Jack and lizzie

Its no coincidence in this movie that all 3 people who know that Liz and Jack are in denial ALL have some sort of "over seeing power" Beckett is the head of the East India Trading company..he basically over sees everything, he sees the world (big ass map in his office)

Norrington was once one of the people who resembled what Beckett is. He still is that kind of person at heart although he doesn't look the part and in the end he gains some power again. He can also see right through Lizs' denial.

Tia, well we all know she is a mind reading voodoo lady and yes she can oversee what is happening with all of the characters..She knows what Jack really wants.

These people can all see sense..its in their jobs/personality to do so. So they can see when people are in a state of denial over something in the film..they are the only ones who can see the bigger picture. whilst the messages are still flying over the three main characters' heads.

good points

Know what I also notice..When Disney were advertising this film before it came out..even the TRAILER suggests that Liz is going to want to be a pirate..The trailer starts with that haunting "Yo ho..yo ho...its a pirates life for me!" song that she sang at the beginning of the last one. Its like an eerie echo of Liz's past... this is them hinting that YES..she's been suppressed for a long time but now its time for her inner child to come back.. Its the TRAILER hinting about the most important theme of the new film...which is Liz breaking free.

It didn't just stop with the TRAILER. This was their main promo photo:

Look at how she is looking over her shoulder..it gives the impression of doomed bride..Its almost as if she is basically asking us "Is this what I really want?" everything about that photo..the ruined wedding dress..the gloomy day, the almost "funeral" looking scene suggests "NO its not Liz"

also look at the poster. Jack and Liz at the front..Will at the back...less important in this movie.

I originally worshipped the Will and Elizabeth pairing, but the second movie suddenly converted me and now, I'm rooting up for Jack and Elizabeth. They just look good together (although Will and Elizabeth looks good as well) and I really fell in love with their special moments at the movie, especially with 'the kiss'. I am really enlightened with all of your accounts, but I would like to still see Will and Elizabeth together despite that and a non-biased third movie would be great.

Will is a laid-back type of person so it's no surprise that he didn't interfere with Elizabeth and Jack kissing. And besides, if he just followed his heart and suddenly jumped back into the ship, taking out his sword and pointing it at Jack (or at Jack and Elizabeth, for instance), wouldn't it be an unintelligent move since it would cause a great scandal? The crew and other people would be aware of the fact that Elizabeth was having an affair with Jack and would cause great shame to Will since he's the one who was cheated on. And with Elizabeth's denials with regards to her real feelings for Jack (if ever there are any), she would be disgraced too (well, she's not even thinking about it before she kissed Jack). I supposed Will isn't impulsive as Elizabeth for him to do such thing (to just interfere with the kissing 'couple'😉. He chose to do what his brain told him to. Yes, he did sat down and frowned all the way, contemplating about the fact that his fiancee cheated on him when he believed that they are in love with each other, but the thought of that never left his mind. I guess he's planning on confronting Elizabeth privately afterwards without having to discuss the whole situation to everyone else and then Elizabeth (with her usual denials and lies), will apologize to Will and state her defenses. Of course Will isn't too happy about that, and will have second thoughts about continuing his marriage to Elizabeth. Yeah, he's absolutely hurt by Elizabeth's actions, but we can't deny the fact that he really loved her so much, although he isn't that good in expressing it. Not all are good in expressing their love and other emotions. And we can't really say that he doesn't love Elizabeth 100% just because they don't kiss often, hug often, flirt with each other often, say "I love you" to each other often. Just a simple act and motivation of risking his life for her just answers every single doubt.

To those who were saying that Will should've stolen Jack's compass from him and wasn't easily swayed by Jack to run after the key of Davy Jones in exchange for the compass, Will's belief is that he musn't do any harm upon others and cheat on them just for his own, selfish reasons. If he would do everything to save Elizabeth, surely that doesn't mean that he would kill other people just to save her. He wouldn't steal. He wouldn't lie. He's just proving that he's trustworthy despite the fact that Jack isn't and that he's basing his relationship and love to Elizabeth with truthfulness and honesty. He also believed in Elizabeth, so I guess it's not his fault for being unaffectionate that Elizabeth cheated on him in the first place and exchanged him for Jack, who is more pirate-y and more like what she really wants than him. Will is just doing what he thinks he should be doing, and he's just acting like his true self would act. He's not being pretentious or whatsoever.

If I were Will myself and I caught my boyfriend cheating on me, I wouldn't act so impetuously. I would calm myself down and think about whether I was dreaming or not. Yes, that sounds stupid like a scene in a soap opera but that's how everything works. I would then spy on them or something like that to gather more information before accusing someone of something. And I guess it somehow applies to most of the women. Yeah, women. But remember that not all men act without thinking it over. Besides, there are only two options one can do: either to just wait and confront later on or to just get into the war and settle everything once and for all.

And another, it's not Will's loss that he lost Elizabeth (or did he really). Yeah, sure, it is indeed a loss to him in a sense, but it's not that big cause you see, he still got his beloved father. Yes, realizing that his father is alive may be a hint that his focus and priorities would all revolve around his father, but it doesn't mean that he'll just leave and spend less and less time with Elizabeth. Of course, if Elizabeth is really true to Will despite her earlier interactions with Jack, she'll be willing to help Will get his father back, since she is Will's fiancee afterall and when they're already married, Bill is family too. And to those who are saying that Will doesn't love Elizabeth fully because his more priority is his father, are you even in the right state of mind?? If you were in his place, wouldn't you be acting the same? I remembered back in school, my friend asked me, "If you are in a boat that can only hold 2 people and that you have to chose between your girlfriend/boyfriend or parent (either mother or father), who would it be?" I didn't need to give it a further thought. I immediately know whom I'm going to save. It would be the two of them and I would just sacrifice myself to save them. Yeah, martyrdom. But I can't really imagine myself watching either one of them drown to death, right? But if situation really calls for something like that, I would, in no doubt, chose my parent. It's no longer in question, right?

It is Elizabeth's loss for losing such a noble, loyal and motivated man like Will. It is hard to find another guy just like him. Yes, she and Jack may get together even better. But who knows? A pirate is a pirate, whatever you do. Not because you want to be a pirate doesn't mean that you can easily adopt to the pirate life and act pirate-y like you've been brought up like that. I'm not saying that in the long run, someone will cheat on someone and that their steamy love affair would soon run out of fire, but it's just a basis for a lust-centered love.

My point is? Well, err.. I'm just defending Will's actions since I can say that he and I are in the same situation. I respect the opinions of everyone and those who said that Will is a loser or something like that and that he doesn't really love Elizabeth. You have stated your side, and now, I'm just stating mine.

No bad feelings, everyone! I myself is devoted to Captain Jack Sparrow and adores him so much. It's Elizabeth that I feel bad for. I know almost everyone here likes Jack and Elizabeth pairing and that what I barged into is a section for Jack and Elizabeth lovers. But then, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, right? I'm just defending Will, like what I said before, because almost everyone thinks very low of him right after seeing the second movie, and I believe that it's not fair for poor Will to be treated like that. Will has been a great part of this movie and will be in the continuing ones.

P.S. My deepest apologies for writing such a long arguement. I just felt like standing up for Will, who is the love of my life. Haha!

How love can be of an effect to a person.. =)

I agree with you on the Will being a laid back person thing..but I honestly dont think the crew would care if they saw Jack/Liz kiss..they are not people of high honor so they are not going to look down on her for doing it..they are pirates.

The director has said that they are focusing on the fact that Liz/Will is reflecting what happened to davy Jones. So I feel that it IS going to be Will who feels a huge loss if he loses Liz later on..Thats what happened to Davy jones. He cares alot for her but his priorities are changing. Liz running away at the wedding might not make him cross the line..but if he fails to save his own FATHER too? What will that do to him? He would have lost everything. I think this might happen because Tia seems to know that his destiny envolves this. The scene where they were all talking about what happened to davy..it focused HEAVILY on Will's reaction..and also the music was increadibly sinister. It makes the scene seem very overshadowing for Will.

I also dont think That liz feels the loss for possibly losing Will. She has grown apart from him so much in terms of personality. Thats why Disney seperated the two, so this could happen. She feels the loss for losing Jack more. She basically kissed him when Will was only feet away..By that point honor and decency meant nothing to her.

I doubt very much that she is going to return to what Will wants of her. and I doubt very much Will is going to turrn into what she wants, based on the fact that he is too decent. Characters dont develop backwards so Liz sure isnt gonna change..and Will..he seems to have made it clear he hates dishonesty etc. From movie one its clear that Liz longs for the pirate life and its obvious from the offset that Will isnt alwys going to be enough to satisfy that urge she has. Jack does however.

I understand what you mean though..by defending Will's actions. But its clear that Liz is not what is most important to him now.. You can see that their relationship is like fitting a square peg into a round hole..its just not going to work out.

Now what I find interesting is that Will seems to have this "too good to be true" feel about him. He is the safe character in the movies..so far.... You think he is the one who will always do good no matter what. But it all seems to be a bit of a deceiving aura. He is pretty much the third wheel now..and third wheel characters ALWAYS feel like they have to prove more to be accepted. He cant compare to Jack, He just basically lost Liz, he has his father..and if he fails at saving him...I don't know what he might do. He may give up on all hope..he has nothing..so taking an offer of more power (be it bad or good) is going to become very tempting to him.

If this happens, the fact that he was always the good, honorable and safe character would be completely shattering to the audience..it would be an amazing twist if this character who was always looked at as "Jacks shadow" and the "good boy" suddenly did something really drastic. It would be a great cliff hanger for movie 4 when it comes out.

This would bring the Will/Davy thing around full circle in the movies. There are so many hints that this is going to happen to will and if it didn't then I would be like "ok what the? then WHY put so much emphasis on the fact that its already happening?"

All the other characters have pretty much changed personality quite drastically..Jack's showing hints of liking Liz(instead of just using her)..and Liz is changing into an uncontrolable pirate....yet Will?

Also the very last scene in that film solidifies the fact that Jack had found the missing part of him and SHE had found the missing part of her. It wasnt about saving the others and will at all, It was about satisfying her own urge that she had been in denial about throughout the entire movie... She knew they could have all gotten away whilst the kraken attacked the empty ship. She knows that the kraken doesn't sense where Jack is it just attackes where it THINKS jack is.

to prove my point: it attacked the Greek ship thinking Jack was on it. And also the fact that Liz saw Jack getting away on the boat whilst it was still attaking the pearl. She is the only person to know it..yet she didnt care to say so to anyone. (Jack nows he can too..yet he stayed quiet aswell)

so her "I'ts after you not the ship, not us" line was a fat load of crap. She knew damn well they could have all gotten away. but by that point her temptation to kiss jack and get the rush of doing something bad was completley overdue..she was supposed to have gotten it during the curiosity scene. but she didn't/...leading to it finally poping like a baloon and she took it too far.

I personally dont think that she was crying because she betrayed Will..she was crying because she basically had an ultimate high and then later a huge low, realising that she had gone too far with her desire to do something bad...and she lost the one man she was begining to fall in love with,

All good points^^

Originally posted by vegaofthelyre
LovelyOne - Can i just say, I ADORE your hat theory. Very nicely deconstructed and it certainly seems to be logically consistent. You know, that hat-switching sequence in Tortuga actually bothered me both times when I watched the film because it seemed so random and apparently without purpose. I noticed it, but it was jarring because I felt like it was some kind of character point that the writers did not explain satisfactorily. NOW though, it makes perfect sense.

I gotta say though, the sexiness of this relationship would be vastly diminished without JD's brilliant interpretation of Jack Sparrow. I don't know how he does it. About 90% of the movie, Jack is utterly hilarious and crazy but then in one second, he'll go all serious and suddenly start radiating that dangerous sexuality. It makes me feel that the "drunken pirate" image is only a ruse and that underneath, Captain Jack is a VERY dangerous man. Heh. And when I say 'dangerous', I mean that in the hottest sense of the word. 😎

p.s. Maybe you pointed this out before, but can u explain when the FIRST time the compass pointed to Jack was? I thought the first time was on the ship, after the Norrington conversation? Do tell.

💃
I love LOVE this whole bit. So good with words... Dangerous sexuality!!! love it. SOOOOOO mr sparrow. seriously i totally agree that the drunken pirate image is charming, but also a cover up for that dangerous man. 😮‍💨

I really think we are going to get more of that Dangerous (/sexy to the extreme) man in the 3rd one more and more. We really saw it at the end of the 2nd, and for the 3rd movie, the stakes are going to be way higher, the intensity greater, etc... everything is coming to point, and i think we will see Jack's inner dangerousness come out. Thats what Lizzie truly loves, i think. she seems to get annoyed with him when he is being that "drunken pirate" because she knows there is something much greater beneath it---- not necessarily a "good man" as she keeps saying, but a powerful, dangerous, intense force to be reckoned with. that's what she means, i think.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Yeah, Tia was compared to Yoda, as well.

I'm not kidding, this movie is modeled directly off of Empire, and looking at POTC:Curse of the Black Pearl, it bears a close resemblance to StarWars, at least in terms of characters, plot developments, etc...

It only stands to reason that POTC: At World's End will be like JEDI.

YOU KNOW WHAT!! in Jedi didn't Layah get kidnapped by jabba the hut?(spelling?) And was it because of Hans Solo that this happened to her?

Apparently in the next one Liz gets kidnapped by a fat chinese pirate called Seu Feng 😂 and its because of jack this happens... He makes her dress up all pretty in chinese dresses just Like jaba made Layah dress up in revealing clothes.

and OH MY FACKING GOD! my jaw has literally just dropped to the floor! If they are following everything from the first 3 star wars movies and Will IS Liz's brother then that would make sense as to WHY her name is casted as "Elizabeth Turner" on the official site 😂..So maybe that IS going to happen.

but then that would completely contradict what the director says about Will/Davy J similarities..thats sounds more like a doomed "Anikin Destiny" to me.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
💃
I love LOVE this whole bit. So good with words... Dangerous sexuality!!! love it. SOOOOOO mr sparrow. seriously i totally agree that the drunken pirate image is charming, but also a cover up for that dangerous man. 😮‍💨

I really think we are going to get more of that Dangerous (/sexy to the extreme) man in the 3rd one more and more. We really saw it at the end of the 2nd, and for the 3rd movie, the stakes are going to be way higher, the intensity greater, etc... everything is coming to point, and i think we will see Jack's inner dangerousness come out. Thats what Lizzie truly loves, i think. she seems to get annoyed with him when he is being that "drunken pirate" because she knows there is something much greater beneath it---- not necessarily a "good man" as she keeps saying, but a powerful, dangerous, intense force to be reckoned with. that's what she means, i think.

yeah..its like with that curiosity scene she was saying one thing but it really meant that she was trying to get that other side out in him ...the dangerous/sexy side.

man that side is HOTT STUFF> sigh....

i vote for more revealing garments for the menfolk. hahaha yeah then i get banned... i know i know... lol.

yeah what is up with her name?!?!?!

On the deck in the curiosity scene one minute he was all like "typical crazy jack" when talking about marriage but when Liz started speaking next to him he seemed to sort of become more serious in his manor..and I think Liz picked up on it. Thats when she started saying "you're going to want to be a good man, gain the rewards that follow (meaning her)" She was actually meaning "You' can be serious with me, I know you can..give it a try"

WOW that scene FINALLY makes a tad more sense to me!! thanks guys.

Oooo lovely one is right there. He IS serious around Elizabeth. "Hide the rum" Then he acts all serious when hes explaining the story of Davy Jones heart.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
Its no coincidence in this movie that all 3 people who know that Liz and Jack are in denial ALL have some sort of "over seeing power" Beckett is the head of the East India Trading company..he basically over sees everything, he sees the world (big ass map in his office)

Norrington was once one of the people who resembled what Beckett is. He still is that kind of person at heart although he doesn't look the part and in the end he gains some power again. He can also see right through Lizs' denial.

Tia, well we all know she is a mind reading voodoo lady and yes she can oversee what is happening with all of the characters..She knows what Jack really wants.

These people can all see sense..its in their jobs/personality to do so. So they can see when people are in a state of denial over something in the film..they are the only ones who can see the bigger picture. whilst the messages are still flying over the three main characters' heads.

Oh so true. Once you can get past the main plot of this movie (on the surface): which is Jack owes a debt to Davy Jones, his soul, you can concentrate on all the metaphors and ironies and hints that surround the movie. If we had Jack's compass it would point to Jack/Liz -if what Disney is telling us is true - which is the compass shows you what you want most, your heart's deepest desire. Did you notice how intently Tia examines Elizabeth in that last scene -I almost expected her to come out and tell Elizabeth that she understood what was bothering her - that she knows her destiny.