cap vs spider-man

Originally posted by Dinalfos
I understand all that. I'm not saying Cap isn't skilled or anything. And yes, in the Marvel universe he can hang with the likes of Spiderman for a while. That doesn't mean it SHOULD happen. You can't have vastly superhuman (combat)skills without having superhuman physical abilities to support them. He may be a great strategic thinker, but if you don't have the physique to correspond with it, you'll eventually be facing your own limitations. Or at least you should be. Now, Cap may have enhanced physical ablilities, but this is ultimately nullified by Spiderman's powers.

Let's say that Spiderman perfoms a little speed blitzing on captain America, complete with lots of jumping around, quick punches, web shooting(all the while supported by his spider sense)....Now how can Captain America use his skills if he can barely see him move? Let's suppose for a minute that he(cap) has a slight supernatural sense of timing and direction, how is he going to beat someone who has all that and other supernatural abilities to compensate for his lack of "skills"? I know Marvel said he can, but does it make sense?

It makes enough sense to me. Cap has explained his ability to "see faster" than a normal human. He is able to dodge bullets so easily because he can see them move. I think a similar case could be made for spiderman's punches. While I think a speed-bltizing Spider-man would likely put Captain America on a (complete?) defensive, I believe that Captain America would be able to block, dodge, and keep up with him long enough to get into a better position, to (at least try to) turn the tide.

Originally posted by Soljer
It makes enough sense to me. Cap has explained his ability to "see faster" than a normal human. He is able to dodge bullets so easily because he can see them move. I think a similar case could be made for spiderman's punches. While I think a speed-bltizing Spider-man would likely put Captain America on a (complete?) defensive, I believe that Captain America would be able to block, dodge, and keep up with him long enough to get into a better position, to (at least try to) turn the tide.

I'd agree with that though i doubt he could turn the tide if spidey went full bore against Cap.

Originally posted by Sparkz
I'd agree with that though i doubt he could turn the tide if spidey went full bore against Cap.

Not OFTEN, for sure. But I don't think its too far out of Cap's range of abilities to land a nerve strike on an opponent he has studied dutifully. Even if that opponent is speed blitzing. If Cap can get that nerve strike, and (more than likely) slow Pete down a good bit, then Cap won't have to stay on the complete defensive, and then the battle can be turned either way.

I'm still not saying that Cap can take current Spiderman OFTEN, I'm just saying that he isn't outclassed. And that he can at least MATCH pre-other Spiderman, 5/10.

Originally posted by Soljer
It makes enough sense to me. Cap has explained his ability to "see faster" than a normal human. He is able to dodge bullets so easily because he can see them move. I think a similar case could be made for spiderman's punches. While I think a speed-bltizing Spider-man would likely put Captain America on a (complete?) defensive, I believe that Captain America would be able to block, dodge, and keep up with him long enough to get into a better position, to (at least try to) turn the tide.

I wouldn't have a problem with all that, if Marvel had just made him straight superhuman. But they still seem to be sticking to their classic design. And unless Marvel actually believes that peak humans can dodge bullets because they see them coming, it really doesn't make sense. Not even in the Marvel world. I'd much rather see them cop out and make him super.

Originally posted by Soljer
Not OFTEN, for sure. But I don't think its too far out of Cap's range of abilities to land a nerve strike on an opponent he has studied dutifully. Even if that opponent is speed blitzing. If Cap can get that nerve strike, and (more than likely) slow Pete down a good bit, then Cap won't have to stay on the complete defensive, and then the battle can be turned either way.

I'm still not saying that Cap can take current Spiderman OFTEN, I'm just saying that he isn't outclassed. And that he can at least MATCH pre-other Spiderman, 5/10.

I agree but if Spidey is going full bore he may be overwhelmed before he can react.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
I wouldn't have a problem with all that, if Marvel had just made him straight superhuman. But they still seem to be sticking to their classic design. And unless Marvel actually believes that peak humans can dodge bullets because they see them coming, it really doesn't make sense. Not even in the Marvel world. I'd much rather see them cop out and make him super.

I understand, I wish they would stop their initial design as well. He has plenty of feats that put him WELL into "super-human." It also makes it really hard when you are debating someone like Cap against Bruce, or Nightwing, or DareDevil. You have people saying that Cap and Bruce are on the same level, physically, while Cap has shown plenty of superhuman feats, while Bruce has managed to stay about peak human.

Anywho, yeah, it's a cop out for him to 'see faster' and still be human, but that was the explanation that was given. It's what we have to go by, even though neither of us particularly LIKE it as one.

and to Sparkz: I think he'd manage to react, see the comment about 'seeing faster.'

With no PIS spiderman would take Cap. Adding the suit would make it overkill.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
With no PIS spiderman would take Cap. Adding the suit would make it overkill.

Very well formed, concise, and PREcise argument. Though it has been debated for twenty pages, now. It really IS that clear cut. Even though some of those who intially believed Spidey would take this 9/10, had reconsidered down to even 5/10.

-_-.

Anywho.

Originally posted by Soljer
Even though some of those who intially believed Spidey would take this 9/10, had reconsidered down to even 5/10.

Who did that? Were they referring to Classic Spidey?

And my bad, didn't mean to ruin your sarcastic remark. 😛

Dude, Spiderman w/ the suit is probably above class 20 level. Cap is peakhuman. Mismatch. Althogh I wish Cap would beat his *** hard in Civil War.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Who did that? Were they referring to Classic Spidey?

And my bad, didn't mean to ruin your sarcastic remark. 😛

Shhhh.
They may have been <_< >_> 😖hifty:

Heh, anyways.

Read the thread, Darth Martin. There has been plenty of debate over it, and (in my opinion) some very good points made in favor of Cap, not winning, but at least holding his own. It isn't a mismatch. And I doubt any of the debators really want to present their entire (twenty page stretching) argument all over for you, when you haven't really presented anything of substance.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok so what your telling me is that when both Dr Doom and the Leader are trying to kill people and take over the world they are not pushing their intelligence to their max? Yes or No;

If there are no limits to the human mind why do some people have different levels of intellignce. Beacuse in the real world and in the MU there are limits and as you said there appears to be no limits thats just theory.

Marvelprince my point is eventhough they have not been pitted against each other you can compare intelligence by looking at their achievements. The same way you can compare the skills of other characters that have not fought. So can you or can you not compare both Dr Dooms and the Leaders intelligence by comparing what they have achieved?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I don't argue that Cap can bench press 1,100 lbs. That sounds about right. Kicking down steel doors? Aunt May does that in her sleep. Take that as you will, but kicking down steel doors has become the new dodging bullets.

And he pulled a truck? I can pull a truck. They have wheels.

I'll even give Cap the benefit of the doubt and say he can lift, at the most, 1,500 lbs.

Aunt May can kick down steel doors???? You can pull a supply truck through the desert for a long distance...no you cant. I dont think any human can do that.

Metalmanx you are right about what Marvelprince said.

Anyway im a bit late I just wanna see somone tell me that Dr Doom is less intelligent than the Leader.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Aunt May can kick down steel doors???? You can pull a supply truck through the desert for a long distance...no you cant. I dont think any human can do that.

I felt that it was implied that I was kidding about Aunt May kicking down steel doors. It was more of another way of saying almost every hero has done that sometime in their career.

And no, I didn't mean I actually could pull a supply truck very far. I just meant that, especially because it's on wheels, that it's not that superhuman of a feat. And yes, there are plenty of humans who actually can do that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Anyway im a bit late I just wanna see somone tell me that Dr Doom is less intelligent than the Leader.

Ok Dr Doom is less intelligent than the Leader...bye

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I felt that it was implied that I was kidding about Aunt May kicking down steel doors. It was more of another way of saying almost every hero has done that sometime in their career.

And no, I didn't mean I actually could pull a supply truck very far. I just meant that, especially because it's on wheels, that it's not that superhuman of a feat. And yes, there are plenty of humans who actually can do that.

There are plenty of humans that could pull a supply truck for a hundred feet. Maybe even a football field. But NOT through a desert. Especially through that sand.

Anyway, I'm not saying it's a HUGE level feat, either, just that it is still beyond human capabilities.

Originally posted by Soljer
There are plenty of humans that could pull a supply truck for a hundred feet. Maybe even a football field. But NOT through a desert. Especially through that sand.

Anyway, I'm not saying it's a HUGE level feat, either, just that it is still beyond human capabilities.

Its probbaly just comes down to Caps stamina not his strength.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
And yes, there are plenty of humans who actually can do that.

That can pull a supply truck through the desert for long distances...yeah right.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Ok Dr Doom is less intelligent than the Leader...bye

Sparkz your not funny. My point is that Dr Doom does not have superhuman intelligence but can build stuff as advanced as the leaders if not more, this proves that in the Marvel Universe talent and genuis can equal superhuman.

Eventhough they have not gone up against each other you can compare their intelligence by their achievements.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Its probbaly just comes down to Caps stamina not his strength.

Yeah of course...him <<<pulling>>> it has nothing to do with it?

Originally posted by Sparkz
Its probbaly just comes down to Caps stamina not his strength.

Exactly.

Plus, I mean, he's Cap. He HAD to do it to save people. Determination like his can easily aid him in a feat like this.