" I have no proof that is the case, and as such question the validity of the statement. In another thread you said how the Qu'ran is not divine - but it claims to be the word of God as well - what is the difference between the two, why is one the word of God and the other not?

Look Imperial Samura, forget it, go on and live your life. Why argue about it. If you don't believe that the Bible is God's Word then press on. You don't have to believe the Bible if you don't want to. Just keep on living your life to the fullest. Trust me...the Bible will bear itself out, God will be vindicated. Just go on with your life. I will continue to teach and preach to the rest of the world so that they don't suffer your fate.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Look Imperial Samura, forget it, go on and live your life. Why argue about it. If you don't believe that the Bible is God's Word then press on. You don't have to believe the Bible if you don't want to. Just keep on living your life to the fullest. Trust me...the Bible will bear itself out, God will be vindicated. Just go on with your life. I will continue to teach and preach to the rest of the world so that they don't suffer your fate.

A verbal/metaphorical slap to the face?

I didn't say The Bible wasn't God's word. What I was saying is that there is apparently no proof, beyond it's own claims, that it is. At which juncture I pointed out another Holy Book which also claims to be God's word and asked how could a person (say me) know which one was real (as opposed to the more logical proposition that neither is really genuine.)

It seems to me I am justified to ask such a question - when I am told something is the truth one of two things usually happen: a. If the person who has told me is someone I trust (as trust is earned over time and they have proven trustworthy) I will be inclined to believe them if it is something they would be able to tell the truth about (even if I trusted them if they said something like "you are made of soap" then of course I wouldn't.)

or

b. I ask for evidence/proof/a rational explanation. Now religion and people who evangelise for religion usually fall into the second category.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
A verbal/metaphorical slap to the face?

I didn't say The Bible wasn't God's word. What I was saying is that there is apparently no proof, beyond it's own claims, that it is. At which juncture I pointed out another Holy Book which also claims to be God's word and asked how could a person (say me) know which one was real (as opposed to the more logical proposition that neither is really genuine.)

It seems to me I am justified to ask such a question - when I am told something is the truth one of two things usually happen: a. If the person who has told me is someone I trust (as trust is earned over time and they have proven trustworthy) I will be inclined to believe them if it is something they would be able to tell the truth about (even if I trusted them if they said something like "you are made of soap" then of course I wouldn't.)

or

b. I ask for evidence/proof/a rational explanation. Now religion and people who evangelise for religion usually fall into the second category.

Look,

You cannot use that same rationale when it comes to God. You either believe or you don't believe. God is not playing games. If you choose not believe then that is YOUR CHOICE but you will have to live with the consequences of your decision for eternity (that is a long time).

If you choose to believe then you will reap all of the benefits that go along with believing. God will not change this fact for anyone--not even me. If I suddenly chose not to believe God, His Son, The Holy Spirit, the Bible, etc., then I will have to suffer the consequences of my disbelief for eternity as well.

God will never submit to anyone, ever, He doesn't have to. He is God whether we believe it or not. The Bible is God's Word whether you, me, or anyone else believes this or not. God will not bow or defer or cater to anyone's whim, caprice, or so-called rationalizations about Him. You either believe Him and what His Word says about Him or you don't.

It IS that cut-and-dried, black-or-white.

The world (you included) wants God to PROVE that He exists or that the Bible is His Word. You will literally be waiting until Hell freezes over. God doesn't have to prove anything to anyone at anytime. If you don't believe then press on. I already told you that God, His Word--the Bible--and every other Christian who has endured countless persecution, ridicule, abuse, scorn as a result of being a Christian will be vindicated.

This is the truth so help me God.

Just go on with your life Imperial Samura and anyone else that disbelieves that the Bible is God's Word. Just go about your life as though this conversation never took place. No need to have anymore discussions about God. Just believe what you want to believe about life.

The consequences of your actions will be upon your own heads.

JesusIsAlive
You seem, very strongly, to want people to get God's message.
Clearly, your method is having the opposite effect.
Why, then, do you persist in "spreading the Word" in a way which pisses people off and "closes ears"?
Apparently, spreading the Word really is not your aim.

Originally posted by Mindship
[B]JesusIsAlive
You seem, very strongly, to want people to get God's message.
Clearly, your method is having the opposite effect.
Why, then, do you persist in "spreading the Word" in a way which pisses people off and "closes ears"?
Apparently, spreading the Word really is not your aim. [/B]

That is your estimation not mine.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That is your estimation not mine.

I'm just stating the obvious.

Actually, I'd 1UP it to the painfully obvious.

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

😆 You joined just for this?

Originally posted by Dunhova
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

And again I mention, why doesn't he talk to us in coming here to visit once in a while like in the OT with the "Ark of the Covenant".........that god visited,..........If Jesus loved us so much, why hasn't he tried to be heard or make appearances?.............If god loved his only son to save the world...........and the word here is "LOVE'..........why hasn't he talked to us.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is not playing games.

God will never submit to anyone, ever, He doesn't have to. He is God whether we believe it or not.

The Bible is God's Word whether you, me, or anyone else believes this or not. God will not bow or defer or cater to anyone's whim, caprice, or so-called rationalizations about Him.

The world (you included) wants God to PROVE that He exists or that the Bible is His Word. You will literally be waiting until Hell freezes over. God doesn't have to prove anything to anyone at anytime.

You do realise that in the time it took you to write that sermon about how my soul is doomed you could have said "This is the evidence I have the Bible is true and the Qur'an is not" OR "No, I don't have any evidence, it is just believe it despite having no evidence, and because I believe it I can't believe the Qur'an despite the claims and amount of evidence being the same."

Still, I realise now that it is unfair and irrational of me to expect proof. What kind of souless monster am I? To actually use my brain and ask questions. I mean I must have been confused by the claim God is all good and loves us all and would try to save us and thus expected it wouldn't have been to much to ask for God to provide some proof if it would save countless people from the fires of Hell.

But now I realise God doesn't have to prove anything. Because he is God. He can do what he wants, no matter how unfair or unjust or irrational it seems. And if I want to be happy and saved I should just ignore that. That is what you are saying, yes?

If you don't believe then press on. I already told you that God, His Word--the Bible--and every other Christian who has endured countless persecution, ridicule, abuse, scorn as a result of being a Christian will be vindicated.

I can only hope that the countless people that Christianity has looked down upon over the years will also be vindicated (non-Chrsitians, gays, women, scientists etc.)

Speaking IS........Why hasn't Jesus shown himself like the god in the OT??......why would an almighty keep changing his view from the OT to the NT thought Jesus..............It is contradictory, though some think of him as THE GOD.........Why..........commit needless murders of infants and those that were not involved live stock?? Did the babies do something wrong (remember age of accountability)........the live stock.........are only that will no will.