cap vs spider-man

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Nah, I must disagree. While Cap is great at adapting, it's pretty much part of Spidey's power-set to do so (not really, but you get my drift).

And I never argued that Spidey would try to adapt to Cap's fighting style. That would actually be dump on Pete's part to even try. And in all honesty, even in the comics, Cap should not be able to adapt to Spidey's style, as it can change completely nearly everytime.

Its pretty much part of Cap's power set as well. Even Black Panther commented on this. Cap should be able to adapt to Cap's fighting style thats the field he is in when it comes to hand to hand combat and the other A listers imo. Park just makes up with it in power.

If you read everything I just posted you will find I already responded to that. I already stated you can't just say Spidey did this, Cap did that. The rules state that both characters must be portrayed to the best of their ability which in short means Spidey overall >>>>> Cap overall. huh.

In stats yes in skill hell no.

Prove it

Thats easy guy this isn't a science fair project.

I was only quoting the rule I felt relevant for the topic I was discussing at the time, but I will happily copy and paste the entire set of rules if you can't be bothered to look at them

Gotch cause it wasn't helping your case.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
In stats yes in skill hell no.

Skills is one of cap's stats. Just because it's one of the very few areas Cap outclasses Spidey in doesn't mean it's exempt from being considered one of his stats 😆

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Thats easy guy this isn't a science fair project.

Two words. Web shooters.

I'm not even gonna bother to refer to the number of times spidey has used his web shooters, post disassembled crossover, they helped him numerous times and were a useful product of, wait for it..........HIS INTELLIGENCE 😱

And I'm not even gonna bother to mention the times Spidey has used his brains to outsmart his opponents or foil their plans, there's simply too many times ✅

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Gotch cause it wasn't helping your case.

What? 😕

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, are you stating that my arguments are not valid? if so please explain why 🙂

Skills is one of cap's stats. Just because it's one of the very few areas Cap outclasses Spidey in doesn't mean it's exempt from being considered one of his stats

Exactly so lets not ignore it considering its aided Cap so well in previous encounters. Heck its aided most martial artists in encounters with Spidey.

Two words. Web shooters.

I'm not even gonna bother to refer to the number of times spidey has used his web shooters, post disassembled crossover, they helped him numerous times and were a useful product of, wait for it..........HIS INTELLIGENCE eek!

And I'm not even gonna bother to mention the times Spidey has used his brains to outsmart his opponents or foil their plans, there's simply too many times

True but Cap has used his intelligence as well. In regards to combat. Fighting particularly Parker has already admitted in that department Cap makes Park look like a fool in combat ability.

Originally posted by willRules
But that's my point exactly. You just did what I said in the previous posts. How can you prove that in those issues, both Cap and Spidey were fighting to the best of their ability? I will answer it for you, you can't because If in the fight Spidey was fighting to the best of his ability, he would be dodging Cap's punches like he dodges bullets and Cap the same.

See, here's the thing, that's nothing more than an assumption... This is kind of circular but: Cap dodges bullets just as effectively as Spiderman.. does that mean that Spiderman therefore can't hit Captain America because he'll dodge everything Spidey throws at him like he does to bullets? See how that logic doesn't really work?

Originally posted by willRules
Spidey would hit Cap with equal force to hitting Carnage. in a comic he wouldn't as Spidey doesn't kill, but that proves my point. It's not the best of his abilities.

Now someone explain to me this: even if Spiderman holds back his strength to keep from hurting others too badly, why does every Spiderman fan assume that he holds back his speed and spider sense as well?
Holding back his power shouldn't affect his ability to dodge or his speed. 😬 Are we to assume that Spiderman LIKES to be hit in the face?

And yet every time we get into these arguments "spiderman holds back" becomes the ultimate defected excuse for him being hit...

It makes no sense.. If he's so good at dodging, then he should dodge good fighters.. unless good fighters play his spider sense false.. and they do.

Originally posted by willRules
I was speaking in English, please don't insult my posts. 🙁

I was merely stating that if you say Cap can hit spidey in a certain comic, then you are assuming both Cap and spidey are fighting at their best and that therefore Cap's speed maybe is as inferior to Spidey's speed as people like myself have suggested.

Yeah, see the problem here is that this argument is contingent on the benefit of the doubt...

There's nothing that really supports that suggestion. The problem isn't only in DIRECT COMPARISONS but also found within their day to day feats as well...

Cap fans could just as easily suggest that in a straight fight Spiderman would never lay a hand on cap, the difference between that suggestion and the one about spiderman being that much faster than cap, is the former is actually rooted in multiple proofs of evidence.

Originally posted by willRules
Or maybe you might suggest that the feat in the comic shows Cap's skill overcompensating for Peter's superhuman speed. However you must accept the possibility that Cap or Spidey or both men were not performing at their best and therefore that feat is invalid. Otherwise all you are saying is "Cap fighting really well might be able to beat Spidey if he is fighting really badly".

cap can hit spiderman.
cap is stunningly fast by spidey's own admission.
cap can take spiderman's hits.
cap vastly out-wieghs spiderman in hand to hand skills by spidey's own admission.
cap's punches are both effective and can numb spidey below the waist in thee hits by spiderman's own admission.

See the major problem is this... While people supporting cap using those feats may very well be assuming that the fighters are at their best during comic battles, and while that may be a fallacy... it's ALSO a fallacy to assume that their "fighting best" would be vastly different from the MULTITUDES of evidence from anything we've seen.

I wonder if Spider-Man was doing his best why didn't he use his cloaking device? And why didn't he use his spider-arms from the start? If I wanted to defeat somebody that I know is a skilled fighter I would use every advantage I have. Spider-Man is conflicted in that fight, not only is he fighting his idol but he is also starting to doubt that his on the right side. And when you doubt your self it affects you're speed, strength and worst of all you make mistakes.

Originally posted by the_satan32
I wonder if Spider-Man was doing his best why didn't he use his cloaking device? And why didn't he use his spider-arms from the start? If I wanted to defeat somebody that I know is a skilled fighter I would use every advantage I have. Spider-Man is conflicted in that fight, not only is he fighting his idol but he is also starting to doubt that his on the right side. And when you doubt your self it affects you're speed, strength and worst of all you make mistakes.

Most of that's attributed to CIS...

In any event I'm not arguing that he indeed WAS fighting at his best.

I wonder if Spider-Man was doing his best why didn't he use his cloaking device? And why didn't he use his spider-arms from the start? If I wanted to defeat somebody that I know is a skilled fighter I would use every advantage I have. Spider-Man is conflicted in that fight, not only is he fighting his idol but he is also starting to doubt that his on the right side. And when you doubt your self it affects you're speed, strength and worst of all you make mistakes.

Exactly and that is who Spiderman is while in character. Holding back and is his own worst enemy at times.

Cap holds back as well. We've seen this many a times. As he even killed a man once with just a simple jab by accident. Heck in that battle Cap was holding back as well trying to convince Parker and leaving the fight as Parker wanted to continue.

But thats the point while there in character Cap has shown to have the advantage against Parker. And thats the rules setting in the fights they must do there best but remain in "character" at the same time.

I actually used to give Spiderman the advantage in character and out. But in character I can no longer give Spidey the advantage against Cap.

Originally posted by jinzin
See, here's the thing, that's nothing more than an assumption... This is kind of circular but: Cap dodges bullets just as effectively as Spiderman.. does that mean that Spiderman therefore can't hit Captain America because he'll dodge everything Spidey throws at him like he does to bullets? See how that logic doesn't really work?

Well yeah I see what your saying and fair enough, but regardless when both characters feats are so similar it would be logical to assume you look at their statistics and spidey outclasses Cap physically in almost every way.

But apart from that, yeah I see your point and I can't really respond to that than other with "Well regardless I still think spidey wins because etc etc" 😄

Originally posted by jinzin
In a comic he wouldn't.. and in the forums he wouldn't either unless otherwise stated, self imposed limitations of CIS are not exempt from these arguments. 😬

Ok fair enough but in that case we know Spidey isn't fighting to the best of his ability ✅

Originally posted by jinzin
Now someone explain to me this: even if Spiderman holds back his strength to keep from hurting others too badly, why does every Spiderman fan assume that he holds back his speed and spider sense as well?
Holding back his power shouldn't affect his ability to dodge or his speed. 😬 Are we to assume that Spiderman LIKES to be hit in the face?

Good question, now we know Spidey has dodged faster things than Cap's fists so either Spidey likes the feel of Cap's tender silk gloves against his skin or maybe Spidey wasn't fighting to the best of hi ability or was holding back to a degree that hindered him somewhat in battle. ✅

Originally posted by jinzin
And yet every time we get into these arguments "spiderman holds back" becomes the ultimate defected excuse for him being hit...
It makes no sense.. If he's so good at dodging, then he should dodge good fighters.. unless good fighters play his spider sense false.. and they do.

Originally posted by jinzin
There's nothing that states they weren't fighting at their best.
It's an assumption either way, but in the end we're left with what happened.. and regardless of whether or not they were at their peaks we seen several things still proven...

cap can hit spiderman.
cap is stunningly fast by spidey's own admission.
cap can take spiderman's hits.
cap vastly out-wieghs spiderman in hand to hand skills by spidey's own admission.
cap's punches are both effective and can numb spidey below the waist in thee hits by spiderman's own admission.

Ok but if we assume Spidey is fighting at his best, were talking able to dodge lasers speed, able to hurt Rhino or stronger strength etc and Cap his fighting at his best, able to dodge lasers speed, able to hurt heavy hitters, are you seriously implying that Cap is fast enough to hit Spidey? Cos I'm inclined to disagree ✅

Originally posted by jinzin
See the major problem is this... While people supporting cap using those feats may very well be assuming that the fighters are at their best during comic battles, and while that may be a fallacy... it's ALSO a fallacy to assume that their "fighting best" would be vastly different from the MULTITUDES of evidence from anything we've seen.

Fair enough, but the only conclusion you can draw from it otherwise is that Cap who may or may not be at his best, can hit spidey here who may or may not be at his best. I see what your saying and I agree to a certain extent, I just think that "Ok their feats are very similar so we need to look at who is considered to be the superior character." I think we should all be in agreement that Spidey is physically superior to Cap, it's just a question of how much ✅

Cap still loses.

Spider man, spiderman, does whatever a spider can 🙂

Originally posted by willRules
Well yeah I see what your saying and fair enough, but regardless when both characters feats are so similar it would be logical to assume you look at their statistics and spidey outclasses Cap physically in almost every way.

Originally posted by willRules
But apart from that, yeah I see your point and I can't really respond to that than other with "Well regardless I still think spidey wins because etc etc" 😄.

Originally posted by willRules
Ok fair enough but in that case we know Spidey isn't fighting to the best of his ability ✅.

Not necessarily true.
Spiderman can perform to the best of HIS abilities when he's in character, but he'll still be subject to CIS...

If we are talking about a character with spiderman's powers but someone who doesn't have emotions and a conscience then yes you would be correct.

Originally posted by willRules
Good question, now we know Spidey has dodged faster things than Cap's fists so either Spidey likes the feel of Cap's tender silk gloves against his skin or maybe Spidey wasn't fighting to the best of hi ability or was holding back to a degree that hindered him somewhat in battle. ✅

Hell nightwing as dodged faster moving things than Spiderman, yet we know that if Spiderman were to hit him it wouldn't be because nightwing wasn't performing the best of his abilities..

the fact is, bullets, and lasers are linear attacks, they only have one line of attack and spiderman can see the beginning of that line and the end of it before it even takes place.. makes it easy to dodge.. but caps fists have strategy and trickery to back them up.. and we've already seen on several occasions that martial arts trickery fakes spidey's spidey sense out hard.

Originally posted by willRules
Ok but if we assume Spidey is fighting at his best, were talking able to dodge lasers speed, able to hurt Rhino or stronger strength etc and Cap his fighting at his best, able to dodge lasers speed, able to hurt heavy hitters, are you seriously implying that Cap is fast enough to hit Spidey? Cos I'm inclined to disagree ✅

Originally posted by willRules
Fair enough, but the only conclusion you can draw from it otherwise is that Cap who may or may not be at his best, can hit spidey here who may or may not be at his best. I see what your saying and I agree to a certain extent, I just think that "Ok their feats are very similar so we need to look at who is considered to be the superior character." I think we should all be in agreement that Spidey is physically superior to Cap, it's just a question of how much ✅

Spitethread.

Spidey is stronger, faster, better reflexes, those nets...

Cap would throw his shield, SPidey would grab it.

Spidey woulg get in close and bitchslap Cap with his superior strenght.

I am writing with Stan Lee right now, as i am friends with his son. He says Spiderman wins this, too!

F-u-c-k-i-n Cap fanboys...!

SOCK

I dont understand what all the spiderman hate is about!? Spiderman can beat firelord really well... heck, was he even breaking a sweat? I think everyone should look back and remember Secret Wars... why is no one bringing that up? What about how he dodges electro all the time? Is that unlogical? He can dodge lightning. Anyway, his speed and sense and webs win.

Cap's eyes move faster than normal humans. That's how he avoids bullets and stuff. He'd probably take down the amazing Spider-man.
Wolverine did in the Wovie - Spider-man saga. At least to a sufficent degree to my taste.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Please please. What were these times. Cap drops Spider-Man on the floor and thats a good fight? I could trip Mike Tyson but that doesn't mean I can whoop his ass

Im just looking through old posts and I noticed this. I cant believe you said that...............

Spider-Man for the win. If Spider-Man goes apeshit, he can tear CA apart in a few seconds.

Too fast and too strong for CA to handle. Anybody who thinks otherwise is fooling himself.

CA is a better fighter and has more experience (not that much experience by the way, they both have loads of experience), but that's about it.

It's funny how people think that their last fight was an actual win for CA... What the hell ? CA did a good job, but he was about to be kicked all over the place, when, of course, the fight was interrupted.

Good thing for CA, because he couldn't beat Spider-Man (who kept coming), was already bleeding and had lost his most important weapon.

Some victory I must say. And I haven't even mentioned the fact that Spider-Man almost worships CA, it didn't feel right fighting CA.

Conclusion : CA good, Spider-Man better.

The only thing funny is how people can look at their last fight and think that Cap was about to get kicked all over the place considering Spidey had landed a single scratch on him, while Cap had tagged Pete several times and even made half of his body go numb.

Also, Captain friggin America is Captain America's most important weapon. As he has said in the past "I am Captain America, the shield is not," he's more than formidable with or without his shield.

Spiderman wins 7/10. Nothing's changed.

The shield IS a very important weapon. Of course he remains dangerous, but he's less dangerous without the shield.

And indeed, half of Peters body went numb. For like 3 seconds... it didn't help good old CA much.