Superman vs Juggernaut (no superspeed, no forcefield)

Originally posted by Up In Flames
😆 😆 😆 😆

quit talkin outta your ass... you're makin me laugh!

🤨

Avalon doesn't talk out of his ass about Superman or anything else for that matter. When he says Cyborg Superman is more versatile than Kal-El, rest assured he has a good deal of evidence to back that up unlike some others. Thanks to his access to kryptonian DNA, Cyborg Superman has all of Superman's powers as well as technokinesis and the ability to transfer his consciousness into any nearby machine.

Originally posted by TheKahn
🤨

Avalon doesn't talk out of his ass about Superman or anything else for that matter. When he says Cyborg Superman is more versatile than Kal-El, rest assured he has a good deal of evidence to back that up unlike some others. Thanks to his access to kryptonian DNA, Cyborg Superman has all of Superman's powers as well as technokinesis and the ability to transfer his consciousness into any nearby machine.

Thanks! Well said.

T-VO?

Superman would waste Jugger close up, he has all the abilities of classical jugs x100, ole crystal bhoy would get torn to pieces.

Originally posted by Maddox
T-VO?

Superman would waste Jugger close up, he has all the abilities of classical jugs x100, ole crystal bhoy would get torn to pieces.

Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I hope by "Cyborg" you are reffering to Metallo. "Cyborg" Superman is wayyyyyy beyond regular Supes in durability and would destroy Juggy in ways that would make Nimrod cry.

Thanks Kahn. You saved me the time of having to type all that. Good stuff!

Jugg's has gone against people in Superman League strength. Another testiment to his strength is the fact that in his bio it states him as having inmeasurable strength.
The reason some will argue that Jugg's does indeed have unlimted strength is because of his unlimited pushing power some wonder if he can use it to push then why not lift as well. The other reason is in Hulk story in an editors note they are asked who is stronger Hulk or Juggs. He said the general consensus was that Juggs was stronger because he can call upon the unlimited power of Cyttorak. These are reasons why people will say he can and does have unlimited strength. Are they concrete or stated on panel no but there is evidence for it and that can not be denied.

Originally posted by TheKahn
🤨

Avalon doesn't talk out of his ass about Superman or anything else for that matter. When he says Cyborg Superman is more versatile than Kal-El, rest assured he has a good deal of evidence to back that up unlike some others. Thanks to his access to kryptonian DNA, Cyborg Superman has all of Superman's powers as well as technokinesis and the ability to transfer his consciousness into any nearby machine.

I've read the "Trial of Superman" series, and all I saw Cyborg do was fire at Supes with all sorts of cannons and stuff... when Superman started getting physical with cy, teeth started flying out and gadgets were being torn off his body... i didnt see him "dodging at the speed of light" or "picking up very heavy objects and throwing them" or using "ice breath"... juggie could stomp him out in seconds!

comprende?

Originally posted by TheKahn

Do you have any on-panel evidence to back this up or is this just conjecture on your part? All the evidence I've seen puts Juggernaut in the 100 ton strength class around the level of Thor or the Hulk. And that is merely going by the characters he is able to hang with physically. Juggernaut just doesn't have that many strength feats when compared to Superman who has several that can only be described as insane. Lacking such evidence on the part of Juggernaut I'd be wary to say that he is stronger than Superman much less that he has the potential to have infinite strength. 😬

In one of the xmen issues, juggie threw the gem into space and it stayed there... it takes escape velocity to achieve that (resisting gravity) which is 25,000 miles per hour, equivalent to 11,111 metres per second (do the math), lets say the arc along which juggie swings his arm when throwing it is 3m, we can use the formula below to calculate acceleration:

vf^2 = vi^2 + 2aS

vf=11 111m/s, vi=0m/s, S=3m

"a" will be calculated to be 20,576,131 m/s^2

then using the formula: F=ma (lets say the gem weighs 100g),
F is 2,057,613N, which is equivalent to 209 tons...
that explains that his strength is greater than 100 tons

going further, let me explain how he is able to exert much more force than that...

strength, in bodybuilding terms, is defined as one's capacity for physical resistance... the amount of physical stress one can tolerate...
thor swings his hammer (lets say it weighs 5kg) at light speed (300 000 000 m/s) for a distance of 2m (arc distance travelled by his arm when swinging), we can calculate force, F:

vf^2 = vi^2 + 2aS

vf = 300 000 000 m/s, vi = 0, S = 2m

a = 2.25x10^16 m/s^2

F=ma

m=5kg, a= 2.25x10^16 m/s^2

F= 1.127 x 10^17 N, equivalent to 1.14 x 10^13 tons!!

may i add that the juggernaut never moved when he was hit by this much force, indicating that he is able to exert a force of 114000000000000 tons!

let me also tell you that he is capable of pressing/lifting extremely heavier weight than superman can.

now aint that some stats for your ass...

Originally posted by Maddox
T-VO?

Superman would waste Jugger close up, he has all the abilities of classical jugs x100, ole crystal bhoy would get torn to pieces.

psychic attack is supermans only chance...

Originally posted by Up In Flames
In one of the xmen issues, juggie threw the gem into space and it stayed there... it takes escape velocity to achieve that (resisting gravity) which is 25,000 miles per hour, equivalent to 11,111 metres per second (do the math), lets say the arc along which juggie swings his arm when throwing it is 3m, we can use the formula below to calculate acceleration:

vf^2 = vi^2 + 2aS

vf=11 111m/s, vi=0m/s, S=3m

"a" will be calculated to be 20,576,131 m/s^2

then using the formula: F=ma (lets say the gem weighs 100g),
F is 2,057,613N, which is equivalent to 209 tons...
that explains that his strength is greater than 100 tons

going further, let me explain how he is able to exert much more force than that...

strength, in bodybuilding terms, is defined as one's capacity for physical resistance... the amount of physical stress one can tolerate...
thor swings his hammer (lets say it weighs 5kg) at light speed (300 000 000 m/s) for a distance of 2m (arc distance travelled by his arm when swinging), we can calculate force, F:

vf^2 = vi^2 + 2aS

vf = 300 000 000 m/s, vi = 0, S = 2m

a = 2.25x10^16 m/s^2

F=ma

m=5kg, a= 2.25x10^16 m/s^2

F= 1.127 x 10^17 N, equivalent to 1.14 x 10^13 tons!!

may i add that the juggernaut never moved when he was hit by this much force, indicating that he is able to exert a force of 114000000000000 tons!

let me also tell you that he is capable of pressing/lifting extremely heavier weight than superman can.

now aint that some stats for your ass...

BFR.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
I've read the "Trial of Superman" series, and all I saw Cyborg do was fire at Supes with all sorts of cannons and stuff... when Superman started getting physical with cy, teeth started flying out and gadgets were being torn off his body... i didnt see him "dodging at the speed of light" or "picking up very heavy objects and throwing them" or using "ice breath"... juggie could stomp him out in seconds!

comprende?

Right..... 😆

Borg would laugh at juggernaut. Juggy could never hope to match Borgs versatility, or firepower.

Next you'll tell us that Juggy can whoop Thanos too!

Maybe its a combination of his momentum and his own considerable strength, but Juggy has owned people in the Superman class. Many a time. And yeah, if Juggy met Thanos, i'd expect him to beat the guy in a hand to hand match. But that would be Thanos jobbing, imo.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Maybe its a combination of his momentum and his own considerable strength, but Juggy has owned people in the Superman class. Many a time. And yeah, if Juggy met Thanos, i'd expect him to beat the guy in a hand to hand match. But that would be Thanos jobbing, imo.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
In one of the xmen issues, juggie threw the gem into space and it stayed there... it takes escape velocity to achieve that (resisting gravity) which is 25,000 miles per hour, equivalent to 11,111 metres per second (do the math), lets say the arc along which juggie swings his arm when throwing it is 3m, we can use the formula below to calculate acceleration:

vf^2 = vi^2 + 2aS

vf=11 111m/s, vi=0m/s, S=3m

"a" will be calculated to be 20,576,131 m/s^2

then using the formula: F=ma (lets say the gem weighs 100g),
F is 2,057,613N, which is equivalent to 209 tons...
that explains that his strength is greater than 100 tons

going further, let me explain how he is able to exert much more force than that...

strength, in bodybuilding terms, is defined as one's capacity for physical resistance... the amount of physical stress one can tolerate...
thor swings his hammer (lets say it weighs 5kg) at light speed (300 000 000 m/s) for a distance of 2m (arc distance travelled by his arm when swinging), we can calculate force, F:

vf^2 = vi^2 + 2aS

vf = 300 000 000 m/s, vi = 0, S = 2m

a = 2.25x10^16 m/s^2

F=ma

m=5kg, a= 2.25x10^16 m/s^2

F= 1.127 x 10^17 N, equivalent to 1.14 x 10^13 tons!!

may i add that the juggernaut never moved when he was hit by this much force, indicating that he is able to exert a force of 114000000000000 tons!

let me also tell you that he is capable of pressing/lifting extremely heavier weight than superman can.

now aint that some stats for your ass...

That's a good feat for Juggy, but the only problem is that
1. Superman has thrown a mile long ship into orbit which is slightly heavier than a 100g gem.
and
2. Juggernaut is mystically empowered to be invulnerable and unstoppable once he has some momentum, so it isn't a measure of strength when he is able to resist a force but merely a function of his power set. That being said, has it ever been shown that Thor has hit Juggy while swinging Mjolnir at lightspeed? 😕

And on a related note, you do have to be slightly wary when you mathematically extrapolate such feats as the same usually hasn't been done by the writers themselves. Much like Thor lifting the Midgard Serpent (who supposedly weighed the same as the earth) or Superman being able to hold a black hole in his hand, there just isn't any evidence to show that the writers realized exactly how much strength it would actually require for Juggy to throw his gem into orbit as he really hasn't been portrayed as class 114,000,000,000,000. 😬 Honestly, if the writers wanted Juggernaut to have unlimited strength they would have mentioned it in the comics by now.

Originally posted by newjak86
The poblem with Khan's testiment is while it is true Jugg's one of those characters that you must rely on who he fights instead of what he lifts. Can you name a darksied lfiting feat where he uses his strength to lift someone how about Orion. I'll also throw in Odin Cyborg Supes as I recal none really possess any lifting feats why because as characters they aren't required or have the number of comics about them to have them. Another is Asmodel. Then how do we gauge these beings ans say they are Superman level or higher oh wait they fight people or have gone toe to toe with people that are Superman strong.

Jugg's has gone against people in Superman League strength. Another testiment to his strength is the fact that in his bio it states him as having inmeasurable strength.
The reason some will argue that Jugg's does indeed have unlimted strength is because of his unlimited pushing power some wonder if he can use it to push then why not lift as well. The other reason is in Hulk story in an editors note they are asked who is stronger Hulk or Juggs. He said the general consensus was that Juggs was stronger because he can call upon the unlimited power of Cyttorak. These are reasons why people will say he can and does have unlimited strength. Are they concrete or stated on panel no but there is evidence for it and that can not be denied.

Which is why I have no problem putting him in the 100 class range with Thor or the Hulk. You're right that many characters don't have the typical lifting feats with which we can measure their level of strength so we must depend on who they normally match up with in fights. And there is a world of difference between immeasurable and unlimited. That being the case, I would still have a very difficult time in accepting the fact that Juggernaut does unlimited strength without some on panel proof. The guy has been around for a while and his powers are pretty well defined. If he actually did have unlimited strength you would think it would have been mentioned in some form by now. And of course it is very difficult to deny as anyone would have a very difficult time proving a negative. Which is why I've always viewed the matter as if you or I are going to claim for a character what is essentially a new power, then the responsibility rests with us to produce concrete on panel proof to back it up. Otherwise it just conjecture and arguing conjecture makes for a poor debate, imo.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Which is why I have no problem putting him in the 100 class range with Thor or the Hulk. You're right that many characters don't have the typical lifting feats with which we can measure their level of strength so we must depend on who they normally match up with in fights. And there is a world of difference between immeasurable and unlimited. That being the case, I would still have a very difficult time in accepting the fact that Juggernaut does unlimited strength without some on panel proof. The guy has been around for a while and his powers are pretty well defined. If he actually did have unlimited strength you would think it would have been mentioned in some form by now. And of course it is very difficult to deny as anyone would have a very difficult time proving a negative. Which is why I've always viewed the matter as if you or I are going to claim for a character what is essentially a new power, then the responsibility rests with us to produce concrete on panel proof to back it up. Otherwise it just conjecture and arguing conjecture makes for a poor debate, imo.

The only reason I can think of as to why they haven't simply flat out stated him to be unlimited was because Marvel didn't want to give him the title and weaken Hulk's claim to be the strongest person ever.

Although I'm not stating he does in fact have it but there does exist some evidence for it as stated before about the editor and unlimited pushing power and as I said it isn't concrete but it is there.

The only other problem with trying to say he has a definitve set level is that back in the Classic days he didn't have very many appreances so when he stepped up he really has shown many different aspects of himself and he seemed to show something new everytime. Only when he was starting to get depowered was when he started to get alot of showing time in comics.

Originally posted by newjak86
Very well put and I think he has been around enough and fought enough high class people to believe he has unlimited strength as he never seemed to have trouble with any weight he tried to move or to match strength with these people.

The only reason I can think of as to why they haven't simply flat out stated him to be unlimited was because Marvel didn't want to give him the title and weaken Hulk's claim to be the strongest person ever.

Although I'm not stating he does in fact have it but there does exist some evidence for it as stated before about the editor and unlimited pushing power and as I said it isn't concrete but it is there.

The only other problem with trying to say he has a definitve set level is that back in the Classic days he didn't have very many appreances so when he stepped up he really has shown many different aspects of himself and he seemed to show something new everytime. Only when he was starting to get depowered was when he started to get alot of showing time in comics.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Wasn't he trapped under a mountain... 😕

If he has infinite strength though he should be able to flick the likes of Thor on the forehead with his pinky and KO them... 😕

without super speed superman gets stomped unfortunetly for him juggernaut is just as invulnerable without the forcefield and superman's invulnerability ends at doomsdays spikey bones and superman can feel pain juggernaut can't so

Juggernaut wins