Israel and Lebanon

Originally posted by VanillaCocaCola
What the hell are you rambling about?

EDIT: Random related link, Hezbollah hiding in Civillian clothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict#Allegations_of_Hezbollah.27s_human_shield_usage

And you are going to use wikipedia as a good source of information? I don't know, may be you wrote that thing.
And yeah right 🙄 they were also hiding in the airport, and on the bridges, in kindergardens and two houses Israel recently bombed, and you're going to buy all that? Again, there are over 1000 people died, 900 of them were civilians, others from army of lebanon and great minority from Hezbollah.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Again, there are over 1000 people died, 900 of them were civilians, others from army of lebanon and great minority from Hezbollah.

Well since Hezbollah isn't in the army and they are a terrorist group they are civillians.

Originally posted by Robtard
Debating what Israel does or doesn't do is a moot point, you're going to believe the Israelis are blood thirsty rapist no matter what.

So, what does Israel need to do to appease these terrorist (which is a bad idea, appeasing terrorist only urges them to commit more terrorism)? What would it take to have peace in your eyes?

And i have reasons to believe that they are blood thirsty rapists and killers.
You tell me that I wont believe otherwise no matter of what, who's talking, you are buying every crap they say about accidently killing 900 people and terrorists hiding in the kindergardens. Take Palestine for example. Israel says: "those kids had bombs so we had to shoot them down" or "we killed those teenagers because they were terrorists" or "we bombed that village in respone for blah blah" but in reality everything Palestine does is a respone for what they did to them. What it takes you to understand that?

Originally posted by Soleran
Well since Hezbollah isn't in the army and they are a terrorist group they are civillians.

900 inocent people. 1/3 of them kids.

Originally posted by Sam Z
900 inocent people. 1/3 of them kids.

The news told you this huh, me too! Except how do you tell a hezbollah "soldier" from a civillian?

Originally posted by Soleran
The news told you this huh, me too! Except how do you tell a hezbollah "soldier" from a civillian?

It is not hard to find out. Usually you can know from relatives. 300 are kids, you suspect that kids were from Hezbollah as well?

Originally posted by Sam Z
It is not hard to find out. Usually you can know from relatives. 300 are kids, you suspect that kids were from Hezbollah as well?

It's not hard to find out, huh, oh really. Kids can and have worked for militia/terrorist groups in the past, is that hard to understand?

Originally posted by Soleran
It's not hard to find out, huh, oh really. Kids can and have worked for militia/terrorist groups in the past, is that hard to understand?

Yeah. like at the time when soldiers shot down two kid(both aroung ten) and said they had bombs, but no bombs were found. Like I said, 900 inocent people.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah. like at the time when soldiers shot down two kid(both aroung ten) and said they had bombs, but no bombs were found. Like I said, 900 inocent people.

Great you accounted for 2 lost civilians now come up with the rest of the 898! My point is, its very difficult, there are innocent lives lost. However a known tactic in "war" is to hide your casualties to demoralize your enemy and strngth your backing by those sympathetic to your cause.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not deciding anything. I'm restating the views of historians.

"The Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombs did not defeat Japan, nor by the testimony of the enemy leaders who ended the war did they persuade Japan to accept unconditional surrender. The Emperor, the lord privy seal, the prime minister, the foreign minister and the navy minister had decided as early as May of 1945 that the war should be ended even it meant acceptance of defeat on allied terms."
"Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."
United States Strategic Bombing Survey

"Careful scholarly treatment of the records and manuscripts opened over the past few years has greatly enhanced our understanding of why the Truman administration used atomic weapons against Japan. Experts continue to disagree on some issues, but critical questions have been answered. The consensus among scholars is that the bomb was not needed to avoid an invasion of Japan and to end the war within a relatively short time. It is clear that alternatives to the bomb existed and that Truman and his advisers knew it."
J. Samuel Walker; Chief Historian of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

Pray tell, what do you have to offer?

Pray tell, what were those alternatives?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Inanity. As well as the gross oversimplification in the use of the term "bad guy". The world is not a playground or cheap Hollywood fare.

Do I have to go back in time and fight Nazi Germany too? And before you straw man I'm not comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, I'm illustrating the inanity of your statement. One does not have to "fight them or fight with them" to form an opinion on a nation's conduct.

Then tell me, why do you blame Israel for killing civilians?

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Pray tell, what were those alternatives?

Originally posted by Phoenix2001
Then tell me, why do you blame Israel for killing civilians?

What is your opinion as to the longer term outcome of the current situation?

Originally posted by Soleran
Great you accounted for 2 lost civilians now come up with the rest of the 898! My point is, its very difficult, there are innocent lives lost. However a known tactic in "war" is to hide your casualties to demoralize your enemy and strngth your backing by those sympathetic to your cause.

Those 2 was an example of what Israel says when they kill inocents, they always use cheap lies. Same here, they bombed houses kindergardens and bridges and said there were terrorists, but turned out they only killed inocent people, so now they are using cheap excuses.
It is not hard to find out what victims were from Hezbollah and what not.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Good, you agree that you'd hate them if they bombed your relatives for no reason, now you understand why I hate them, and those 900 hundred people have no reason to hate Hezbollah because Hezbollah was NOT hiding in their villages, neither in the houses or kindergardens, neither on the bridges or airports that Israel bombed, it was just a cheap excuse to justefy their violant actions and you bought that crap. The fact is that Hezbollah did not wanted situation to get where it is, they took hostages to exchange them for prisoners, in the very beginning of bombing they said they don't want to fight, and pay attention they never attacked Tel Aviv even though they can, and it makes no sense if they wanted war as you say. What quetion do you want me to answer? If i think that Hezbolah are good guys? No, i don't think so because they kill inocent people as well, but Israel does the same and in bigger amount and even when violant was not needed. So if Hezbollah is a terrorist organization then so is Israel, but much worse, especially if we are talking not only about Lebanon but Palestine as well.

Reread what I say, I did not say no reason. I said I'd hate them out of ignorance.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
FYI deliberate. Cultural reference.

Websters-Merriam disagrees. But sure, cultural.

"Accepting". The ironing is indeed delicious. The U.S. was not wrong for not accepting Japan's condition, because they did accept Japan's condition. The fact that Japan was making strong overtures of surrender didn't impact the intention to use the nuclear warhead. The U.S. was wrong for using nuclear warheads as there was no necessity.

So the US was not wrong, but was wrong... OK.... Believe what you like, neither of our views are original anyhow, for each historian, history book you pull to support your view, there’s another to contest it. So I guess I must be listening to the wrong people and reading the wrong books. 🙄

Don't you remember, I admitted to making grammatical errors and will continue to do so, but you selectively pointing them out in a vain attempt to bully people is pathetic, since of course not only am I the only one that does it, but you have made errors yourself, unless you see yourself as being perfect.

Indeed yours is.

LOL, Ok, I'm a hypocrite, but refrain from dropping the knee jerk 'irony' bomb.

I have.

Super.

You do.

I'm sure I do... 'I know you are, but what am I!'

Robtard-->"The world by and large hates Israel and condemns it for every single Lebanese death so far, read the news, you'll see a cornucopia of 'Lebanese civilian casulties' headlines and the stories that follow condemn Israel." wasn't intended to imply that the news media only pays attention to Lebanese casualties?

Ironing at its finest.

And I repeat, did I ever say "Everyone hates Israel." nor did I say or imply that all media is one sided and on the Lebanese side, as you quoted and claimed I did.

Now you sound like a parrot.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Accept the overtures of surrender from the Japanese, clarifying the U.S. stance on the Emperor, that they intended to allow the retention of the monarchy, knowing it would be a militarily strategically beneficial to do so.
A website if you're genuinely interested:
http://www.ncesa.org/html/hiroshima.html
Although I'm doubting it.

I'll give it a look... while being skeptical of the source.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
My opinions are formed from the information available to me? What is your opinion of the current situation and how was it formed? My view is that the current Israeli offensive is too indiscriminate and disproportionate and will ultimately fail to achieve anything substantial other than further death on both sides and economic and humanitarian crises in Lebanon.

What is your opinion as to the longer term outcome of the current situation?

My opinion is that Israel is doing what it can to protect itself, and that opinion was formed from information given to me while staying skeptical of that information.

Israel, and Hezbollah are fighting a fight without rules. Always in war there are deaths and economic crises. This is something you can always expect. But someone will achieve something, if you fight the fight in a manner of following no rules.

Unless you live in either Israel or Lebanon, then you cannot truly justify what Hezbollah and Israel have committed. You can neither blame either of them, for their influences are far beyond your and my comprehension. It all simply comes down to a matter of life and death.

What annoys me about all this is the biast news reporting. They go on about that its Hezbollahs fault because they started firing rockets at isreal.

But they only started that AFTER isreal started the bombing. Ok Hezbollah captured two Isreali soldiers which was daft and bound to piss Isreal off. But Isreal is holding THOUSANDS of Hezbollah people prisoner, not to mention a whole nation of Palastine.

I recon Isreal is the US´s long arm in the middle east, the same way Iran is using Lebanon as a remote attacking entity, the US is using Isreal.

Originally posted by VanillaCocaCola
The people looking for a fight are the ones that run up and kick a man in the ass as he walks away from one.

When they crossed over Israeli borders and killed and kidnapped soldiers.

Wow killing soldiers and kidnapping them is really ugly! Compared to shelling a Gaza beach full of civilians who were having a day out in the sea!

No it's far worse. Which is why Hezbollah retaliated by attacking soldiers NOT CIVILIANS like Israel did...

The news told you this huh, me too! Except how do you tell a hezbollah "soldier" from a civillian? It's not hard to find out, huh, oh really. Kids can and have worked for militia/terrorist groups in the past, is that hard to understand?

Out of all the stupid things I've read from you, i.e. Hezbollah launching rockets before Israel's first bombings, this one nails it. You really are a div. You mean most of these dead people and kids were most likely Hezbollah afterall? So you're saying we might as well kill everyone who moves, because they may be a Hezbollah militant afterall? I suppose in that case the red cross ambulances and the UN post were probably Hezbollah as well? Most of the deaths have been confirmed civilians you idiot by people in a better position to make said confirmation than you.

Go pour yourself a glass of milk and eat a pack of cookies, instead of posting crap, you little pratt.

Originally posted by Dirty Vader
Most of the deaths have been confirmed civilians you idiot by people in a better position to make said confirmation than you.

So how many of the 900+ are civilians and how many are Hezbollah militants?

Originally posted by Dirty Vader
Wow killing soldiers and kidnapping them is really ugly! Compared to shelling a Gaza beach full of civilians who were having a day out in the sea!

No it's far worse. Which is why Hezbollah retaliated by attacking soldiers NOT CIVILIANS like Israel did...

I don't give a flying **** how horrible Israel's actions are. Show me a link to the unbiased reporting of what happened on this Gaza beach.

Also, Hezbollah has been caught already operating in civilian clothing and unmarked vehicles, what makes you think that there aren't more?

Originally posted by Sam Z
And you are going to use wikipedia as a good source of information? I don't know, may be you wrote that thing.
And yeah right 🙄 they were also hiding in the airport, and on the bridges, in kindergardens and two houses Israel recently bombed, and you're going to buy all that? Again, there are over 1000 people died, 900 of them were civilians, others from army of lebanon and great minority from Hezbollah.

You don't know much about wikipedia do you, 'quality control', the requirement to list sources, the fact that only longtime members of wikipedia can edit it currently, the huge list of citations and soruces that are at the bottom of the page? People that don't like what they read usually deny it's validity because they can't accept opposing facts. 👆