Saesee Tiin & Kit Fisto vs. Exar Kun

Ok, if you're arguing that the sky is blue and someone says it's not do you explain to them the numerous gasses in the atmosphere and why the sky is blue or do you drag them outside and make them look at the sky?

Wow lightsnake, perfect analogy.. No really... Except this forum is used for debating because outside of the authors, nobody knows the truth.. So your point is pretty much moot unless you state that you don't know what color the sky is supposed to be... Ridiculous post.

So why not GET the truth?

because that DEFEATS the purpose of this forum, are you not understanding? This forum exists because we do NOT know what is 100% truth but what is conclusive in the movies/books. That is why WE debate. You are sucking the life out of it because you don't want to enhance your logic and debating skills.

Enlightnment's a great thing, innit?

The hell? Care to say that in english and then explain it? At this point you have zero credibility on this forum for the simple fact that you cannot debate. We can ALL go bombard the author's emails with questions that ease our ability to sleep at night, but we choose to argue logically..

And I choose to win. So, in the end, everyone gets what they want

but you DONT win lol that's what youre failing to understand.. Everytime you have no argument and you resort to the authors, NOBODY gives you credit for that. People come here to DEBATE, so I have no clue why YOURE here..

I just debate in a different manner. Don't like it? Tough

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
You can't deny that he was probably one of the most powerful knights in the series though.

Crado now? I can understand Sylvar, but Crado? The man who doesn't even have enough will to fight Exar Kun?

For "one of the most powerful knights", I don't see why he'd be admitting his inferiority and weak will or cowering in fear:

I'd submit Crado is probably one of the most inferior people in TOTJ. Unless, of course, you are going to explain how he gets tooled every single time he ever enters a fight. The man who is supposedly "one of the most powerful knights" certainly doesn't hold his own self in high regard, so I don't know how you do.

Crado is a spineless worm in the big picture. Hell - even Cay "I get my arm chopped off every comic" Qel-Droma, Tott "Small Fry" Donetta, and Sylvar are far ahead of him. Nomi is leagues ahead of him, and so on. He truly is nothing special other than a mindless pawn of Exar Kun. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyways, Exar Kun takes this easily. Sith magic that neither Kit Fisto nor Saesee Tinn have seen? Check. Master lightsaber duelist and prodigy? Check. Unique style and unique lightsaber (short hilted double blade)? Check. Sadow's amulets? Check.

Yep, I sure as hell see them lasting any longer than ten seconds at most.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I just debate in a different manner. Don't like it? Tough

You don't debate, period.. That's your problem.. You have zero debating skills, which is why you turn to other people's arguments, sources, emails, authors..

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Crado now? I can understand Sylvar, but Crado? The man who doesn't even have enough will to fight Exar Kun?

For "one of the most powerful knights", I don't see why he'd be admitting his inferiority and weak will or cowering in fear:

I'd submit Crado is probably one of the most inferior people in TOTJ. Unless, of course, you are going to explain how he gets tooled every single time he ever enters a fight. The man who is supposedly "one of the most powerful knights" certainly doesn't hold his own self in high regard, so I don't know how you do.

Crado is a spineless worm in the big picture. Hell - even Cay "I get my arm chopped off every comic" Qel-Droma, Tott "Small Fry" Donetta, and Sylvar are far ahead of him. Nomi is leagues ahead of him, and so on. He truly is nothing special other than a mindless pawn of Exar Kun. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyways, Exar Kun takes this easily. Sith magic that neither Kit Fisto nor Saesee Tinn have seen? Check. Master lightsaber duelist and prodigy? Check. Unique style and unique lightsaber (short hilted double blade)? Check. Sadow's amulets? Check.

Yep, I sure as hell see them lasting any longer than ten seconds at most.

Well done.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Crado now? I can understand Sylvar, but Crado? The man who doesn't even have enough will to fight Exar Kun?

lol I knew you were going to question this.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama

For "one of the most powerful knights", I don't see why he'd be admitting his inferiority and weak will or cowering in fear:

Well as he himself says, there really is no dishonour in losing to [i]Exar Kun, or even getting tooled and humiliated like he did.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama

I'd submit Crado is probably one of the most inferior people in TOTJ. Unless, of course, [i]you are going to explain how he gets tooled every single time he ever enters a fight. The man who is supposedly "one of the most powerful knights" certainly doesn't hold his own self in high regard, so I don't know how you do.

Crado is a spineless worm in the big picture. Hell - even Cay "I get my arm chopped off every comic" Qel-Droma, Tott "Small Fry" Donetta, and Sylvar are far ahead of him. Nomi is leagues ahead of him, and so on. He truly is nothing special other than a mindless pawn of Exar Kun. Nothing more, nothing less.

Oh I agree with those last points, but it seems that he was in league with Oss Wilum who was claimed to be an 'exceptional' jedi knight and one of the order's most promising students. You have to remember, out of thousands of jedi knights the only one's clearly more powerful were Sylvar, Nomi, Cay and Tott. There were others such as Dace Diath and Oss Wilum who were imo around the same level as him. There were also probably more that didn't feature in the comic (possibly someone like Durron Quel-Droma), but if I were to make a rough estimate, I'd say he was in the top 20, and out of thousands that is pretty impressive. So I don't think it's crazy to consider him one of the most powerful knights at the time, and it certainly doesn't defeat the point I was originally trying to make.

Just to make my point clear, I don't think Crado was crazy powerful or completely uber or anything lol, but I consider the fact that him being in the top (roughly) 20 out of thousands, (maybe even tens of thousands) makes him one of the most powerful jedi knights.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
lol I knew you were going to question this.

Of course I'd question something that's a false claim.

Well as he himself says, there really is no dishonour in losing to Exar Kun, or even getting tooled and humiliated like he did.

Yes, and that only proves his disworth. He admires Exar Kun, hence why he considered it an honor practically.

There were others such as Dace Diath and Oss Wilum who were imo around the same level as him.

Really now? When we haven't even seen him kill/take out anybody? Even Oss Willum at least killing one or two mercenaries puts him above Crado, who we haven't seen do a thing. Other than praise and fail Exar continuously, of course.

I'd say he was in the top 20, and out of thousands that is pretty impressive. So I don't think it's crazy to consider him one of the most powerful knights at the time, and it certainly doesn't defeat the point I was originally trying to make.

How is he in the top 20 when Exar only converted a handful of padawans at most? And out of those padawans, they actually did something (unlike Crado) - kill Jedi Masters.

We haven't even seen anyone else (the other thousands Jedi Knights that were around). Does this mean that because we don't see them, that they are nonexistant/aren't as good as Crado by default? Not at all.

He's the last on the list out of everyone we have seen. How does this make him "one of the most powerful"? You say out of thousands, he must be better than everyone else (assuming you're saying this because we see him). I say: Proof? You can't claim he's better than the thousands we didn't see by default, especially considering he hasn't done jack except:

1.) Fail Exar Kun.
2.) Get his ass beaten.
3.) Die.

Without reading ANY of that I can use common sense and the comics book to state that Crado was a weak, naive, tool. He had absolutely nothing to offer, he showed absolutely nothing, and I think it was Sama who said it, he is the most worthless character next to C3PO

On the contrary, C-3P0 seems to be more useful than Crado.

Information wise, C3PO is about the only SW character Crado can take in a duel.

It's heavily implied and indicated however that he was on their level. I think it's made perfectly clear at one point that he was Exar Kun's most powerful fallen jedi. He was also Vodo's student, he can't have been too bad, I mean why would Vodo train Crado if he was so terrible, when he was already training Exar Kun and Sylvar? There is also the fact that Vodo was a great teacher and it would be unlikely that he would produce such a poor student. However I will try to make a stronger argument by reading through some fo the comics again.

'Yes, and that only proves his disworth. He admires Exar Kun, hence why he considered it an honor practically.'

He admired Exar Kun for a reason.

'We haven't even seen anyone else (the other thousands Jedi Knights that were around). Does this mean that because we don't see them, that they are nonexistant/aren't as good as Crado by default? Not at all.'

I already made it perfectly clear that I have taken this into account.

'How is he in the top 20 when Exar only converted a handful of padawans at most? And out of those padawans, they actually did something (unlike Crado) - kill Jedi Masters.'

I don't get what you mean here. Could you expand?

Holy shit what?! On their level? Exar Kun's most powerful fallen Jedi? What exactly are you smoking?