Israel and Lebanon

Originally posted by Bardock42
I would agree if it was in any way justified, but since Israel just kills the civilians for the heck of it I find it to be my right to point it out.

The civilians have had ample time to get out. And don't use that whole 'some were too poor' statement, it's just about getting old because I've heard it used so many times. Some may have down right refused to leave, or some were just too stupid to notice all the refugees leaving. Israel is perhaps not trying to make the mistake of lowering their guard to save innocents that can very likely be enemies themselves.

As history can account for them, nobody should blame Israel for showing no restraint.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
The civilians have had ample time to get out. The whole 'some were too poor' statement is just about getting old. Some may have down right refused to leave, or some were just too stupid to notice all the refugees leaving. Israel is perhaps not trying to make the mistake of lowering their guard to save innocents that can very likely be suicide bombers themselves.

They are still attacking civilians...do you somehow not get that?

Originally posted by Bardock42
They are still attacking civilians...do you somehow not get that?

Question:

Is there actually a discernable difference between civilians and Lebanon armed forces. They all seem to take refuge in civilian homes.

I'd say they're doing it on purpose to make Israel look bad.

Originally posted by Draco69
Question:

Is there actually a discernable difference between civilians and Lebanon armed forces. They all seem to take refuge in civilian homes.

I'd say they're doing it on purpose to make Israel look bad.

I think Israel is being able to make themself look bad just fine.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
The civilians have had ample time to get out. The whole 'some were too poor' statement is just about getting old. Some may have down right refused to leave, or some were just too stupid to notice all the refugees leaving. Israel is perhaps not trying to make the mistake of lowering their guard to save innocents that can very likely be suicide bombers themselves.

Terrorists also use the tactic of not letting civilians leave, threatening to shoot them on the spot if they try to, the very citizens they are "protecting."

If not for the unfortunate human tendency to cut one's nose off to spite one's face, Lebanon's citizens would surely admit that they made a Huge Mistake voting Hezbollah into office.

Originally posted by Bardock42
They are still attacking civilians...do you somehow not get that?

Obviously that's the only thing you're focusing on.

Attacking civilians? The word 'attack' is not proper. Remember, these are terrorist that the Israelis are dealing with here. Do you somehow not understand how vulnerable Israel could become if they hesitated bombing an area? What if civilians are stilled killed even after Israel takes precautions in bombing an area? What would the point be in continuing on with this tactic?

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Obviously that's the only thing you're focusing on.

Attacking civilians? The word 'attack' is not proper. Remember, these are terrorist that the Israelis are dealing with here. Do you somehow not understand how vulnerable Israel could become if they hesitated bombing an area? What if civilians are stilled killed even after Israel takes precautions in bombing an area? What would the point be in continuing on with this tactic?

No, my general focus is on the unjustified attack on Lebanon in general.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think Israel is being able to make themself look bad just fine.

For what? Israel has been trying for years to conduct peace talks. The response? A car bomb. The Lebanons have Muslim extremists in power. They cannot be negotiated with. They want to kill all Jews as ordained by Allah.

The Lebanon "troops" are nearly indiscernable with civilians. Even "civilians" get into the act by blowing themselves up in a Israeli bus. They're even involving their own children as foottroops.

I can't see how anyone could support a "nation" who uses childrens as foottroops and use their own civilians as suicide bombers....

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, my general focus is on the unjustified attack on Lebanon in general.

And you think the capturing of the Israeli soldiers, and the attack on Israel itself was justified? Lebanon is no better. Or Hezbollah, rather.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, my general focus is on the unjustified attack on Lebanon in general.

Israel has this rather stupid cultural weakness. If one of their own is captured, they will do everything in their power to bring them back home.

"Leave no Jew behind...literally"

That's why in the past they've traded arms and dozens of terrorist prisoners for life of one soldier. Which is just stupid in military strategy.

Lebanons take advantage of this and do everything in their power to capture a soldier as a hostage. They know Israel will fold.

Originally posted by Draco69
Israel has this rather stupid cultural weakness. If one of their own is captured, they will do everything in their power to bring them back home.

"Leave no Jew behind...literally"

That's why in the past they've traded arms and dozens of terrorist prisoners for life of one soldier. Which is just stupid in military strategy.

Lebanons take advantage of this and do everything in their power to capture a soldier as a hostage. They know Israel will fold.

WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOW

Easy on the Lebanon there....what you mean is Hezbollah, right?

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
And you think the capturing of the Israeli soldiers, and the attack on Israel itself was justified? Lebanon is no better.

Last time I checked Lebanon didn't start attacking Israel and it didn't capture any soldiers...in fact it was for another "no reason" partly occupied by Israel for over 20 years....but that's alright..after all Israel is not Muslim.

i guess illegal occupation and repeated acts of indiscriminate killing are easily forgiven, so long as its isreal.

make no mistake, there is evil on both fronts. but to sit there and paint iseal as the good guys in white...just mindnumbing.

Originally posted by PVS
i guess illegal occupation and repeated acts of indiscriminate killing are easily forgiven, so long as its isreal.

make no mistake, there is evil on both fronts. but to sit there and paint iseal as the good guys in white...just mindnumbing.

No one is saying they're the good guys. But maybe they're the smartest ones.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
No one is saying they're the good guys. But maybe they're the smartest ones.

That or the better supported ones, one or the other.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Conduct, even in war, must be justifiable and accountable.

As noble of an idea this is... really it's never going to happen. War is war and is never going to truly follow a set of rules and regulations. The United Nations Charter, the Geneva conventions and the Hague conventions are merely feel-good policies that are rarely if ever followed by both parties in a real war.

War is s virtually a inherently lawless concept to begin with, and trying to add regulations to such a barbaric institution is denial.

Example: The Hezbollah was using the late U.N Observation outpost as cover to launch missiles into Israeli territory and kill Israeli civilians. Israel in response blows the place up and tragically kills the U.N observers inside. This is sad yes, but necessary as Israel eliminated a military target. But of course the modern world being full of hypocrisy sees only the dead U.N observers and not the reasons and the why behind it. They only condemn the fact that it did not follow the rules of engagement or some such crap like that. Either that or no one knew that the U.N outpost was being used as a cover for Hezbollah missiles. I wonder if Hezbollah really cares about the rules of engagement hmm? Apparently not.

Source: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50&p=1

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
No one is saying they're the good guys. But maybe they're the smartest ones.

smarter? so what does that justify? hitler was a genius.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That or the better supported ones, one or the other.

Well it's either a democratic, peaceful unless provoked society or a ragtag bunch of suicide bombers ruled by a extreme Islam dictator who enjoys sending innocent 11-year old boys to the front lines armed with machine guns...

It's not a wonder who we side with.

Israel is by no means innocent. Be they are certainly the lesser evil.

The civilians have had ample time to get out. And don't use that whole 'some were too poor' statement, it's just about getting old because I've heard it used so many times. Some may have down right refused to leave, or some were just too stupid to notice all the refugees leaving. Israel is perhaps not trying to make the mistake of lowering their guard to save innocents that can very likely be enemies themselves.

People complain about civilian deaths you terd, because they are the only ones dying. And there's been 600 of them. While Hizbollah doesn't seem to be weakened at all.

You also forget that some have been attacking individual cars. The argument that they're are too poor still stands wether you like it or not.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
And you think the capturing of the Israeli soldiers, and the attack on Israel itself was justified? Lebanon is no better. Or Hezbollah, rather.

Ummm the attack on Israel with rockets came after Israel started conducting air strikes on Lebanon. Stop using that bloody argument because it's false and it's about time you all got that into your heads.

So according to you, kidnapping two Israeli soldiers warrants the death of 600 or so civilians. We got two of our soldiers kidnapped, not killed mind you, so let's get them back by raising the whole country to the ground and killing civilians. The whole point of kidnapping the two soldiers was to start a prisoner exchange and show solidarity with the palestinians.

Speaking of the palestinians. No-one talks about them anymore as world view shifted its attention to Lebanon. But military operations are still taking place there too and the cost of civilian life isn't nill either.

Terrorists also use the tactic of not letting civilians leave, threatening to shoot them on the spot if they try to, the very citizens they are "protecting."

Ummm not Hezbollah. As previously stated, they launch their rockets away from towns as witnessed by a BBC correspondent. When they do launch from towns, it's in towns that have completely been destroyed.

Hezbollah is now a militant group, not a terrorsist group. They've actually opened shelters for the civilians after Israel started bombing. Al Quaeda in a recent message said they were behind them. Hezbollah militants responded that they do not want the support of a group who operates solely on murdering civilians.

The only thing that goes against them, these days, is the fact that they're launching rockets at Israel's cities. But again, that's because they're pissed off at Israel bombing their civilians, so they're exacting retribution.

The Lebanons have Muslim extremists in power. They cannot be negotiated with. They want to kill all Jews as ordained by Allah.

Lebanese, not Lebanons. Lebanon has a muslim militant group who has seats in the government. Different. And no, Allah doesn't ordain the killing of all jews. Eww, just stop talking.

Example: The Hezbollah was using the late U.N Observation outpost as cover to launch missiles into Israeli territory and kill Israeli civilians. Israel in response blows the place up and tragically kills the U.N observers inside. This is sad yes, but necessary as Israel eliminated a military target. But of course the modern world being full of hypocrisy sees only the dead U.N observers and not the reasons and the why behind it.

Ummm, when was that ever confirmed? The UN guys called in 10 times to tell the Israelis to stop bombing. Each time the IDF said they'd stop but the bombs kept looming closer until the fatal blow.

It's like these journalists who have been shot in the past in Palestine while they were wearing all their correct markings. And those two ambulances who have also been recently hit, when their sirens and red cross signs were showing. I don't blame Kofi Anan for thinking the UN thing was done on purpose.

Well it's either a democratic, peaceful unless provoked society or a ragtag bunch of suicide bombers ruled by a extreme Islam dictator who enjoys sending innocent 11-year old boys to the front lines armed with machine guns...

You again. What are you talking about? Who is this you are speaking of? We're talking about Lebanon.

The civilians have had ample time to get out. And don't use that whole 'some were too poor' statement, it's just about getting old because I've heard it used so many times. Some may have down right refused to leave, or some were just too stupid to notice all the refugees leaving. Israel is perhaps not trying to make the mistake of lowering their guard to save innocents that can very likely be enemies themselves.

People complain about civilian deaths you terd, because they are the only ones dying. And there's been 600 of them. While Hizbollah doesn't seem to be weakened at all.

You also forget that the Israelis have been targetting individual cars also. The argument that they're are too poor still stands wether you like it or not.

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
And you think the capturing of the Israeli soldiers, and the attack on Israel itself was justified? Lebanon is no better. Or Hezbollah, rather.

Ummm the attack on Israel with rockets came after Israel started conducting air strikes on Lebanon. Stop using that bloody argument because it's false and it's about time you all got that into your heads.

So according to you, kidnapping two Israeli soldiers warrants the death of 600 or so civilians. We got two of our soldiers kidnapped, not killed mind you, so let's get them back by raising the whole country to the ground and killing civilians. The whole point of kidnapping the two soldiers was to start a prisoner exchange and show solidarity with the palestinians.

Speaking of the palestinians. No-one talks about them anymore as world view shifted its attention to Lebanon. But military operations are still taking place there too and the cost of civilian life isn't nill either.

Terrorists also use the tactic of not letting civilians leave, threatening to shoot them on the spot if they try to, the very citizens they are "protecting."

Ummm not Hezbollah. As previously stated, they launch their rockets away from towns as witnessed by a BBC correspondent. When they do launch from towns, it's in towns that have completely been destroyed.

Hezbollah is now a militant group, not a terrorsist group. They've actually opened shelters for the civilians after Israel started bombing. Al Quaeda in a recent message said they were behind them. Hezbollah militants responded that they do not want the support of a group who operates solely on murdering civilians.

The only thing that goes against them, these days, is the fact that they're launching rockets at Israel's cities. But again, that's because they're pissed off at Israel bombing their civilians, so they're exacting retribution.

The Lebanons have Muslim extremists in power. They cannot be negotiated with. They want to kill all Jews as ordained by Allah.

Lebanese, not Lebanons. Lebanon has a muslim militant group who has seats in the government. Different. And no, Allah doesn't ordain the killing of all jews. Eww, just stop talking.

Example: The Hezbollah was using the late U.N Observation outpost as cover to launch missiles into Israeli territory and kill Israeli civilians. Israel in response blows the place up and tragically kills the U.N observers inside. This is sad yes, but necessary as Israel eliminated a military target. But of course the modern world being full of hypocrisy sees only the dead U.N observers and not the reasons and the why behind it.

Ummm, when was that ever confirmed? The UN guys called in 10 times to tell the Israelis to stop bombing. Each time the IDF said they'd stop but the bombs kept looming closer until the fatal blow.

It's like these journalists who have been shot in the past in Palestine while they were wearing all their correct markings. And those two ambulances who have also been recently hit, when their sirens and red cross signs were showing. I don't blame Kofi Anan for thinking the UN thing was done on purpose.

Well it's either a democratic, peaceful unless provoked society or a ragtag bunch of suicide bombers ruled by a extreme Islam dictator who enjoys sending innocent 11-year old boys to the front lines armed with machine guns...

You again. What are you talking about? Who is this you are speaking of? We're talking about Lebanon.