So send me the emai! You've been at it with me for a little over half an hour, you could have sent it already instead of arguing. And all of these techniques are what exactly Lightsnake? I want your argument, not bullshit text from a source book stating "Oh he knew everything". That doesn't say much for what you're arguing, so tell me what techniques he DID have, and the ones that would help him in a VERSUS Fight with more powerul force users.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So send me the emai! You've been at it with me for a little over half an hour, you could have sent it already instead of arguing. And all of these techniques are what exactly Lightsnake? I want your argument, not bullshit text from a source book stating "Oh he knew everything". That doesn't say much for what you're arguing, so tell me what techniques he DID have, and the ones that would help him in a VERSUS Fight with more powerul force users.
Hate to interrupt, but Sidious can control the intensity and power of his Force Storms. He can even control the nature of them as well.
For example, he can use his Force Storms to vaporize massive fleets, or control the constitution of said storm so where it actually teleports its target to a chosen destination.
As Nai himself once asked, what if Sidious just put them in orbit?
1. You don't have an email address.
2. I gave you a link tot he site, find it your own damn self.
3. Sourcebooks are valid, according to Dan Wallace who came to this forum for a small time...as valid as books or comics. Sorry, but the sourcebooks? They work.
What techniques DID he have? Everything. End of story. Morichro, Malacia, force lightning, his own creations, force pulse, force speed, plague, horrors, choke...you name it, he had it
And I can say the same thing for the ancient sith too, considering it is more logical for them to know everything that Sidious already knew, as opposed to some MORE ambiguous text about Sidious, where you base your entire argument on. I don't even know how you can use the text as part of your debate lightsnake. But sure, the ancient sith knew everything Sidious knew, and more..
And how can Sidious know everything that the ancient sith knew? Please tell me what they meant by "everything" in terms of Sidious? Everything according to the PT times, the ancient times, overall? Oh wait, you're arguing with an ambiguous statement. And I know what the NEC says, I have it lightsnake. Ragnos is also "The most powerful of the most powerful", what's your point? Suddenly the Ragnos statement is useless and the Sidious statement is fact? Please explain what they mean by "most powerful in history". If you mean tactically, yes, politically, yes, raw power, not a chance.
Originally posted by kamikz
How can they know newly invented techniques, or self invented techniques from Sidious himself? Or even the jedi techniques that was developed in the millenias the jedi ruled...
That's my point.
The "Ancient Sith pwn because they have more knowledge" theory doesn't always work. Especially since it's been several millenia after their death for following Dark Lords to invent new techniques or rediscover them.
Because he had numerous holocrons, sites they created, access to their spirits...
And here's the exact quote: He knew all known, previously unknown and forgotten techniques and devised new ones at his pleasure."
And sorry, 'raw power' since it;s a direct reference to combat! The author even clarified what he meant! In fairness, I'll include he said not to take it as 100 percent gospel as LFL could change it, but...yeah, we know what he meant. And learn your grammar!
"WAS the most powerful....NOW he is dead!"
It only applies to the Ancient Empire! The authors were nice enough to clarify that too
Now tell me, was this including the fact that the Golden Age of the Sith existed, and that the Sith have been around for longer than 7,000 BBY? And who are you to say it only applied to the most powerful lol? The Most powerful of the most powerful is a lot more obvious than "Most powerful sith lord in history". That is my entire point. All this ambiguous text about Sidious knowing everything and what not, look at what he displayed in the comics, and in the books, and look what the ancient sith displayed in terms of raw power and force abilities.
And how can Sidious know everything that the ancient sith knew?
Perhaps he doesn't. But that doesn't negate the possibility that he knows more than what they do. He could've rediscovered old techniques and even created his own.
Please tell me what they meant by "everything" in terms of Sidious?
Why is everything suddenly ambiguous when it involves Palpatine?
Everything according to the PT times, the ancient times, overall?
Everything normally means everything - meaning all of it.
Oh wait, you're arguing with an ambiguous statement. And I know what the NEC says, I have it lightsnake.
The New Essentially Chronology is LFL approved, and is considered a valid source.
Ragnos is also "The most powerful of the most powerful", what's your point?
For his time. He is never (EVER) referred to as "the most powerful ever", whereas Palpatine has been. Like I said. More sources label Palpatine as "teh uber" than any other Sith Lord.
Ragnos included.
Suddenly the Ragnos statement is useless and the Sidious statement is fact?
No. It means that Ragnos's only applied for his time, whereas Sidious's statement included "history" which supercedes Ragnos.
Please explain what they mean by "most powerful in history".
I won't argue this with you again. So, please, pay attention.
The context of the situation does not leave any bearing for Sidious's political abilities. It says, quote plainly that "Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history". The context of the situation was a battle to the death - and not a discussion or a debate in the Senate. It is essentially stating that, "in a battle to the death, Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history", not "in a civil debate in the Rotunda, Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."
Power is not ambiguous.
Same would go for "Sidious knows everything", which was my point escape.
Um . . . how? These Ancient Sith have been dead for millenia, allowing others to rediscover and invent new techniques. How would that stop Sidious "from knowing everything"?
And Escape, the link didn't work.
Then I don't know what to tell you.
And then I revert back to my previous point, with that logic that means Yoda>all except Sidious, DE Luke>All including the likes of Kun and Nadd, etc.. See where I am going with this? And does Sidious display anything that would make him seem like the most powerful sith lord in history? I understand the nonsensical text but how would you apply it to a versus forum with the likes of all those ancient Jedi and sith? Sidious couldn't even defeat Yoda, what makes you think he can contend with Kun?
Oh yea, not to mention that statement was indeed made without having the wonderful EU in mind, correct..
And then I revert back to my previous point, with that logic that means Yoda>all except Sidious, DE Luke>All including the likes of Kun and Nadd, etc..
I put Kun and Sidious on equal footing, actually.
DE Luke is not in any fashion, Sidious's equal in the Force, no matter what happened during the lightsaber duel. He's leagues beneath him, even by DE.
See where I am going with this?
Not really.
And does Sidious display anything that would make him seem like the most powerful sith lord in history?
By being able to do all the crap he did without assistance from an item (Sadow), being virtually unknown (Ragnos), and doing more than all other Sith Lords.
I understand the nonsensical text but how would you apply it to a versus forum with the likes of all those ancient Jedi and sith?
Because text, quotes, and so forth act as proof. Evidence. They can be used.
Sidious couldn't even defeat Yoda, what makes you think he can contend with Kun?
DE Sidious (Dark Empire) would annihilate Yoda in a fight.
Oh yea, not to mention that statement was indeed made without having the wonderful EU in mind, correct..
Um . . . it was made in an EU source. . .
Aren't you talking about the ROTS Novel when you say "Yoda couldn't defeat the most powerful sith lord in history"? And how did what you say downplay the abilities of Sadow and Ragnos? I can also say that since Sadow created an amulet that can blast anything to hell, it is hell of a lot more impressive than Sidious' feats. At the same time, Sadow CREATED the sith magic used to rip out the core, it is specifically stated as SITH MAGIC, which is a VERY impressive feat. And Ragnos' scepter? Don't you think its 100% logical that if Ragnos put his power into the scepter, that he doesn't NEED the scepter to do what it did? Not to mention he had no need to suck the life force out of anything during his golden age?
Aren't you talking about the ROTS Novel when you say "Yoda couldn't defeat the most powerful sith lord in history"?
No, because it never said that in the RotS novelization.
And how did what you say downplay the abilities of Sadow and Ragnos? I can also say that since Sadow created an amulet that can blast anything to hell, it is hell of a lot more impressive than Sidious' feats.
No, I don't downplay them.
Furthermore, Sadow's amulet can't blast a fleet to hell, so STFU up and stop trying to say "When an Ancient Sith farts, it is a more impressive feat than Sidious".
NEC actually. ROTs novelization is different.
And prove Ragnos created the scepter, when we know Sith Lords comissioned others to create their weapons. And nope, Sadow blowing up a star-he never tore the core out- was described as a sorcerous gambit, Sith Power, SITH TECHNOLOGY and an electrical weapon.
And Palpatine could suck the force out of anything on his own. If Ragnos could, he would never have needed a scepter...and Palpatine tore open the fabric of space, directly described as the most powerful usage of the Dark Side
Prove ragnos created the scepter? Another attempt to downplay a character? We know Sadow created his amulet, we know Pall created his own sword, and we know Ragnos either CREATED his scepter or put his dark side abilities in it, as nobody had the power to suck the life forces, and it is very logical to assume Ragnos did. And Sadow was described as tearing the CORE from the sun using SITH magic, whether he used his ship or not..