Originally posted by Mindship
Both sides are wrong, the arabs are just more irrationally violent about it.
Originally posted by docb77
Interesting. Mostly true though definitely slanted towards Israel. Leaves out that in the Camp David offer while the palestinians would have gotten back "their land", Israel would have kept all the water rights and the roads between already established settlements.Both sides are wrong, the arabs are just more irrationally violoent about it.
Maybe, Israel is closing in fast though.
Originally posted by Mindship
"A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service
to all Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the
Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need.
Here we go:The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention.
Before the Israelis won the land in the 1967 war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians." As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation." So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap
Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing: No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living.
That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region
want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course -- that's
where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel.Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as
their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers
of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally
backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something.It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mid east. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.
Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five Million
Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a
pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks
swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals.Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to
obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea?Oh, that? We were just kidding. My friend, Kevin Rooney, made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it. Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny
Arab State into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of
innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting.Now, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst
Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death. Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with vital operations in Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of super models who've
just had their drugs taken away.However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing
moral weight. We've already lost some. After September 11th our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint.If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we
would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan.My friends - Walk in peace! Be Happy! Have a wonderful life!"
--Dennis Miller
The CAMP DAVID THING IS BULLSHIT. I was with you in your thought, but I watched the video that I keep linking and did some of my own research, and that camp david shit is bullshit, please watch the video I keep linking and see the treaty in its real form.
Originally posted by SoleranPlease point out where I initiate a comparison between the conduct of Israel's army and Hezbollah in order to try and imply that "Israel is as ruthless as Hezbollah."
Your entire presentation of facts is to illustrate how Israel is as ruthless as Hizbollah, are you trying to say that you are presenting otherwise?
To criticize the Israeli Defence Forces conduct is not to compare them to Hezbollah. Do I believe the IDF are as "ruthless" as Hezbollah? No. To intentionally attack civilians as Hezbollah does is atrocious. However do I believe the IDF has a high regard for non-Israeli civilian lives? Not particularly. The launching of the disproportionate assault on Lebanon that Israel is currently undertaking with a flagrant disregard for civilian lives and infrastructure is in no way comparable to the deliberate targeting of civilians, however it is still not justifiable conduct. Do you think it's wrong to criticize an army's conduct?
Originally posted by SoleranSo do you believe an army is justified in whatever actions it deems necessary?
War isn't nice, Israel has had to protect itself numerous times and its a game of survival for them.
Originally posted by SoleranJus ad bellum, jus in bello, the Geneva Conventions, the Hague Conventions, Convention against Torture, Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide etc. All of these are unnecessary?
What I am saying is that if International Law actually managed to stop these petty tyrants and terrorists then no laws would be needed, no action would need to be taken, huh. Yet we find in Africa, Middle East etc these same things occur over and over without regard to UN law. So I just question the vailidity of these laws and who they are really protecting.
Who are they designed to protect? Do you think that it is impossible to undertake military operations without adherence to these laws?
Originally posted by SoleranDo you think that a nation's army should only be held to the same expectation of standard of conduct as a terrorist group?
Paint any picture you want, there are no saints in war. All I look at is intent and the cause of said action. Unfortunetly it points at the inability of the Lebanese Govt at the moment and at Hizbollah for jeapordizing Lebanese civilians with it's military actions.Israel has the right to protect its borders and its civilians, hey it's been said disarm Hizbollah, place lebanese army at the Israel border and return Israel soldiers, the end.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Page cannot be found.
http://www.davidicke.com/media/newsletterspecial_part1.pdf
http://www.davidicke.com/media/newsletterspecial_part2.pdf
now try
To the person that said Hezbollah started this, Israel started it
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/LebIs.gif
Why were they there?
Originally posted by crazy
To the person that said Hezbollah started this, Israel started ithttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/LebIs.gif
Why were they there?
That really didn't say much. There was no source information attached. The casual browser has nothing with which to judge the veracity of that map, particularly the little red dot that could have been placed by anyone.
Originally posted by docb77
That really didn't say much. There was no source information attached. The casual browser has nothing with which to judge the veracity of that map, particularly the little red dot that could have been placed by anyone.
Well the soldiers were captured in Soutern Lebanon, since I should back up my sources, here is another one to my first link.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060712/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_clash
It clearly says Southern Lebanon in the 2nd paragraph I think, this is of course to back up my first link.
Israeli bomb kills UN observersFour United Nations observers have been killed in an Israeli air strike on an observation post in south Lebanon.
UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said he was "shocked" at the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the post. Israel has expressed "deep regret".
Israel earlier said it would control an area in southern Lebanon until international forces deployed.
The force will be discussed at international crisis talks to be held in Rome on Wednesday.
The meeting is being attended by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Mr Annan, as well as foreign ministers and top officials from five European and four Arab countries.
BBC diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall said the Italian prime minister and others believe a quick ceasefire to be the main priority.
But the US and Britain will not push for a ceasefire unless root causes of the conflict are addressed, she adds.
The summit will take place without a delegation from Israel.
Observers sheltering
Ms Rice will attend the talks after ending her tour of the Middle East on Tuesday.
More than 380 Lebanese and 42 Israelis have died in nearly two weeks of conflict in Lebanon, which began after Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid on 12 July.
The UN in Lebanon says the Israeli air force destroyed the post, in which four military observers were sheltering.
It said the four, from Austria, Canada, China and Finland, had taken shelter in a bunker under the post after it was earlier shelled 14 times by Israeli artillery.
A rescue team was also shelled as it tried to clear the rubble.
"I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defence Forces of a UN Observer post in southern Lebanon," Mr Annan said in a statement from Rome.
Unifil has been operational in the border area since 1978 and is currently 2,000 strong.
Hezbollah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah, has vowed the group will continue its rocket attacks on Israel.
Mr Nasrallah told Hezbollah's al-Manar television that the militant group would fire rockets deeper into Israel and would counter any Israeli advance into southern Lebanon, and criticised what he called an Israeli-US plan for a "new Middle East".
"There is no way that we can accept any humiliating conditions on us, our people or our country... especially after all these sacrifices... we are open to political discussions and solutions with flexibility, but the dignity and national interest is a red line."
Originally posted by crazy
Well the soldiers were captured in Soutern Lebanon, since I should back up my sources, here is another one to my first link.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060712/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_clash
It clearly says Southern Lebanon in the 2nd paragraph I think, this is of course to back up my first link.
Your first link here says in the first paragraph that "Hezbollah militants crossed into Israel". The subsequent story is about the rescue operation and subsequent invasion that, yes, is in southern Lebanon.
