Silver Surfer vs Doomsday

<<Omega Beams = cheap shot.>>

cheap shot or no, the effects were what mattered. could he have eluded them? maybe. could he have countered with a blast of his own? maybe. and don't forget this was a weakened darkseid. regardless, it's the effect of the blast that matters. ss was badly injured. dd was knocked down (also a cheap shot) then got up and beat darkseid down. read hunter/prey and see for yourself what darkseid thought of dd. or check out the scans in dd v thanos.

i honestly don't see ss having a chance in here EXCEPT by removing dd which i said already i (personally) don't count as a victory but rather as a delaying tactic.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Is that really fair? Everyone says that Superman can simply chuck people into orbit for a win.

Using this logic, Juggernaut, Mindless Hulk, and quite a few other characters are made virtually undefeatable. Is that what you mean to imply?>>

not sure what you're getting at, cube. throwing someone into orbit is silly, and not something i'd ever use in a debate. teleporting someone away isn't a win either.

as far as dd's evolution and it's substantiation -- in his highest form he hasn't been beaten, so who's to say WHAT he's capable of. he APPEARED immune to a blast that killed a more powerful (older) superman and he was able to easily defeat many gog's simultaneously. again, the limits of dd's evolution remain unknown. as far as why he DE-volved after he was killed by imperiex, that is still unclear. check out the doomsday v thanos thread for some interesting theories.

Not saying that you've done it, leo, but plenty have, and according to the forum rules, it's legit.

Originally posted by leonidas
as far as dd's evolution and it's substantiation -- in his highest form he hasn't been beaten, so who's to say WHAT he's capable of. he APPEARED immune to a blast that killed a more powerful (older) superman and he was able to easily defeat many gog's simultaneously.

He appeared immune? How so? Did this apparent immunity follow or precede his being blasted to death by Imperiex? Expound, please.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Omega Beams = cheap shot.>>

cheap shot or no, the effects were what mattered. could he have eluded them? maybe. could he have countered with a blast of his own? maybe. and don't forget this was a weakened darkseid. regardless, it's the effect of the blast that matters. ss was badly injured. dd was knocked down (also a cheap shot) then got up and beat darkseid down. read hunter/prey and see for yourself what darkseid thought of dd. or check out the scans in dd v thanos.

i honestly don't see ss having a chance in here EXCEPT by removing dd which i said already i (personally) don't count as a victory but rather as a delaying tactic.

Has it ever been made clear that Darkseid's physical condition affects the potency of the Omega Effect. Heck, Surfer had been blasted by Galactus before suffering the Omega effect, so he was quite weak himself.

I think that there is a chance of victory.

<<He appeared immune? How so? Did this apparent immunity follow or precede his being blasted to death by Imperiex? Expound, please.>>

it followed. and by immune i mean he was unaffected by gog's attacks -- again, attacks that killed amore powerful superman. the linear man also said to darkseid that dd has the ability to evolve beyond any opponent. scans on pg4 of dd v thanos.

and i don't personally think darkseid's physical well being would affect the potency of the omega beams, but someone 'round here suggested it might so i thought i'd go with it because it sounded good!

😄

Originally posted by leonidas
<<He appeared immune? How so? Did this apparent immunity follow or precede his being blasted to death by Imperiex? Expound, please.>>

it followed. and by immune i mean he was unaffected by gog's attacks -- again, attacks that killed amore powerful superman. the linear man also said to darkseid that dd has the ability to evolve beyond any opponent. scans on pg4 of dd v thanos.

and i don't personally think darkseid's physical well being would affect the potency of the omega beams, but someone 'round here suggested it might so i thought i'd go with it because it sounded good!

😄

It's all rather complex...

Is it your belief that when Doomsday is defeated by a certain means, that when he returns he will be totally immune to the means by which he was defeated, or resistant to a certain degree?

Another thing.

Wasn't Doomsday sentient when he fought Gog's army?

Hadn't Superman been fighting Gog's army for quite some time before Doomsday stepped in and fought alongside him? Superman had to have been very weak when he suffered the blast that killed him. The fact that Doomsday withstood a blast that killed a weakened Superman doesn't necessarily mean that Doomsday had become immune to blasts altogether.

Doomsday lost to Superman, and from what I heard, SS can wail on Superman...

Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
Doomsday lost to Superman, and from what I heard, SS can wail on Superman...

They're talking about Hunter/Prey Doomsday. He's a whole 'nother monster.

Damnit leo! 😠

He left. 🙁

<<Is it your belief that when Doomsday is defeated by a certain means, that when he returns he will be totally immune to the means by which he was defeated, or resistant to a certain degree?>>

i tend to think the latter. i think the idea is he can evolve beyond a certain enemy - ie - (and this is all speculation) he could be killed bby an energy blast from x, but when he returns, it would require a blast GREATER than x's to kill him. dd has been killed by imperiex and weathered the omega effect, so to me it seems reasonable to say thanos or ss's blasts wouldn't be enough to kill him. his strength is also far beyond supes'.

as far as whether supes was weakned when he was killed by gog -- i don't think so. jinzin actually posted the battle scans somewhere. maybe he remembers where. in any event, he could answer the question better than i can because he actually has the books and has good knowledge of the arc itself.

when talking about dd, much is left to speculate. in his ultimate form though, he IS sentient, brilliant i think, and has not been defeated. there has also benn nothing yet to show there is a limit to his ability to evolve. perhaps when his tale is all told, i'll be proven wrong or a limit will be set. as of now, there is no reason to think the ultimate wouldn't be a match for thanos.

Originally posted by leonidas
<<Is it your belief that when Doomsday is defeated by a certain means, that when he returns he will be totally immune to the means by which he was defeated, or resistant to a certain degree?>>

i tend to think the latter. i think the idea is he can evolve beyond a certain enemy - ie - (and this is all speculation) he could be killed bby an energy blast from x, but when he returns, it would require a blast GREATER than x's to kill him. dd has been killed by imperiex and weathered the omega effect, so to me it seems reasonable to say thanos or ss's blasts wouldn't be enough to kill him. his strength is also far beyond supes'.

as far as whether supes was weakned when he was killed by gog -- i don't think so. jinzin actually posted the battle scans somewhere. maybe he remembers where. in any event, he could answer the question better than i can because he actually has the books and has good knowledge of the arc itself.

when talking about dd, much is left to speculate. in his ultimate form though, he IS sentient, brilliant i think, and has not been defeated. there has also benn nothing yet to show there is a limit to his ability to evolve. perhaps when his tale is all told, i'll be proven wrong or a limit will be set. as of now, there is no reason to think the ultimate wouldn't be a match for thanos.

Didn't Superman defeat sentient Doomsday? 😬

sentient, but not really intelligent. more on the edge of BECOMING intelligent. which is another thing -- after imperiex dd came back but seemed less powerful, HOWEVER, he did evolve in terms of his intelligence. after that evolution, the NEXT dd was the ultimate -- at least for the moment.

Originally posted by leonidas
sentient, but not really intelligent. more on the edge of BECOMING intelligent. which is another thing -- after imperiex dd came back but seemed less powerful, HOWEVER, he did evolve in terms of his intelligence. after that evolution, the NEXT dd was the ultimate -- at least for the moment.

Ultimate DD defeated Gog's army?

an army of gogs... yes...

don't you remember anything from our colossal debate? 🙁

Originally posted by jinzin
an army of gogs... yes...

don't you remember anything from our colossal debate? 🙁

You mean Gog's army, right?

By "an army of Gog's" you mean an army belonging to Gog. Of course.

I wasn't here for the 'colossal debate'. 🙁

I still say, attack the source of DD's power, attack that which enables him to evolve and reincarnate. That's what Bats would do...well, at least try to do 😖hifty:

<<You mean Gog's army, right?>>

no, he means an 'army of gog's' via his ability to manipulate hyper-time, gog kept bringing more and more versions of himself against dd -- not that it was doing him much good . . .

Can Doomsday fly?😬

I doubt it but I'm too lazy to get my book and find out.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
You mean Gog's army, right?

By "an army of Gog's" you mean an army belonging to Gog. Of course.

I wasn't here for the 'colossal debate'. 🙁

I mean an army of friggin gogs..... hundreds to thousands of gogs coming from multiple instances of time to one single present...

and yes you were.. the one we had back in the thanos verus dd thread.. a lot of what's being discussed here seems to have already been covered in that thread...

Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
Can Doomsday fly?😬

I doubt it but I'm too lazy to get my book and find out.

not yet.... but he does jump over miles of distance like hulk...