Originally posted by Sam Z
I don't have sympathy for Hezbollah but they are inocent comparing to Israel. By the way about believing differently. They chose Hamas in palestine and that were democratic elections, just like US wanted, and now look what happening after they chose someone Israel and US do not want.
Now... tell me whether or not they voted freely.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Hezbollah asks Israel to stop and you say their aim is to kill civilians. Well i got news for you, more than 900 of people that died in Lebanon are civilians, others are from Lebanon army and great minority from Hezbolla. You ARE naive if you don't see that Israel bombs civilians on purpose and then make excuses that it was Hezbollah, I never said Hezbollah is inocent but what's the differance between Hezbollah and Israel? The only difference is that Israel killed much more inocent people. My claims are not outrageous, they are just truth. That's what Jews did since 1948, like it or nor and I don't just hate jews. I actually have friends among them but I do hate Israel jews for what they did.
How is media anti-israel if it made stereotypes that Islam and terrorism are the same things. You did not mentioned Qur'an but you did mentioned religion and it seems that you talk of it as of source of terrorism, and Jihad is actually a holly war and is about spreading religion. I don't need to apologize for what Hezbollah do because I do not aprove deathes of inocents, but try to accept that Israel bombs inocents on purpose like those kids or two houses recently, they always were doing that, they were killing inocent people before and doing it now and the only reason why they don't use "cowardly" methods is because they a)can bomb from distance and b) when they do not bomb they fight civilians that can't fight back (throwing rocks does not count) and these are cowardly methods. Hezbollah is not inocent but Israel is many times wose and they ARE real terrorists.
Hezbollah ask Israel to stop because it is losing and their munitions are running low, how benign of them. That's a great tactic in war, 'if you're enemy is losing, stop and let him regroup and rearm.' Utterly illogical. If Israel was losing and they said "Stop!", would Hezbollah stop? Wait, thats right, they have vowed to not stop until Israel is completely gone. And yes, yet again, Hezbollah specifically targets civilians, those rockets are not aimed at military objectives. That is a fact.
Dude, you flip flop back and forth, first Hezbollah kills on accident and they're not terrorist, now they're terrorist; whats next? They're terrorist-lite, they're freedom fighters?
Yes, I did mention religion, Islamic Fundamentalist extremist, they use they're view of Islam as a weapon and as a means to an end. And don't go trying to make excuse for jihadist, these terrorist don't claim jihads in order to spread religion, they use it to validate terrorist acts. On that notion though, you say jihad's are for the purpose of going to war to spread religion... That sounds alright with you? Someone killing you because you differ in religion is acceptable?
Originally posted by Dr. Zaius
Victor Davis Hanson of "National Review" lends his unique blend of caustic, insightful sanity to the debate.The Vocabulary of Untruth
Words take on new meanings as Israel struggles to survive.By Victor Davis Hanson
A “ceasefire” would occur should Hezbollah give back kidnapped Israelis and stop launching missiles; it would never follow a unilateral cessation of Israeli bombing. In fact, we will hear international calls for one only when Hezbollah’s rockets are about exhausted.
“Civilians” in Lebanon have munitions in their basements and deliberately wish to draw fire; in Israel they are in bunkers to avoid it. Israel uses precision weapons to avoid hitting them; Hezbollah sends random missiles into Israel to ensure they are struck.“Collateral damage” refers mostly to casualties among Hezbollah’s human shields; it can never be used to describe civilian deaths inside Israel, because everything there is by intent a target.
“Cycle of Violence” is used to denigrate those who are attacked, but are not supposed to win.
“Deliberate” reflects the accuracy of Israeli bombs hitting their targets; it never refers to Hezbollah rockets that are meant to destroy anything they can.
“Deplore” is usually evoked against Israel by those who themselves have slaughtered noncombatants or allowed them to perish — such as the Russians in Grozny, the Syrians in Hama, or the U.N. in Rwanda and Dafur.
“Disproportionate” means that the Hezbollah aggressors whose primitive rockets can’t kill very many Israeli civilians are losing, while the Israelis’ sophisticated response is deadly against the combatants themselves. See “excessive.”
Anytime you hear the adjective “excessive,” Hezbollah is losing. Anytime you don’t, it isn’t.
“Eyewitnesses” usually aren’t, and their testimony is cited only against Israel.
“Grave concern” is used by Europeans and Arabs who privately concede there is no future for Lebanon unless Hezbollah is destroyed — and it should preferably be done by the “Zionists” who can then be easily blamed for doing it.
“Innocent” often refers to Lebanese who aid the stockpiling of rockets or live next to those who do. It rarely refers to Israelis under attack.
The “militants” of Hezbollah don’t wear uniforms, and their prime targets are not those Israelis who do.
“Multinational,” as in “multinational force,” usually means “third-world mercenaries who sympathize with Hezbollah.” See “peacekeepers.”
“Peacekeepers” keep no peace, but always side with the less Western of the belligerents.
“Quarter-ton” is used to describe what in other, non-Israeli militaries are known as “500-pound” bombs.
“Shocked” is used, first, by diplomats who really are not; and, second, only evoked against the response of Israel, never the attack of Hezbollah.
“United Nations Action” refers to an action that Russia or China would not veto. The organization’s operatives usually watch terrorists arm before their eyes. They are almost always guilty of what they accuse others of.
What explains this distortion of language? A lot.
First there is the need for Middle Eastern oil. Take that away, and the war would receive the same scant attention as bloodletting in central Africa.
Then there is the fear of Islamic terrorism. If the Middle East were Buddhist, the world would care about Lebanon as little as it does about occupied Tibet.
And don’t forget the old anti-Semitism. If Russia or France were shelled by neighbors, Putin and Chirac would be threatening nuclear retaliation.
Israel is the symbol of the hated West. Were it a client of China, no one would dare say a word.
Population and size count for a lot: When India threatened Pakistan with nukes for its support of terrorism a few years ago, no one uttered any serious rebuke.
Finally, there is the worry that Israel might upset things in Iraq. If we were not in Afghanistan and Iraq trying to win hearts and minds, we wouldn’t be pressuring Israel behind the scenes.
But most of all, the world deplores the Jewish state because it is strong, and can strike back rather than suffer. In fact, global onlookers would prefer either one of two scenarios for the long-suffering Jews to learn their lesson. The first is absolute symmetry and moral equivalence: when Israel is attacked, it kills only as many as it loses. For each rocket that lands, it drops only one bomb in retaliation — as if any aggressor in the history of warfare has ever ceased its attacks on such insane logic.
The other desideratum is the destruction of Israel itself. Iran promised to wipe Israel off the map, and then gave Hezbollah thousands of missiles to fulfill that pledge. In response, the world snored. If tomorrow more powerful rockets hit Tel Aviv armed with Syrian chemicals or biological agents, or Iranian nukes, the “international” community would urge “restraint” — and keep urging it until Israel disappeared altogether. And the day after its disappearance, the Europeans and Arabs would sigh relief, mumble a few pieties, and then smile, “Life goes on.”
And for them, it would very wellNational Review National Review National Review [B]National Review
[/B]
You got to be kidding me with that stuff. Just watch this
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=Propaganda
Originally posted by Robtard
Hezbollah ask Israel to stop because it is losing and their munitions are running low, how benign of them. That's a great tactic in war, 'if you're enemy is losing, stop and let him regroup and rearm.' Utterly illogical. If Israel was losing and they said "Stop!", would Hezbollah stop? Wait, thats right, they have vowed to not stop until Israel is completely gone.Dude, you flip flop back and forth, first Hezbollah kills on accident and they're not terrorist, now they're terrorist; whats next? They're terrorist-lite, they're freedom fighters?
Yes, I did mention religion, Islamic Fundamentalist extremist, they use they're view of Islam as a weapon and as a means to an end. And don't go trying to make excuse for jihadist, these terrorist don't claim jihads in order to spread religion, they use it to validate terrorist acts. On that notion though, you say jihad's are for the purpose of going to war to spread religion... That sounds alright with you? Someone killing you because you differ in religion is acceptable?
I wonder what would you feel like if your relatives were held for 20 years in prison for no reason, or what would you do if your land was taken away from you and your relatives killed(palestine). You would also want to destroy them. Hezbollah in the very beginning when Israel started bombing asked to stop because they had no aim to kill civilians, they took hostages to exchange them for prisoners. And Israel started bombing houses and airport, some good guys, "terrorists fighters", killed 900 civilians.
I do not "flip flop" i'm just curious how you think about it, if you kill inocents by blowing yourself you are a terrorist but if you kill inocents without blowing yourself you are a good guy? And don't start that "accidently bombed houses and kindergardens" argument because it is clearly a bullcrap. And Israel army kills inocent palestinians every day since 1948, that is an accident too?
About religion. That's the thing, they attacked world trade center not because of the difference in religion(there were muslims too by the way), but because they just wanted and they are evil fanatics, the same as others and religion has nothing to do here. What they did they would've done even if they were not muslims. You see, take any seriel killer, in the media they say "the killer murdered blah blah" but when he is muslim in the media it is always "muslim killer did blah blah" as if his religion is the reason of him being crazy psycopath.
I wonder what would you feel like if your relatives were held for 20 years in prison for no reason, or what would you do if your land was taken away from you and your relatives killed(palestine).
Palestine sits atop what was once Isreal. They lost the land when Rome conquered them, and they were all spread about thereafter. At least I believe that's how they lost the land... history is a weakpoint.
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Israel#Jewish-Roman_Wars
Originally posted by VanillaCocaCola
Palestine sits atop what was once Isreal. They lost the land when Rome conquered them, and they were all spread about thereafter. At least I believe that's how they lost the land... history is a weakpoint.EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Israel#Jewish-Roman_Wars
Good old wikipedia...
BOTH peoples lived on that land centuries ago, and you think it is a good reason to kill thousands people, to rape women, to treat them all like dogs and to make them run away?
Originally posted by Sam ZNo. Every country in the world has been formed as a result of conquest. Regardless of what Israel is doing, there are far worse atrocities being commited.
Good old wikipedia...
BOTH peoples lived on that land centuries ago, and you think it is a good reason to kill thousands people, to rape women, to treat them all like dogs and to make them run away?
Originally posted by VanillaCocaCola
No. Every country in the world has been formed as a result of conquest. Regardless of what Israel is doing, there are far worse atrocities being commited.
Ok worse, so now what? Lets kill all palestinians, after all it won't be a big deal comparing to thousands years of people's hystory...
Originally posted by Sam ZWhat the hell are you rambling about?
Ok worse, so now what? Lets kill all palestinians, after all it won't be a big deal comparing to thousands years of people's hystory...
EDIT: Random related link, Hezbollah hiding in Civillian clothing.
Originally posted by Sam Z
I wonder what would you feel like if your relatives were held for 20 years in prison for no reason, or what would you do if your land was taken away from you and your relatives killed(palestine). You would also want to destroy them. Hezbollah in the very beginning when Israel started bombing asked to stop because they had no aim to kill civilians, they took hostages to exchange them for prisoners. And Israel started bombing houses and airport, some good guys, "terrorists fighters", killed 900 civilians.
I do not "flip flop" i'm just curious how you think about it, if you kill inocents by blowing yourself you are a terrorist but if you kill inocents without blowing yourself you are a good guy? And don't start that "accidently bombed houses and kindergardens" argument because it is clearly a bullcrap. And Israel army kills inocent palestinians every day since 1948, that is an accident too?
About religion. That's the thing, they attacked world trade center not because of the difference in religion(there were muslims too by the way), but because they just wanted and they are evil fanatics, the same as others and religion has nothing to do here. What they did they would've done even if they were not muslims. You see, take any seriel killer, in the media they say "the killer murdered blah blah" but when he is muslim in the media it is always "muslim killer did blah blah" as if his religion is the reason of him being crazy psycopath.
Ya, if I were a Lebanese civilian just trying to scrap out a life and a Israeli plane came and bombed my family to death, I'd hate Israel. That is irrelevant though, the reason the plane came and bombed me is because a bunch of terrorist a-holes used my village as a weapons depot and hide among my fellow citizens, so considering that, I should really hate the terrorist who intentional put my family in harms way and intentionally used my family as meat shields so the terrorist could later on say "Look, Israel is killing people for no reason!". But unfortunately, I most likely would not have the luxury of knowing.
I agree, I never said 9/11 was about religion, but the people that did that sort of sh!t justified it under their own personal skewed view of religion. Just as all Islamic fundamentalist terrorist do, including Hezbollah. I am not saying being a Muslim makes you a terrorist and you know that. You didn't answer the question though, you tip-toed around it.
Originally posted by crazy
You got to be kidding me with that stuff. Just watch thishttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=Propaganda
You got to be kidding right and re-posting the same links repeatedly.
Did you check out those 'Pally-Wood' flicks? They're special, fake attacks, fake injuries, fake stories of Israeli atrocities. The very least they could do is make them more believable.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Good old wikipedia...
BOTH peoples lived on that land centuries ago, and you think it is a good reason to kill thousands people, to rape women, to treat them all like dogs and to make them run away?
Debating what Israel does or doesn't do is a moot point, you're going to believe the Israelis are blood thirsty rapist no matter what.
So, what does Israel need to do to appease these terrorist (which is a bad idea, appeasing terrorist only urges them to commit more terrorism)? What would it take to have peace in your eyes?
I feel we should clear some things about Hizbollah. Our western propaganda will have us think that they are evil doers, the most savage creatures in the world. They've done some ugly shit in the past when Israel was in their boarders, no-one can deny that.
But. Ever since Israel left the lebanese boarders, they built infrastructures for their people, including 4 hospitals. During the conflict, they have been running shelters. Those who will have you believe that they don't give a f*ck about their people and only want to see Israel destroyed no matter what cost, is bullsh*t.
Some pratt some pages back, Soleran or whatever the hell his name was said that I was blinded and jaded for thinking the katushyas started landing on Israel after the IDF started bombing. Well you pratt, you are blinded and jaded. The Katushyas were launched AFTER the IAF's first sorties. The Katushays were in retaliation for that. You bomb us, we bomb you. Why in the hell would they start launching Katushyas into Israel after kidnapping two soldiers, if they wanted a prisonner exchange???
They bomb specificaly to hit civilians in retaliation for their own people dying. An eye for an eye. I have seen Israelis saying arabs were animals and that for one Israeli death, 10, 000 arabs should die. In 1995 or 1996, when peace was about to be made between Palestine and Israel, the Israeli prime minister was assassinated by a zealot jew who would have non of it. The current party in power in Israel is from the far right, so don't think for a minute, they're not petty and angry. There are plenty of extremists in Israel as well.
Robtard on this page compared Hezbollah to "people who fly planes into buildings and bomb trains" and use "Islamist extremism" for their own ends. That sounds very much like you're comparing Hezbollah to Al Quaeda. No way is Hezbollah anywhere near as twisted and barbaric as Al Quaeda. They have very little in common.
During the conflict, Al Quaeda's second in command released a video where he said the group supported Hezbollah. Hezbollah responded by saying they didn't want any support from a group of savages who are prone to mass murder of innocents. They want nothing to do with them, and they have nothing to do with them. Of course Bush and Olmert want to create this illusion to justify Israel's attack, but it's all bullsh*t.
I find it amusing how this latest UN proposal was so biased towards Israel after all the sh*t has been happening on the lebanese side. Oh wait, no I'm not, it was made by the US (dunno wtf France was doing). And don't you find it amusing that the returning of the two kidnappings of Israeli soldiers which aledgedly started this conflict wasn't even mentioned in the draft proposal? Just shows that Israel actually didn't give a toss about those two soldiers.