the comic narraration says "A few Jedi" and we only see four arriving on Coruscant and fighting...
And I think Nai summed up how Yoda can compete with Kun:
he's stronger, faster, more agile, at least as good with a saber, force knowledge-a guy who found Sadow's stuff has more knowledge than the guy studying from the most prized Sith and Jedi holocrons for centuries? Okay- and is the strongest Jedi of an era that trumped Kun's for strength.
Really, pal...Yoda is a saber and force master too
Originally posted by Borbarad
This is so "funny" I don't know if I should laugh at it.a)
In a sheer force contest Yoda would limit himself to "defensive" force use as we have already seen when he duelled his "worst enemy". I don't see him using any "aggressive" force techniques - some force TK at max. Nothing that would be really dangerous for Kun. Even if he does - we've already seen Kun simply resisting a wall of light attack by Odan Urr.b)
Kun's amulets will most likely work. The question is if he would use them fighting another Jedi Master (which is debateable) and if Yoda would be able to block the blasts.
Well...I, personally, don't think that Kun would use them for the single reason that he prefers duelling "worthy" opponents with his lightsaber. But let's assume he does. I don't know if Yoda can simply deflect those blasts (but I'll doubt it since a casual blasts of energy from a similar amulet was enough to floor Nomi Sunrider who was possibly the most gifted force user of her time). On the other hand I doubt that one of that blasts would kill Yoda and he's fast enough to dodge the beams if needed. So we can pretty much ignore the amulets.c)
In a lightsaber confrontation it's getting tricky. Kun is perhabs the best lightsaber duellist the Sith ever had (except Tulak Hord), equipped with a unique weapon and a unique style. On the other hand you have Yoda who is capable of dodging lightsaber attacks from three different opponents (one of them a Vaapad master) at once as seen in "ShadowHunter".Conclusion:
Really. I don't see anybody "pwning" the other in this fight. If somebody wins I'd say Kun because he might surprise Yoda with some amulet blast or finally outduel him because (I guess) Yoda would get tired faster because of his age and the fact that he uses a fighting style which requires tons of energy. On the other hand Yoda might also surprise Kun with his agility (most people tend to underestimate Yoda) and force strength. I don't know. But saying "Kun pwns Yoda" is pretty much stupid. Sorry...
Forget this statement conveniently? Thought so. And lightsnake you really need to learn how to debate. I never said Yoda isn't a force/saber master. I love the muppet and personally think he pwns. But there are certain people he cannot contend against, and one of them is Exar Kun, whether it's Kun's dark side/sith mastery, or saber combat+strength. At the very end, at Yoda's absolute best, he MIGHT be able to stalemate Kun via saber fight(but unlikely), Kun still has his amulet and sith magic to fall back on.
Forget what he said to you?
And big deal, Yoda has the force to 'fall abck on' and his knowledge exceeds Kun's by sheer virtue of studying what the light and dark for over eight hundred years. And where did you get the idea of Kun's saber mastery being so godly? He's never fought someone to the level of Yoda. Yoda's once again: Faster, more agile and likely stronger and was the undisputed best of the best era of dueling...and was one of two Jedi to be able to defeat Mace Windu.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Forget what he said to you?And big deal, Yoda has the force to 'fall abck on' and his knowledge exceeds Kun's by sheer virtue of studying what the light and dark for over eight hundred years. And where did you get the idea of Kun's saber mastery being so godly? He's never fought someone to the level of Yoda. Yoda's once again: Faster, more agile and likely stronger and was the undisputed best of the best era of dueling...and was one of two Jedi to be able to defeat Mace Windu.
Force to fall back on? Knowledge exceeds Kun? How is this even a debate on your part anymore? Why are you adding this nonsense that means nothing in a saber fight? Yoda studied for 800 years, so all of a sudden he knows more than Kun by that fact? I didn't know quantity>Quality. I guess you conveniently forgot that Kun had all of the teachings of the ancient sith, through them and the Holocron, and limitless knowledge from Ossus.. Forget that part lightsnake? Kun is a lightsaber prodigy that is unmatched, where do you mean where I got it? It's fact, why after all this time are you bringing it up. Another attempt at misdirection maybe? And again, you think Yoda>Vodo which is your opinion, so obviously you don't think he's fought anyone on Yoda's level.. Oh but you conveniently forgot about Qel Droma, who was on his level while Kun didn't hit his apex yet. Yoda being faster, maybe maybe not, more agile, perhaps.. Stronger? Unlikely.. Beating Mace? Wow.. Read the Exar Kun vs. Mace Windu threads where they all state Mace would get beat, or tooled, I can't remember.. So far you have added very little that would prove Yoda's victory over an ancient DLOTS.. VERY Little...
I'm using logic, pal. And all of the teachings of the Ancients? I'd love to see that substantiated...he had Sadow's teachings...that's 'all' the Ancient Sith had?
and nno, Yoda does>Vodo, since he's outright stated to be the strongest Jedi. and et something through your skull: I don't CARE about the other threads and what the others say.
And yeah, Yoda's stronger...when Kun carries a gatling gun the size of a small house on his back without any strain, we can talk. And maybe you forget THIS, pal:
When'd Kun USE the holocron? He destroyed it without ever looking into it. when'd Kun use that knowledge from Ossus? He died how long after getting it? A few hours perhaps? And where was it said Kun was unmatched? So was Yoda, big deal....and last I checked, Ulic was matching Kun with a saber. Kun didn't 'hit his apex' yet? Right, that's a cop-out...Kun was already studying through what the Ancients had to offer...to quote him: "I have learned everything!"
Now, Yoda is able to move so fast he dismantles an army of super battle droids before most of them can react. Yoda is the strongest maste rin the Jedi Golden age and has access to all of the Jedi Holocrons and knowledge and all of the Sith holocrons and knowledge, including Adas's Holocron, which is the most treasured Holocron of all the Ancient Sith. Sure, Exar collected a Sith Holocron and stuff from Ossus...but he never used any of them, he never learned from them at all considered he destroyed the Sith holocron almost immediately and was trapped in total darkness hours after acquiring his prizes from Ossus.
It's not a debate anymore: Yoda was declared the strongest foe the darkness had ever known and the strongest Jedi Master who ever lived up to the PT, that's canon under the rules of the Holocron
And again, you think Yoda>Vodo which is your opinion, so obviously you don't think he's fought anyone on Yoda's level..
I really don't even see how Vodo is on Yoda's level. At most he's the "Yoda of Kun's era", yet he's not as powerful. As he was utterly tooled by Exar Kun whereas I see Yoda actually having a chance (though I'd give Kun the advantage).
Stronger? Unlikely..
Yoda was capable of carrying a humongous gatling gun on his back in the CW comic. While he hasn't demonstrated much strength on screen, the fact is that the Force clearly enhances your strength. While Kun has more strength in his body than Yoda ever would without the Force (lifting the Chancellor up with ONE HAND by his head, breaking Vodo's staff twice, pushing Sylvar's face in) - the Force clearly can allow Yoda to compete in strength.
Let me give you examples of how our arguments go..
Me: Trying to use deductive reasoning.
You: Trying to use quotes, assumptions, and irrelevant misdirection... Now..
Maybe it was an exaggeration about Kun learning all from the ancient sith, but Kun specifically stated that he knew all from Sadow, which would already put him in the category of "more knowledge than Yoda". If not, then see Ossus.. Next.
I don't care if you don't care about the other thread. The crap and text you spew out has no bearing on versus threads, ESPECIALLY DEALING WITH ANCIENT SITH.. Now... Yoda being stronger than Kun is mindless speculation, nothing more.. Now... Trying to diminish Kun with absence of proof.. Lets see, the holocron belonged to the DLOTS and Kun had access to it. I guarantee you that logic states 100% that Kun used the holocron for that knowledge.. Now... As for Ossus, you're going to tell me he died shortly afterwards? I'm glad you know the specific time.. Yet he did have the knowledge accessible and it's logical that he viewed at least some of it.. That's more than you can say for Yoda.. Kun never actually used what he collected? Boy lightsnake, your argument is dying fast.. Adas' holocron is the most sacred out of them all? Nice speculation. Now, you have obviously lost this argument so I will leave you with one more thing because you really are thick headed and can't seem to understand simple concepts, especially since your argument is as good as the text you provide..
Yoda being the strongest foe darkness has ever known means NOTHING. That doesn't put him above ANY dark side users, in fact this statement just destroys your argument more. All it means is Dark sider users would have more trouble with Yoda, than with ANY other lightside users until Luke(which is true). In absolutely NO way does it state anything relevant, so you're right, this debate is over.. And Kun>Yoda.
Originally posted by Motoko Sama
I really don't even see how Vodo is on Yoda's level. At most he's the "Yoda of Kun's era", yet he's not as powerful. As he was utterly tooled by Exar Kun whereas I see Yoda actually having a chance (though I'd give Kun the advantage).Yoda was capable of carrying a humongous gatling gun on his back in the CW comic. While he hasn't demonstrated much strength on screen, the fact is that the Force clearly enhances your strength. While Kun has more strength in his body than Yoda ever would without the Force (lifting the Chancellor up with ONE HAND by his head, breaking Vodo's staff twice, pushing Sylvar's face in) - the Force clearly can allow Yoda to compete in strength.
Sama, notice how I didn't say Kun>Yoda in strength? I simply said Yoda>Kun according to lightsnake is pure speculation.
vodo: Foe of the Darkness
all Jedi: Foes of the Darkness
Yoda: The STRONGEST Foe of the Darkness
Yoda: Stronger than all other Jedi
Notice you neglect Yoda actually being called the strongest Jedi master, you keep ignoring that one
And that holocron belonged to the DLOTS? Odan-Ur owned it for a thousand years, pal. Explain how Kun could use what he collected when he physically died and was trapped in darkness almost IMMEDIATELY after he left Ossus! Kun left Ossus shortly before the Jedi did-notice the lack of time? Meaning the Jedi chased him back to Yavin and they were only shortly behind him...so, yeah, very short time. That's logic, pal.
And no, Adas's holocron being the best and most sacred was said in Evil Never Dies...that's where Adas came from, pal. And once again, pal: Where was it stated Kun learned everything? He knew what Sadow had, Sadow- all Sith? I'm sure that wall full of Sith holocrons Yoda accessed to learn more on the Dark Side as a master paled in comparison to the knowledge Sadow had on his ship...y'know, including the 100,000 years in Adas's holocron...
You lose, brat
Originally posted by Lightsnake
vodo: Foe of the Darkness
all Jedi: Foes of the Darkness
Yoda: The STRONGEST Foe of the Darkness
Yoda: Stronger than all other Jedi
Notice you neglect Yoda actually being called the strongest Jedi master, you keep ignoring that oneAnd that holocron belonged to the DLOTS? Odan-Ur owned it for a thousand years, pal. Explain how Kun could use what he collected when he physically died and was trapped in darkness almost IMMEDIATELY after he left Ossus! Kun left Ossus shortly before the Jedi did-notice the lack of time? Meaning the Jedi chased him back to Yavin and they were only shortly behind him...so, yeah, very short time. That's logic, pal.
And no, Adas's holocron being the best and most sacred was said in Evil Never Dies...that's where Adas came from, pal. And once again, pal: Where was it stated Kun learned everything? He knew what Sadow had, Sadow- all Sith? I'm sure that wall full of Sith holocrons Yoda accessed to learn more on the Dark Side as a master paled in comparison to the knowledge Sadow had on his ship...y'know, including the 100,000 years in Adas's holocron...
You lose, brat
Arguing with facts lightsnake? So since your argument is destroyed by your apparent immatury and denial(you lose brat), instead of insulting you and pointing out your transparent faults, I'll just break your illogical fanboy argument down 1 last time.. Let me start..
1. Odan Urr specifically stated that the Holocron is only accessible by a DLOTS, so you lose that argument.
2. I love how you twists events around to actually have your argument make sense. Kun had the holocron for an x amount of time, then he went to Yavin and then smashed it sometime later. The fact that you say he dies almost instantly afterwards, is retarded. Plus you again mix your facts around to prove your point(mission failed), considering Kun didn't go to Ossus until much later.
3. Your logic=not logic.. Your logic=your logic=fanboyism.
4. I specifically stated that he learned everything from Sadow, and you even confirmed my quote, now you are just looking foolish by contradicting yourself for the millionth time.
5. Show me the quote that states Adas' holocron is the most sacred one, and please don't make shit up like you have a tendency to do..
6. How is Adas' holocron even considered more sacred considering the fact that he was alive before the DLOTS, before the apex of sith power? Your point is moot..
7. Since when does it state Adas' holocron that it dated back to 100,000 years, because that is exactly what was said about the holocron that Odan Urr had, so again your point is defeated.
Since you lack the maturity to continue debating and losing arguments, I'll just say "pwned" one time, and let this argument speak for itself.
Lightsnake's right on the matter of Yoda actually being the strongest Jedi up to that point. However, that doesn't grant Yoda an instant victory against Exar, but it certainly gives him a nice chance considering who all those Jedi are.
Kun's knowledge certainly was extensive ("Exar Kun has more knowledge and wealth than he can ever hope to use" or something) however he didn't have years to study what the Massassi raided from Ossus considering the Jedi practically form up to attack Exar Kun right after Ulic kills Cay and reveals Kun's location, it doesn't leave much time for Exar to actually study or put that knowledge to use (I'd submit if he would've had even a month to study, he could've done something to save himself).
The rest of you guys' argument...I'm lost, lol. But stop throwing the insults around and stick straight to debating (you can always throw a tad of sarcasm in, but the ways you're replies are is over doing it).
WHAT facts? Odan was accessing the damned holocron...in GAOTS, notice this? "The holocron has finallygiven up its secrets"
Exar Kun destroyed it almost as soon as he got it, HE NEVER USED IT.
Kun was also surrounded by twenty young Jedi at the time...he got it for the purpose of destroying it. and are you just not reading? What he got from Ossus-and died immediately thereafter- and the Holocron are two seperate events
Logic is something you've never had, brat. You ignore any point that doesn't fit with yours, I've given you evidence and reasoning, you respond with nothing bit ridicule and bratty ad hominem.
"The Rakata taught the ancient King how to craft a pyramid shaped device known as a holocron." Adas's was the first Sith holocron...and considering it's the holocron of the guy the Sith WORSHIPPED AS A GOD...
OH, ad "The Mecrosa order later sought to recover the most sacred holocron." y'know, when talking about Adas's
Adas was so powerful and renowned, he was hailed as a God and fought off the rakata...Holocrons were around before the Dark Lords, you know.
Odan Ur's holocron contained 100,000 years worth of knowledge...once more, Kun got a holocron he never used, ooooh! Yoda had a gallery full of them.
And since you're an idiot, I'll say **** off, brat, one time and celebrate my victory.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
WHAT facts? Odan was accessing the damned holocron...in GAOTS, notice this? "The holocron has finallygiven up its secrets"
Exar Kun destroyed it almost as soon as he got it, HE NEVER USED IT.
Kun was also surrounded by twenty young Jedi at the time...he got it for the purpose of destroying it. and are you just not reading? What he got from Ossus-and died immediately thereafter- and the Holocron are two seperate events
Logic is something you've never had, brat. You ignore any point that doesn't fit with yours, I've given you evidence and reasoning, you respond with nothing bit ridicule and bratty ad hominem.
"The Rakata taught the ancient King how to craft a pyramid shaped device known as a holocron." Adas's was the first Sith holocron...and considering it's the holocron of the guy the Sith WORSHIPPED AS A GOD...
OH, ad "The Mecrosa order later sought to recover the most sacred holocron." y'know, when talking about Adas's
Adas was so powerful and renowned, he was hailed as a God and fought off the rakata...Holocrons were around before the Dark Lords, you know.Odan Ur's holocron contained 100,000 years worth of knowledge...once more, Kun got a holocron he never used, ooooh! Yoda had a gallery full of them.
And since you're an idiot, I'll say **** off, brat, one time and celebrate my victory.
Celebrate your victory? Hardly.. But you have a tendency to celebrate your victory when your stupidity is apparent and you embarass yourself acting like child, so again..
1. Odan Urr never accessed its secrets as he specifically states "This can ONLY be accessible by a DLOTS.. You lose..
2. If you're going to say that each scan in the comic happens instantly, then you're easier to argue with than I thought.. You lose.
3. You clearly stated that Kun died as soon as he got the holocron, so if you can't understand what you type, it's not my fault. Also, you have no idea why Kun got the Holocron so don't start. Considering the fact that it was only accessible by him and he knew about it, it is 100% logical to suggest he accessed it. Again, logical deduction>your fanboyism.
4. More irrelevant bullshit which simply means you lost the argument
5. Yea, yoda had a full gallery of them. That's as conclusive as "Yoda knows everything".
Again, your denial, fanboyism, lack of common sense, and lack of acceptance of defeat is obvious, so you can go "celebrate" your moral victory, or whatever helps you fall asleep. Your personal attacks, immaturity, and utter stupidity make your posts even more laughable than before.
Tell it to GAOTS: "The holocron has given up its secrets." Once more, exar never accessed it.
No, I said Kun died as soon as he got the info from Ossus. And lesse...Kun destroyed the Holocron to create the Brotherhood...sounds like a fair assumption he got it to destroy it...Consider this:
A. He gets the holocron.
B. Goes to Yavin...surrounded at all times by Jedi who think it's a Jedi holocron
C. Destroys the Holocron after revealing it as Sith holocron
D. Speciifically states this was to create his Brotherhood
Hm, logic again!
The Jedi had numerous Sith holocrons, which only the top masters could access. to learn more of the Dark Side and how to defeat it, Yoda did so on occasion
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Tell it to GAOTS: "The holocron has given up its secrets." Once more, exar never accessed it.
No, I said Kun died as soon as he got the info from Ossus. And lesse...Kun destroyed the Holocron to create the Brotherhood...sounds like a fair assumption he got it to destroy it...Consider this:
A. He gets the holocron.
B. Goes to Yavin...surrounded at all times by Jedi who think it's a Jedi holocron
C. Destroys the Holocron after revealing it as Sith holocron
D. Speciifically states this was to create his BrotherhoodHm, logic again!
The Jedi had numerous Sith holocrons, which only the top masters could access. to learn more of the Dark Side and how to defeat it, Yoda did so on occasion
1. The holocron has given up it's secrets? How conclusive! However, the fact that the holocron can ONLY be accessed only by a DLOTS, that trumps your speculation.
2. Saying Kun never accessed it is more mindless speculation. Considering the fact that there was knowledge that was valuable to him in the holocron, and he was obsessed with ancient sith knowledge, logic>you.
3. Quit making shit up..
It's also too bad that you can't name me even one of these holocrons and where it came from. So once again, logic trumps ambiguity,
In conclusion, you are once again on the losing end, and just because you think it's logic, means absolutely nothing. I don't think you've argued logically once since I've been here.
Since that's been proven false several times, considering Luke's accessed one-while on the Lightside, and Yoda did as well...and numerous Jedi, including Darth Ruin. Before he was a Sith Lord...oh, Atris anyone?
2. More like logic...he got it to destroy it and make slaves of the Jedi. He said as much. He was surrounded by Jedi at all times until he destroyed the Holocron to turn them to the Dark Side...read the comic again
3. Didn't make a thing up. Denial's a funny thing and you succumb to it too often. How about Tom veitch saying Yoda is defintiely on the top? He had a hand in Kun and crafting him...he also created Naga Sadow to an extent and Freedon Nadd. Hell, he helped create the Ancient Empire, even if KJA did most of it
Again, prove what these amulets were, and prove that they weren't only accessible by a DLOTS. Since you can't, and since nobody has magically accessed an unaccesible DLOTS holocron, your point is moot.
Nobody is denying that he got it to destroy it, but you fail to see that logically he did accessible. But its convenient for you because it hurts your argument.
Your last point explains exactly how bad your arguments are and how apparent your fanboyism is. I've already told you you're in denial, stop projecting.
And for the last time, your stupid quotes don't save your arguments, especially if that have absolutely nothing to do with the debate, and i've already dissected your quotes, so Yoda being the best of the lightside means nothing when he combats more powerful darkside combatants. Sorry lightsnake, welcome to reality..
...amulets? And darth Ruin accessed Sith Holocrons, so did many Jedi, Yoda did as well, and Atris. and they're described as 'Sith Holocrons', get it?
Logically he accessed it? When? He was surrounded by twenty Jedi Knights at all times. He got it to destroy it and he did just that.
and no, you dissected nothing. the quote's canon, get over it.
And all sith holocrons are the same? Or are there special ones that are only reserved for DLOTS? Thanks for not making a point..
Prove that he instantly left with the Holocron to Yavin IV. When you can't, realize that adding things that are convenient to your argument does not dictate logic. And your canon quote means nothing, get over it fanboy. Any idiot can see that quote has nothing to do with the power of dark side users. Again it just states he was the most powerful lightside user, that is all. To deduce anything else from it is pure fanboyism and for the last time
Logic>>>>>>>your fanboysm.