Exar Kun vs. Yoda

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Now you provide more evidence than Lightsnake but how are all of those feat war relevant in 1 on 1 combat?

Yes...how are Yoda's insane fastness, his duelling abilities, his experience in terms of combat and his force powers relevant in a 1 on 1 fight ? Pfft...

Are you telling me Yoda would curbstomp Kun, who not only was a lightsaber prodigy but created his own style?

The same way Mace Windu was a lightsaber prodigy and created his own style (in the age of 13 by the way) and still never managed to surpass Yoda ? Or shall we talk about Depa Billaba who Mace basically saw as his equal in terms of Vaapad use and who, together with two other Jedi, wasn't able to touch Yoda when they attacked him all at once ?

Are you going to tell me Yoda can block amulet blasts? Please explain the "HOW" that nobody else has been able to.

Wow. Please explain to me who should have been able to block them ? The Sith Worm ? Some Massassi ? Or Nadd's spirit who considered himself to be "weak" in his current state and had the amulet rammed into his spectral body ?

I've said that Yoda might be able to dodge set blasts. Is this such a strange idea considering the fact that we've seen Jedi moving faster then blaster bolts (Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in TPM)

ALso, when did YOda jump on DOoku and drive a sword through his head?

In an earlier version of the AotC script, Yoda disarmed Dooku, jumped on his shoulders and was about to drive his lightsaber into Dooku's head. Then Dooku did grap him and brought him down and managed to escape. Still...if you want to go by the version of the AotC script that was finally used the fight is descriped like this:

"Count Dooku whirls his lightsaber in a formal salute. Yoda
draws his lightsaber. Suddenly, Count Dooku charges across
the space at Yoda. He rains down blows upon the tiny
figure. Yoda doesn't budge an inch. For the first part of
the contest, he parries every cut and thrust that Count Dooku aims. Nothing the great swordsman tries gets through.
His energy drains. His strokes become feeble, slower.

Yoda attacks! He flies forward. Count Dooku is forced to
retreat. Words are insufficient to describe the range and
skill of Yoda's speed and swordplay. His lightsaber his a
humming blur of light. Finally, their blades cross and the
fighting slows."

Going by this and the earlier version of the scene, I guess it's pretty much clear that Lucas wanted Yoda to be considerably superior to Dooku - a person that mastered the "ultimate refinement of lightsaber to lightsaber combat" to such an extend that he could defeat Jedi Council Members without any use of the force.

Kun learned an incredible amount in 1 year, and became exponentially more powerful which speaks a lot about the ancient sith..

Talking about irrelevant missdirections: What does this have to do with Kun's 1on1 abilities ? Luke did learn some incredible amount of stuff between ESB and ROTJ (6 month). To be precise he turned from the guy that could only hardly levitate his lightsaber into somebody able to rival Vader.

However(and I'm not saying Kun>Yoda in saber combat), Kun was unmatched in saber combat, and he learned more in 1 year than most people(including the majority of the PT Jedi) learned in their lifetime.

Excuse me: How can you compare the amount of stuff Exar learned to the stuff other people did learn ? Given several centuries of time to learn and the fact that the Jedi Order had several Sith holocrons and other Dark Side knowledge stored in it's archives, Yoda could technically have amassed more Dark Side knowledge then Kun.

And what did Kun display in this category ? He force pushed Sylvar. Great. He used his amulets in two ocassions at least (Sith Worm, Nadd), he mind controlled the Chancellor, possibly force choked Odan Urr and floored Aleema Keto. Kun's greatest feat in terms of force powers was to freeze the Senate and I'd like to point out that Joruus C'baoth who was far below Yoda in terms of force powers (given that he was just a minor PT Jedi) was able to mind control 10,000 people at once. Not to mention that this freezing spell didn't affect the Jedi present in the Senate Chamber.

So...what would Kun do against Yoda exactly ? How does his knowledge help him ?

Now the availability of knowledge, the potential he had, and the amount of knowledge he COULD have gained obviously are irrelevant since this isn't a "What If" scenario, but he did possess tremendous skill and power that are relevant to l1 v 1 combat

If the things he uses in versus fights are limited to some force push, choke and his amulet blasts that won't give him the edge on Yoda exactly. Especially considering the fact that Kun never used some of this against "equal" or "skilled" opponents (Vodo, Ulic).

and as I said previously, the x factor would be his amulet..

And as I said before the Power of the Jedi sourcebook states that Yoda did have the ability to remove the Dark Side from nexus points which would technically include Kun's amulets. I'd like to see what happens to Kun's amulets if that power is used against them.

Then I still would like to see what happens to Kun if somebody who could lift entire mountains up hits him with some force TK - I guess this would hurt.

Can Yoda lift mountains?

He basically did, in the CW cartoons. It's when he goes to rescue Luminara Unduli and her padawan.

Well that's just some rocks....

Two things Nai.

1. You're going to say that "Oh well he never used the amulet against Ulic and Vodo, therefore he can't"? And I'm going to counter that incorrect statement with the fact that he didn't need to use his amulet against Vodo since he was trying to recruit him, and when he didnt he clearly tooled him with his saber, so no need for the amulet..
2. I was under the assumption that Jedi WERE present, unless you're going to tell me they came out of nowhere (Cay, Nomi). While I have a hard time believing Kun could freeze Jedi, it didn't seem like they came out of nowhere.

Exar's shown he can use the amulet to deliver unfatal blasts...and what Nai is saying is Kun WON'T use the amulet in mano a mano combat. And 'clearly tooled' Vodo? According to Vodo, he wanted to turn Kun back to the light side and couldn't bring himself to harm his former apprentice. And Kun was tying Ulic and was there to kill him

And the Jedi were in the senate...and still moving after the Sith Spell thing

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Exar's shown he can use the amulet to deliver unfatal blasts...and what Nai is saying is Kun WON'T use the amulet in mano a mano combat. And 'clearly tooled' Vodo? According to Vodo, he wanted to turn Kun back to the light side and couldn't bring himself to harm his former apprentice. And Kun was tying Ulic and was there to kill him

And the Jedi were in the senate...and still moving after the Sith Spell thing

Ok so the Jedi point is moot, ok. Nai proved that which was just a question. And please don't question Vodo being tooled because that is the general belief and has been confirmed many times by everyone on this forum. That's as bad as saying Mace didn't use Vaapad. Kun tried to recruit Vodo and when he couldn't, he tooled him. And Nai did NOT say Kun won't use the amulet. Nai said that Yoda could POSSIBLY block it, or dodge it. While that is a possibility, it's not a very good one just because "Yoda knows everything yoda is uber Yoda can take the dark side away from anything". I'm glad that quote is sooooo conclusive but unfortunately we only have one instance of someone doing something close to that, and that would be DE Luke.

What part of me not giving a damn about the 'general belief' is unclear? Vodo himself confirmed that he was there to try to help Kun turn from the dark and couldn't bring himself to really fight Exar. His spirit from the JA trilogy, btw.

And there's a good chance Yoda can block/take care of the amulet...if these amulets were so uber, the Jedi would've been exterminated by the Sith long ago. We know Yoda is faster than Jedi who could dodge lasers, we know Yoda can restrict dark side energies with objects and nexuses...and we know Exar has never used the amulet once he's activated his saber

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What part of me not giving a damn about the 'general belief' is unclear? Vodo himself confirmed that he was there to try to help Kun turn from the dark and couldn't bring himself to really fight Exar. His spirit from the JA trilogy, btw.

And there's a good chance Yoda can block/take care of the amulet...if these amulets were so uber, the Jedi would've been exterminated by the Sith long ago. We know Yoda is faster than Jedi who could dodge lasers, we know Yoda can restrict dark side energies with objects and nexuses...and we know Exar has never used the amulet once he's activated his saber

What part of "You have no argument" do YOU not understand? Vodo also said "I must finish this", what is your point? Your argument about Vodo is completely invalid, and so are your attempts to diminish Kun's character. And again, the reason I don't argue with you anymore is because of stupid statements like "If the amulets were so uber, the Sith wouldn't have been exterminated". That's as dumb as one of Lewis Black's jokes about seeing a woman who said "If it weren't for my horse, I would have gone to college"? You see what i'm saying, your statement is beyond ridiculous. And yet the other point about Kun not using the amulet after he's activated his saber. Great job trying to be technical and making an irrelevant point. However your point dies with the fact that Kun has shown to use the amulet only when he's had to, so your ridiculous technicalities in order to discredit Kun, don't work. You've taken Absence of proof to a whole new level. Now please let Nai argue, because you have not made a single valid point.

when'd Vodo say "I must finish this?"
By Vodo's own admission, he couldn't ever really fight Kun."

And no, the statement isn't ridiculous: If the amulets were totally unblockable and always worked, a complete race of amulet users would never have been defeated in wars.

Read the Jedi Academy trilogy, because Vodo's spirit tells Luke what happened.

Show me, just one time, when Kun used the amulet when he was in an actual battle. He did it once, at Nadd's urging to save his life when facing a Sith Wyrm hundreds of times his size before he mastered the powers of the Sith. From that point on? Nothing when he goes after Ood, nothing when he goes after Ulic, nothing when he goes after Vodo...that's three saber duels and no amulet in sight

Originally posted by Lightsnake
when'd Vodo say "I must finish this?"
By Vodo's own admission, he couldn't ever really fight Kun."

And no, the statement isn't ridiculous: If the amulets were totally unblockable and always worked, a complete race of amulet users would never have been defeated in wars.

Read the Jedi Academy trilogy, because Vodo's spirit tells Luke what happened.

Show me, just one time, when Kun used the amulet when he was in an actual battle. He did it once, at Nadd's urging to save his life when facing a Sith Wyrm hundreds of times his size before he mastered the powers of the Sith. From that point on? Nothing when he goes after Ood, nothing when he goes after Ulic, nothing when he goes after Vodo...that's three saber duels and no amulet in sight

Yes, he used it once, meaning he COULD use it when he needed to, so your proof of ignorance and absence of proof is irrelevant. And again, because 1 amulet was completely powerful, does NOT state that EVERY amulet was completely powerful, and has absolutely NO Bearing on the sith going extinct. Let me play your stupid game for a second, what is an amulet going to do when the Republic simply outmans the sith empire? Not to mention Sadow was a shitty tactician, threw all of his eggs into one basket, amulets are useless from outer space, etc.. Your point is moot.

He COULD, but as we've been shown he won't and considering he was unable to claim an advantage over Ulic, that would've been the ideal time to use it.

And Exar's hand me down inherited amulet was powerful but the amulets used by the top Sith Lords of the ancient races wouldn't be? Did they wear them for ceremonial decoration?

And considering we know the Jedi sent fighters to combat the Sith directly, a line of Kissai firing blasts at the advancing Jedi might help...and Sadow left some forces back home, not to mention Ludo Kressh's possible faction.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He COULD, but as we've been shown he won't and considering he was unable to claim an advantage over Ulic, that would've been the ideal time to use it.

And Exar's hand me down inherited amulet was powerful but the amulets used by the top Sith Lords of the ancient races wouldn't be? Did they wear them for ceremonial decoration?

And considering we know the Jedi sent fighters to combat the Sith directly, a line of Kissai firing blasts at the advancing Jedi might help...and Sadow left some forces back home, not to mention Ludo Kressh's possible faction.

No no my pet, he WONT is your assumption, and it is baseless. You conveniently forgot that Ulic had the mate of Kun's amulet, and that they were stalemating the entire time, meaning Kun was in no danger.
Yes, the sith lords wore them for ceremonial decoration, to pass knowledge down to future generations, to channel their force abilities, or all of the above. Just because you find it convenient for your argument doesn't mean they all did the same thing. Now, considering the fact that "Sadow left his empire unguarded", and Sadow and Kressh were at war, the amulets have absolutely no bearing on the sith being exterminated. They were exterminated for the simple fact that they were not ready to deal with the republic directly yet. Sadow and Ragnos could have been the most powerful force users ever, but when you're heavily outmanned and outmaneuvered, force abilities tend NOT to matter.

The amulets didn't start acting up until Kun and Ulic were dueling very evenly...and no, a stalemate in a duel to the death? You're very much in danger as any experienced fighter would know, since, y'know, stalemates can end in a nanosecond

Right, the Sith Lords wore amulets for ceremonial decorations,mmmhmm. We know Odan fought Sith LORDS...And no, sorry, if they had magical amulets that could fire blasts infallibly, they'd never have lost and that's fact. Oh, and when the Republic attacked the Sith worlds? Kressh was dead, Sadow believed so.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The amulets didn't start acting up until Kun and Ulic were dueling very evenly...and no, a stalemate in a duel to the death? You're very much in danger as any experienced fighter would know, since, y'know, stalemates can end in a nanosecond

Right, the Sith Lords wore amulets for ceremonial decorations,mmmhmm. We know Odan fought Sith LORDS...And no, sorry, if they had magical amulets that could fire blasts infallibly, they'd never have lost and that's fact. Oh, and when the Republic attacked the Sith worlds? Kressh was dead, Sadow believed so.

Yes, a stalemate in a duel to the death, unless your opinion>description of the fight? There are many reasons he could have not used the amulet or didn't, and one being that Ulic had the other amulet. So your point is moot.

No lightsnake, the fact that they have amulets that blast through walls and would come in handy in a 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 fight have absolutely no bearing on them losing a war, so your point is ridiculous as usual. And you conveniently forgot that the Republic hunted the sith to extinction after the Hyperspace War, so what exactly is an amulet or even 10 or even 50 going to do in space, against a Republic army? Stop trying so hard.

Why would having another amulet hurt at all? Kun clearly thought the others were no threat and hadn't learned a fraction of what he did.

And if a single amulet blast can wipe out a battalion of Jedi...especially when the Republic would, y'know, have to assault the worlds directly...the Republic and Jedi assaulted the Sith Worlds, y'know

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Why would having another amulet hurt at all? Kun clearly thought the others were no threat and hadn't learned a fraction of what he did.

And if a single amulet blast can wipe out a battalion of Jedi...especially when the Republic would, y'know, have to assault the worlds directly...the Republic and Jedi assaulted the Sith Worlds, y'know

Oh REALLY lightsnake, is that why Kun said "He must have this amulet's counterpart, he is DEFINITELY a thread to my work". Moot point.

A single amulet blast can wipe out a battalion of Jedi? Where are you getting this? A single blast can wipe out anything in its path but a battalion? Come on lightsnake, give it up.

"Nadd only taught you the beginning of the Sith, woman! But I have learned everything!"

Seriously, since everyone raves about these godly,m unblockable, instant, continuous amulets...

That's nice lightsnake but I just provided the quote for Kun's reaction to Ulic having the other amulet, so as usual, you have no argument.

Of course they could potentially be a threat to him. Kun didn't think they were at present, though...if he did, why'd he go with just two Massassi?