Originally posted by Darth Sexy
1. You're going to say that "Oh well he never used the amulet against Ulic and Vodo, therefore he can't"? And I'm going to counter that incorrect statement with the fact that he didn't need to use his amulet against Vodo since he was trying to recruit him, and when he didnt he clearly tooled him with his saber, so no need for the amulet..
No. I'm not going to say that. I just pointed out that Kun never used the amulet(s) in a real fight against another force user. Hence we simply can't say if a force user can block the beams or dodge them. You might ask yourself the following question: If those beams can't be dodged or blocked then why do we have all the ancients (sometimes the worst archenemies) running around with at least two of those amulets without killing anybody else in the Empire that is in their way to become the Dark Lord ?
2. I was under the assumption that Jedi WERE present, unless you're going to tell me they came out of nowhere (Cay, Nomi). While I have a hard time believing Kun could freeze Jedi, it didn't seem like they came out of nowhere.
WTF ? Did somebody say something different ? No. I said that the freezing spell didn't work on Jedi since they were present but weren't affected. And can you please stop this "just 2 things, Nai" postings giving some entire useless comments but instead answer my questions ?
And Nai did NOT say Kun won't use the amulet. Nai said that Yoda could POSSIBLY block it, or dodge it. While that is a possibility, it's not a very good one just because "Yoda knows everything yoda is uber Yoda can take the dark side away from anything". I'm glad that quote is sooooo conclusive but unfortunately we only have one instance of someone doing something close to that, and that would be DE Luke.
Care to read my posts ?
I've said Yoda would possibly able to dodge them because we've seen minor Jedi being able to move faster than blaster bolts and we've seen Yoda moving fast enough to deflect blasterfire from 6 semi-automatic blaster rifles fired at him.
So how exactly is Kun going to hit him ? The other way around I could say that because Yoda is more powerful than Odan and has shown his ability to force push Sith Lords around like ragdolls he would floor Exar with a force attack and then strike him down. Please...
If you want to argue just based on "But Kun does have his amulet" then better stop trying...
First of all, my argument is that the X factor could be the amulet, that is all, plain and simple Nai.. Secondly, what in the world makes you think that just because various sith lords in the ancient sith empire have amulets, that they have the exact same powers that Sadow's had? Let's forget that Sadow was the most powerful of the ancient sith after Ragnos. In fact, nobody even said ALL of the ancient sith are uber, we only see a few best of the best, while the rest(with or without amulets) are average, above average, or below average. I see your point in the fact that nobody is going to run around using amulet blasts on everybody, but I can also counter that by saying that even if somebody did, the ancient sith created these amulets, and their abilities to channel the force through amulets, so THEY would more than likely have a defense for them. But we HAVE seen Exar Kun use the blast only when he really needed to, have we not? And yes, Yoda could probably dodge them, but if youre saying that Yoda could most likely block them because "Yoda knows all, Yoda can stop the dark side, etc", then you're wrong, although it is possible. And again, sith amulets were used for a few things, not only channeling the force through them or augmenting force abilities. They were also used to pass down history to future generations.. So the fact that we see a lot of sith lords using them, means absolutely nothing.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
If Naga was so powerful, why was he stalemating Ludo Kressh?And gee, a race of power mongerers giving a damn about passing information down and not increasing their own powers as Kun's amulet did both. Right
Why was he stalemating Ludo? Because perhaps they were equally as powerful? Thanks for your irrelevant remark. And yes lightsnake, what a concept. These same power mongerers that want to ensure the power of the sith remains for future generations.. Your point is moot.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
First of all, my argument is that the X factor could be the amulet, that is all, plain and simple Nai..
Yes...and you have nothing to back that "argument" up while I have given you multiple arguments why the amulet won't be the "x factor" and you seem to be inable to counter one of them...
Secondly, what in the world makes you think that just because various sith lords in the ancient sith empire have amulets, that they have the exact same powers that Sadow's had?
The mere fact that those amulets are descriped as being "deadly" in general.
Let's forget that Sadow was the most powerful of the ancient sith after Ragnos. In fact, nobody even said ALL of the ancient sith are uber, we only see a few best of the best, while the rest(with or without amulets) are average, above average, or below average. I see your point in the fact that nobody is going to run around using amulet blasts on everybody, but I can also counter that by saying that even if somebody did, the ancient sith created these amulets, and their abilities to channel the force through amulets, so THEY would more than likely have a defense for them.
There is still the funny fact that there were "civil wars" among the Sith and their forces (Massassi). How would that have went if technically every Sith Lord can wipe out armies by using some amulet blasts ? We've already seen even mutated Massassi being desintegrated when some of Kun's blasts did casually hit one of them.
And see...the point that the Ancient Sith may had some defence against the amulet is the crux of the entire discussion since Yoda had access to plenty of "Ancient Sith" material stored within the temple on Coruscant. Aside of that we've already seen that some blast of Ulic's amulet (which is the "sister amulet" of Kun's) did nothing more than put Nomi Sunrider on her knees. What would the same energy blast do to Yoda then ?
But we HAVE seen Exar Kun use the blast only when he really needed to, have we not?
Did he need to exterminate Nadd's spirit by blasting him with the amulet ?
And yes, Yoda could probably dodge them, but if youre saying that Yoda could most likely block them because "Yoda knows all, Yoda can stop the dark side, etc", then you're wrong, although it is possible.
Funny how I never said this, isn't it ?
And again, sith amulets were used for a few things, not only channeling the force through them or augmenting force abilities. They were also used to pass down history to future generations.. So the fact that we see a lot of sith lords using them, means absolutely nothing.
Sorry...but if some Jedi tells us that "Sith amulets are deadly" then they are deadly. I really don't think that every Sith Lord in the Ancient Sith Empire carried his personal historical library around his wrists. Especially not since the amulets seem to be used to empower the Sith swords as you can see when Sadow and Kressh are fighting.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Yes...and you have nothing to back that "argument" up while I have given you multiple arguments why the amulet won't be the "x factor" and you seem to be inable to counter one of them...
What exactly do you mean I am unable to counter them? You are saying that he WON't use his amulet blasts, and I'm saying that he CAN and if he does, it is unlikely Yoda can block them. how is that NOT countering your argument of "He won't"?
The mere fact that those amulets are descriped as being "deadly" in general.
There is still the funny fact that there were "civil wars" among the Sith and their forces (Massassi). How would that have went if technically every Sith Lord can wipe out armies by using some amulet blasts ? We've already seen even mutated Massassi being desintegrated when some of Kun's blasts did casually hit one of them.And see...the point that the Ancient Sith may had some defence against the amulet is the crux of the entire discussion since Yoda had access to plenty of "Ancient Sith" material stored within the temple on Coruscant. Aside of that we've already seen that some blast of Ulic's amulet (which is the "sister amulet" of Kun's) did nothing more than put Nomi Sunrider on her knees. What would the same energy blast do to Yoda then ?
Did he need to exterminate Nadd's spirit by blasting him with the amulet ?
Funny how I never said this, isn't it ?
Sorry...but if some Jedi tells us that "Sith amulets are deadly" then they are deadly. I really don't think that every Sith Lord in the Ancient Sith Empire carried his personal historical library around his wrists. Especially not since the amulets seem to be used to empower the Sith swords as you can see when Sadow and Kressh are fighting. [/B]
Again, I said the MOSt powerful sith most likely created deadly amulets, not EVERY ancient sith. You cannot sit there and tell me that all amulets do the same thing.
Logical deduction perhaps. Absence of proof is proof of absence now? When did said Sith Lords ever have a reason to use them? And when was it confirmed Simus was powerful? If losing half your body will cut down your force abilities heavily, being just a head is really, really going to damage your force potential.
Your argument consists of absence of proof lightsnake. The Sith lords didn't have a reason to use them. Ever thought that they never used them because the ancient sith had a defense for them, therefore there would be no purpose? And it was pretty much confirmed for the simple fact that as a talking head, Simus was the most respected on the council.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, so the Ancient Sith had a defense for them, but the Jedi who focused on creating defensive manuevers did not?
And the comic itself said Simus was respected for his wisdom, nothing regarding power ever came into the equation
Gee lightsnake, another no brainer on your argument.. Lets see, the creators of the attack had a defense for it, while the Jedi who have never seen such a blast did not? Yea sounds about right thanks for proving my point. Yes lightsnake, someone on the sith council is there for his wisdom, but can be a complete weakling.. The fact that he was a talking head on the council speaks about his wisdom.
The Jedi would've seen them in the big war against the Sith, don't you think? After all, Jedi a thousand years later knew enough about Sith amulets to recognize them right off.
And Simus is killed by a blaster bolt which he saw comic. The comic says Simus was respected for nobility and wisdom. Prove he was powerful
Really? Who recognized the blast exactly? Oh that's right, nobody, because the sith didn't exactly shoot blasts out of their ass, nor even most likely used them during their golden age, since they can defend them. And prove that Simus was powerful? The fact that he fought Ragnos for title of DLOTS says enough, the other? He trained Naga Sadow.. Point proven.
Qrrl toq?
"Nomi, he's using a Sith amulet, they're deadly!"
And Simus fought Ragnos under what circumstances? How old were they at the time? Why would he be powerful as a head with most of his body and midichlorians gone as it's SW fact that you have to be mostly organic to be powerful in the Force? Naga called simus his mentor...before or after his defeat? In what fashion? We know Naga was mostly independent by the time we meet him, so?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Qrrl toq?
"Nomi, he's using a Sith amulet, they're deadly!"
And Simus fought Ragnos under what circumstances? How old were they at the time? Why would he be powerful as a head with most of his body and midichlorians gone as it's SW fact that you have to be mostly organic to be powerful in the Force? Naga called simus his mentor...before or after his defeat? In what fashion? We know Naga was mostly independent by the time we meet him, so?
Oh yea? Because that explains that they've seen blasts? Or does that explain that the Jedi know they're deadly? Nice point lightsnake.
Oh lord, you are bringing in midichlorians into the conversation? Priceless. And Simus fighting Ragnos says more for him than for Sadow and Kressh. Sadow was trained by Simus.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What exactly do you mean I am unable to counter them? You are saying that he WON't use his amulet blasts, and I'm saying that he CAN and if he does, it is unlikely Yoda can block them. how is that NOT countering your argument of "He won't"?
a) Yoda can most likely dodge the blasts
b) Yoda can give Kun so much trouble that Kun won't even have time to use the amulets
c) Yoda can remove the Dark Side energy from the amulets making them worthless
d) Nomi Sunrider as it seems could partitially block the "deadly" blast from Ulic's amulet - why shouldn't Yoda be able to do the same ?
Where exactly do they describe every amulet from the ancient sith as deadly? As far as I'm concerned, only the most powerful ancient sith created deadly amulets..
DLotS when Nomi and her friends confront Ulic one of them warns them with the words "He has a Sith amulet...they are deadly". So as it seems all Sith amulets encountered so far were deadly. And "the most powerful ancient Sith" ? How many would that be ? Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh who's Sadow's equal, Simus, the Dark Lord that ruled before Ragnos, maybe Ajunta Pall who could construct a blade with so much power that it basically dominated him ? All other members of the Sith council ? Every skilled practioner of Sith Alchemy ? Dozens or even hundrets of people in the history of the Ancient Sith Empire ?
That's exactly MY point. You make it seem that every single amulet that is made, is created to do the exact same thing as Sadow's amulet. Where in the world do you get all of this information from, since when does every amulet have to act the way Sadow's does? And again, amulets and talismans were described in DLOTS as a way to pass down history from one generation to the next, so what is your point Nai?
The point is that your consequently ignoring the fact that the very same amulets used to "pass down history" are the ones descriped as "deadly" and one of them was used by Kun to destroy the Sith monster and exterminated Nadd's spirit. So what ? And DLotS states that this two amulets were used to carry down the message to later times - not all amulets.
And now you can explain to me why some Sith Lords should carry amulets around that were just used to store historical information. Would you carry a history book around your neck for fun ? I don't think so.
Again, I said the MOSt powerful sith most likely created deadly amulets, not EVERY ancient sith. You cannot sit there and tell me that all amulets do the same thing.
And you can't sit here and tell me that they all carried around these amulets for fun or because they did look nice. If they are commonly descriped as "deadly" tools then - I guess - they can do something "deadly". That they can generate blasts of Dark Side energy is the most likely guess, isn't it - especially when we've seen that the only two amulets we've seen "in use" are doing this exactly...
Again, two things Nai. The simple fact that the sith didn't use their amulets(whether they were ALL deadly or not), was the fact that they obviously had a defense for them. Ok...?So explain what Yoda removing the dark side of the amulet would really mean for the blast? I'd like to hear it?
And what exactly does Nomi block? I see her falling back, not to mention the amulet released a different kind of energy than the other one.