Originally posted by Alliance
Yes. So if the universe started from something...it can't be infinite.
That doesnt matter, there had to be something there to start the universe, and for whatever that thing that started the universe off, there needed to be something to exist before that. It is impossible for the universe to exist if at some point nothing existed it doesnt matter if only electromagnetic energy existed there was still something.
Originally posted by Alliance
I'm confused. Something comes from something. Something can never come from nothing. It is not possible for "the universe to exist if at some point nothing existed." Explain how that could be true?
I know what I mean but im not sure how to explain it. You said the universe started from something. That thing that created the universe could be considered to be the universe in a different form. At any rate there was something there to create the universe.
The problem - as always when we discuss this stuff - is that language fails us. Obviously, there had to be Something from which everything derives. We can call this Something the Multiverse, God, Infinite Regression, the Ultimate Ground, First Cause, Potentia, Barney, Gytemfl, etc, etc, whatever, it doesn't matter. You can even call it "Nothing" (as long as you're not defining Nothing as that abstract absolute cuz then your statement becomes an exercise in self-contradiction, nothing more).
Whatever it is, Something Always Was. Obviously.
Originally posted by Alfheim
That doesnt matter, there had to be something there to start the universe, and for whatever that thing that started the universe off, there needed to be something to exist before that. It is impossible for the universe to exist if at some point nothing existed it doesnt matter if only electromagnetic energy existed there was still something.
Ahem, His Name is God, the self-existent, eternal One. He is the First Cause. All causation stops with (or should I say starts with God).
Originally posted by Alfheim
That doesnt matter, there had to be something there to start the universe, and for whatever that thing that started the universe off, there needed to be something to exist before that. It is impossible for the universe to exist if at some point nothing existed it doesnt matter if only electromagnetic energy existed there was still something.
Why dose there have to be something to start the universe? What if the universe was eternal, with no beginning and no end? Imagine a ring, where is the beginning of the ring, or the end?
Originally posted by Storm
If God could exist without a cause then so can the universe. That is, if
God can be self-caused (or exist without a cause), and then have caused the universe, so is the argument that the universe may be self-caused (or exist without a cause), and therefore be not caused by God, equally valid.
I beg to differ. God is a Personage Who has revealed Himself as it were through creation. We can see God's invisible attributes. We can perceive His appreciation for aestheticism. We can see His wisdom, intelligence, and great power over material and immaterial things. The universe is not a person it is a system. I do not believe that there is a parallel between a Person (God) and an impersonal system.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I beg to differ. God is a Personage Who has revealed Himself as it were through creation. We can see God's invisible attributes. We can perceive His appreciation for aestheticism. We can see His wisdom, intelligence, and great power over material and immaterial things. The universe is not a person it is a system. I do not believe that there is a parallel between a Person (God) and an impersonal system.
You can also, just as easily, see the universe as not being created, but having always existed.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why dose there have to be something to start the universe? What if the universe was eternal, with no beginning and no end? Imagine a ring, where is the beginning of the ring, or the end?
Well actually thats what I was trying to say.... 😮
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Ahem, His Name is God, the self-existent, eternal One. He is the First Cause. All causation stops with (or should I say starts with God).
😐
Dont know if I can be even bothered to talk to you.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I also think that if something is eternal that implies it is infinite as well...
I agree, if in reverse. Many seem to qualify infinity, especially infinity as it might apply to space or energy. But Infinity--in its broadest sense--is infinite in every imaginable and unimaginable way, which would certainly include time (ie, eternity).
Originally posted by Mindship
I agree, if in reverse. Many seem to qualify infinity, especially infinity as it might apply to space or energy. But Infinity--in its broadest sense--is infinite in every imaginable and unimaginable way, which would certainly include time (ie, eternity).
Its a good thing you're here. 😄
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I beg to differ. God is a Personage Who has revealed Himself as it were through creation. We can see God's invisible attributes. We can perceive His appreciation for aestheticism. We can see His wisdom, intelligence, and great power over material and immaterial things. The universe is not a person it is a system. I do not believe that there is a parallel between a Person (God) and an impersonal system.