Originally posted by Soljerawwww and I was totally gettin ready for a good ol' super-multi-battle-post rampage.. damn...
Errm...Jinzin, read the newest few pages. MetalMan already reconsidered his opinion. Arguing things that have been denied isn't going to get anyone anywhere 😬...Though, I did enjoy your rant on "What the hell DO we use, then?"
Originally posted by Tha C-Masterlol.. point taken...
Of course, I agree there, things are almost always like that. I was alot more like that when I came, but I don't really care anymore about one or another in that sense. I think other's just like to argue to be honest. At least the ones who've been here for awhile.
Originally posted by jinzinSome, myself included, draw a greater distinction between what would happen in a comic written by writers who want to make a compelling story, and what the outcome of a fight would be on the forums under standard conditions.
see sorry Alfheim... but unfortunately there is just no winning this kind of argument with spiderman fans... this is why I don't like spiderman fans... (not talking about you marvel prince.. you're alright more often than not)... they are FULL of double standards when they see something they don't like...-we can't use hero vs. hero examples as evidence because they both have to look good for the sake of the story
-we can't use hero vs. villian examples because the villian's always destined to lose
-we can't use random feats because the hero is always supposed to overcome random (bullets, rockets, collapsing building) threats and the comic company wouldn't kill a character in such an unispired way...
-bullets and lazers are the biggest jobbers in comics tho they're not worth using
-characters can always be argued to have been holding back no matter how much evidence is lacking to support the claim or evidence exists TO THE CONTRARY.
- high end feats can be called PIS, no matter how many times performed
-low end feats can be called PIS, no matter how many times repeated
- stats only count when they fit the fan's perception of the character... if they don't then they're innacurate (i.e. namor)so then what DO we use to give these battles a winner? 😬
I mean they have stated attributes and abilities but the fact is if those stated limitations aren't really they're limitations over and over again in the comics then the problem of credibility arises.. which is more acceptable as evidence.. which is less...
going by described powers we can clearly see that spiderman is superhuman and cap is a human but described powers don't take into account important things.. for instance... described powers don't take into account the fact that captain america defies human limitation in almost 90% of his feats and showings.... so then should these descriptions still count? darkcrawler doesn't seem to think so and no one argues with him there.
these descriptions also don't indicate to the extent which some powers work.. okay we know that spiderman is fast and has a spider sense.. that doesn't automatically mean he could dodge every bullet coming at him from 6 gunmen at pointblank... it just means he would know that the danger was coming and try to move out of the way but probably still get hit by the faster than sound bullets coming at him... the only way we know he can do what we know the spider sense allows him to do is through comic book evidence.... so where do we draw the line on when to stop using it?.. one can't call EVERYTHING that goes against their argument PIS or it looks like you're copping out... and if none of this is credible than why are we here?I agree with you though Alfy, comic books are these characters' lifes.. they should be subject to what's happened to them in the course of their lives. (there are really extremet example of PIS that should be exempt sure.... this however isn't onew of those)
It's your prerogative to draw a lesser distinction, but don't play martyr.
In a comic book Flash can be taken down by Deathstroke, WW can lasso Zoom and Batman can box WW's ears. Captain America can fight Namor, and beat Iceman.
In the forums I really don't see any of that happening. Do you?
Originally posted by Metalmanx
What did I reconsider again? I've been away for a couple of hours, haha.
That Spidey, Iron or Classic, would take Cap for 9/10.
Originally posted by jinzin
even though I've made the same points that soljer just made countless times before?.... 🤨I hate you arahan 😂
Shhh, I'm more loveable. 😉.
Originally posted by jinzin
awwww and I was totally gettin ready for a good ol' super-multi-battle-post rampage.. damn...
I know, I felt it coming on.
Originally posted by xmarksthespothalf of the feats you just gave to support your example are subject to circumstantial evidence.. so given those same circumstances.. yes....
Some, myself included, draw a greater distinction between what would happen in a comic written by writers who want to make a compelling story, and what the outcome of a fight would be on the forums under standard conditions.It's your prerogative to draw a lesser distinction, but don't play martyr.
In a comic book Flash can be taken down by Deathstroke, WW can lasso Zoom and Batman can box WW's ears. Captain America can fight Namor, and beat Iceman.
In the forums I really don't see any of that happening. Do you?
Originally posted by jinzinI.e. the stronger/more powerful opponent wasn't using the extent of their abilities :/ I meant if any of those fights Deathstroke/Flash, WW/Batman, Captain America/Iceman were on the forums...
half of the feats you just gave to support your example are subject to circumstantial evidence.. so given those same circumstances.. yes....
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I.e. the stronger/more powerful opponent wasn't using the extent of their abilities :/ I meant if any of those fights Deathstroke/Flash, WW/Batman, Captain America/Iceman were on the forums...
And he meant, if the circumstances were the same:
Deathstroke with TONS of prep, Iceman acting like a total idiot, Et Cetera.
Originally posted by xmarksthespotbecause you asked if these things would happen... well they happened to being with WITH CIRCUMSTANCES.... so yes... given circumstances they could happen again.... you should have used better examples.. like wolverine regrowing from a skeleton in 2 minutes sans outside factors.. no I don't see that happening.. unfortunately this topic (as I said before) isn't akin to that kind of extreme example so...
And how is that relevant to a forum fight under standard conditions pertaining to my original question.
Originally posted by Tha C-Masterwouldn't he though.. i mean CIS still applies and that's more cis than anything... not that I don't get what you're trying to say though...
Aside from prep, Iceman won't be a total idiot on the forums, so that's exempt. Also things like forgetting they can fly and severly slowing a character down and weakening them.The ol' Cis pis argument.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
And how is that relevant to a forum fight under standard conditions pertaining to my original question.
They ARE subject to forum conditions if the original poster says "Deathstroke gets a few months to prepare for his fight with Flash" or "Iceman has CIS on, and acts like a complete retard"
Then, yeah, sure, Cap could take it to Iceman, and Deathstroke could beat the Flash.
However, unless the original poster mentions that, Deathstroke and Cap are TERRIBLY outclassed.
Originally posted by jinzinThe context of my original question was with regard to what happens in comics vs what happens in a standard conditions fight in the forum. Not what would happen in a forum fight "with stipulations" e.g.
because you asked if these things would happen... well they happened to being with WITH CIRCUMSTANCES.... so yes... given circumstances they could happen again.... you should have used better examples.. like wolverine regrowing from a skeleton in 2 minutes sans outside factors.. no I don't see that happening.. unfortunately this topic (as I said before) isn't akin to that kind of extreme example so...
I think Ben is highly underrated here. I mean, in the Superman/FF crossover, Ben had a great showing against Cyborg Supes, who is at least at Superman-level, but just so i dont do a repeat thread of everyone saying Ben would be dead in seconds im adding special stipulations to give Ben more of a chance. First, Superman cannot use his eye beams, speed blitz, or Ice Breath/Super Breath. Second, Superman has one hand tied behind his back by an 1rst-grade-adamantium Coil. Third, Superman cannot give Ben a ring out, such as punching or throwing him too far away from the fight to continue, and there is no using the Sun either to throw/hit Ben into. Fourth, Superman gives Ben 2 free shots to start off the fight, and Ben can use whatever he wants for those fights, such as dropping large things on him, hitting him with objects, etc. And finally, Ben gets 3 hours of prep time help with Reed while Superman gets a half-hour of prep time help with Bruce.
One can always apply stipulations. But that is not my question.
Originally posted by SoljerEven with CIS explain how Captain America beats Iceman. He's still just living water. 😬
They ARE subject to forum conditions if the original poster says "Deathstroke gets a few months to prepare for his fight with Flash" or "Iceman has CIS on, and acts like a complete retard"Then, yeah, sure, Cap could take it to Iceman, and Deathstroke could beat the Flash.
However, unless the original poster mentions that, Deathstroke and Cap are TERRIBLY outclassed.
"I think Ben is highly underrated here. I mean, in the Superman/FF crossover, Ben had a great showing against Cyborg Supes, who is at least at Superman-level, but just so i dont do a repeat thread of everyone saying Ben would be dead in seconds im adding special stipulations to give Ben more of a chance. First, Superman cannot use his eye beams, speed blitz, or Ice Breath/Super Breath. Second, Superman has one hand tied behind his back by an 1rst-grade-adamantium Coil. Third, Superman cannot give Ben a ring out, such as punching or throwing him too far away from the fight to continue, and there is no using the Sun either to throw/hit Ben into. Fourth, Superman gives Ben 2 free shots to start off the fight, and Ben can use whatever he wants for those fights, such as dropping large things on him, hitting him with objects, etc. And finally, Ben gets 3 hours of prep time help with Reed while Superman gets a half-hour of prep time help with Bruce."
The post from armando? 😆
Hilarious
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Even with CIS explain how Captain America beats Iceman. He's still just living water. 😬
I'm really not sure. He seems to get taken out often enough in comics, though. How does he get taken out when he DOES act like an idiot? Meh. Maybe he'll just give up 😛 .
Seriously though, I'm not about to argue FOR Captain America in the face of Iceman. Jesus. I've argued for Iceman often enough to know exactly what he's capable of.
But regardless.