I don't think in a comic book A list Martial arts experts should be able to be anywhere near the speed required to actually dodge things like bullets or lasers. Spidey has done it more times than I have had hot meals ✅ therefore Spidey's speed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cap's speed
and this seems to be a fairly common trend
Spidey's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cap's strength
Cap's skill>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spidey's skill
Spidey's agility>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cap's agility
Spidey's intelligence>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cap's intelligence
Of course I will concede that Cap beats spidey in terms of skill, tactics and height 😄 But I only see Cap winning 1 or 2/10
Originally posted by willRules
I don't think in a comic book A list Martial arts experts should be able to be anywhere near the speed required to actually dodge things like bullets or lasers.
Its experience and predictive ability that allow them to do that.
They're not dodging the bullet, per say, they're out manuvering the person firing the gun.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Its experience and predictive ability that allow them to do that.They're not dodging the bullet, per say, they're out manuvering the person firing the gun.
No, they're actually dodging the bullet. Regardless of what SHOULD be possible, the comics aren't written that way. Captain America has moved out of the way AFTER bullets have been fired on more than one occasion. He's even been straight up ASKED how he dodges bullets, and his reply was not "I avoid the path of the gun," it was "I see faster."
I agree that street levellers SHOULDN'T be able to dodge bullets by definition.
However, no matter what we WANT to believe, or how we FEEL comic should be written. They aren't, and we can't simply ignore that because we dislike it.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Its experience and predictive ability that allow them to do that.They're not dodging the bullet, per say, they're out manuvering the person firing the gun.
I know, and Spidey has actually dodged a bullet after it left the gun barrel ✅ Because he has Superhuman abilities, Cap may be technically above peak human and in the low level superhuman, but he isn't dodging bullets like that in a comic that isn't C.I.S ridden ✅
Originally posted by willRules
I know, and Spidey has actually dodged a bullet after it left the gun barrel ✅ Because he has Superhuman abilities, Cap may be technically above peak human and in the low level superhuman, but he isn't dodging bullets like that in a comic that isn't C.I.S ridden ✅
It has nothing to do with CIS. Saying "When Spidey dodges a bullet after it leaves the barrel, it's good, but when Cap replicates the same feat, it doesn't count," is quite immature.
Originally posted by Soljer
I agree that street levellers SHOULDN'T be able to dodge bullets by definition.However, no matter what we WANT to believe, or how we FEEL comic should be written. They aren't, and we can't simply ignore that because we dislike it.
Regardless, at their best ability, Cap's best speed would be nowhere near Spidey's best speed ✅
It even says so in the rules.........
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
To say that (For example) in a comic Cap punched Spidey therefore the speed difference isn't that different or therefore Cap's skill compensate for spidey's speed, is an automatic assumption that Cap and Spidey at that moment were performing at their best. Otherwise I could say, when Spidey had Magneto on the ropes with the power cosmic/captain universe powers thingy, it would count because to say otherwise would be ignoring the comic 🙂
Originally posted by willRules
Regardless, at their best ability, Cap's best speed would be nowhere near Spidey's best speed ✅
And you'll prove this...how? Feats? They've done the same things. Showings against one another? You really don't wanna go there, considering that the three times they've actually came to blows, once Spidey was laid out on the ground after talking about how he could barely react to Cap coming after him, another ended up with Spidey launched into the air by an upper cut, and the third ended with Spidey landing a desperate scratch on Cap after being treated like a chump.
Originally posted by willRules
To say that (For example) in a comic Cap punched Spidey therefore the speed difference isn't that different or therefore Cap's skill compensate for spidey's speed, is an automatic assumption that Cap and Spidey at that moment were performing at their best. Otherwise I could say, when Spidey had Magneto on the ropes with the power cosmic, it would count because to say otherwise would be ignoring the comic 🙂
Ermm...rephrase? English, mayhaps?
Originally posted by Soljer
And you'll prove this...how? Feats? They've done the same things. Showings against one another? You really don't wanna go there, considering that the three times they've actually came to blows, once Spidey was laid out on the ground after talking about how he could barely react to Cap coming after him, another ended up with Spidey launched into the air by an upper cut, and the third ended with Spidey landing a desperate scratch on Cap after being treated like a chump.
But that's my point exactly. You just did what I said in the previous posts. How can you prove that in those issues, both Cap and Spidey were fighting to the best of their ability? I will answer it for you, you can't because If in the fight Spidey was fighting to the best of his ability, he would be dodging Cap's punches like he dodges bullets and Cap the same. Spidey would hit Cap with equal force to hitting Carnage. in a comic he wouldn't as Spidey doesn't kill, but that proves my point. It's not the best of his abilities.
Originally posted by Soljer
Ermm...rephrase? English, mayhaps?
I was speaking in English, please don't insult my posts. 🙁
I was merely stating that if you say Cap can hit spidey in a certain comic, then you are assuming both Cap and spidey are fighting at their best and that therefore Cap's speed maybe is as inferior to Spidey's speed as people like myself have suggested. Or maybe you might suggest that the feat in the comic shows Cap's skill overcompensating for Peter's superhuman speed. However you must accept the possibility that Cap or Spidey or both men were not performing at their best and therefore that feat is invalid. Otherwise all you are saying is "Cap fighting really well might be able to beat Spidey if he is fighting really badly".
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I knew you would say that. the Vs comic book rules mention PIS, but its not PIS because the comics show that Cap and Spiderman have similar speed levels but Spiderman is faster.
I was actually referring to the section about blood lust which states that unless otherwise specified each character would be fighting to the best of their ability.
Originally posted by willRules
I don't think in a comic book A list Martial arts experts should be able to be anywhere near the speed required to actually dodge things like bullets or lasers. Spidey has done it more times than I have had hot meals ✅ therefore Spidey's speed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cap's speedand this seems to be a fairly common trend
Spidey's strength>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cap's strength
Cap's skill>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spidey's skill
Spidey's agility>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cap's agility
Spidey's intelligence>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cap's intelligenceOf course I will concede that Cap beats spidey in terms of skill, tactics and height 😄 But I only see Cap winning 1 or 2/10
Wait so Spiderman dodges lots of bullets/lasers so it counts.
Captain America dodges lots of bullets/lasers and it doesn't count?
Yeah...........uh huh.
Also so what if Spidey's inteligence for science is better then Cap's. This isn't a science fair project. This is combat....this is battle. That holds no weight in this topic.
In terms of intelligence, Spidey is WAY more resourceful and a much quicker thinker on his feet than Cap.
Cap, however, has the obvious tactical/strategic intelligence advantage.
So really, it all depends on how you gauge the two types of intelligence. Well-planned out, detailed strategies? Or coming up with amazingly-effective plans on the fly?
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Adaptability on the fly. Cap's the better in that as well IMO.Especially with Cap using the environment to his advantage, but in the arena there's not much to use anyways.
So adapting to Spidermans fighting style. Yeah Caps going to do that better on Parker then Parker doing that on Cap.
Nah, I must disagree. While Cap is great at adapting, it's pretty much part of Spidey's power-set to do so (not really, but you get my drift).
And I never argued that Spidey would try to adapt to Cap's fighting style. That would actually be dump on Pete's part to even try. And in all honesty, even in the comics, Cap should not be able to adapt to Spidey's style, as it can change completely nearly everytime.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Wait so Spiderman dodges lots of bullets/lasers so it counts.Captain America dodges lots of bullets/lasers and it doesn't count?
If you read everything I just posted you will find I already responded to that. I already stated you can't just say Spidey did this, Cap did that. The rules state that both characters must be portrayed to the best of their ability which in short means Spidey overall >>>>> Cap overall. huh.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Also so what if Spidey's inteligence for science is better then Cap's. This isn't a science fair project. This is combat....this is battle. That holds no weight in this topic.
Prove it 🙂
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Your not finishing the rule statement. Whats the rest of it say? Lets see if you can at least do that.
I was only quoting the rule I felt relevant for the topic I was discussing at the time, but I will happily copy and paste the entire set of rules if you can't be bothered to look at them 🙂